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Skyfaller

DDs and spotting XP : Nonexistent

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WG,

 

Run this scenario through your 'balanz' checksums: 

- A DD keeps most of the entire enemy team spotted from the middle of the battle's duration until the very end. 

- Because of this, that DD's team was able to maneuver and position accordingly and fire on ships behind islands and prevented red BBs from relocating by tossing torps and being a threat on the rear-side flank. 

- Only a few DD torps connected and he took out a single enemy DD that was wounded and trying to flank. 

-  Battle ends in victory for his team and very few losses on his side thanks to his spotting and threat efforts. This DD is at the very bottom of the team contributions, damage, credit and xp wise. 

 

This is an issue that has been going on for YEARS and you (WG) refuse to address it. A DD's role is to be the eyes of the fleet, to torpedo and to capture flags if they can. Some do it by gunboating, others by torpedo-boating. Neither type is getting any benefit from spotting for team. 

 

On the flip side, this same DD can just ignore spotting for team and just sit behind an island firing HE at whatever someone else spots, focus on raw damage via guns and torpedo...his team can get steamrolled because they blind... and on DEFEAT he will get far more credits and XP than the DD on the WINNING team above listed who did his JOB RIGHT and made huge contribution to the win. 

 

So it has to be asked.. just what is so hard, difficult, perplexing to you devs to give destroyers a significant increase in xp/credit for spotting/team damage inflicted ? It should , LITERALLY, exceed damage output/kill rewards and should be higher than capturing a point. 

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8 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

WG,

 

Run this scenario through your 'balanz' checksums: 

- A DD keeps most of the entire enemy team spotted from the middle of the battle's duration until the very end. 

- Because of this, that DD's team was able to maneuver and position accordingly and fire on ships behind islands and prevented red BBs from relocating by tossing torps and being a threat on the rear-side flank. 

- Only a few DD torps connected and he took out a single enemy DD that was wounded and trying to flank. 

-  Battle ends in victory for his team and very few losses on his side thanks to his spotting and threat efforts. This DD is at the very bottom of the team contributions, damage, credit and xp wise. 

 

This is an issue that has been going on for YEARS and you (WG) refuse to address it. A DD's role is to be the eyes of the fleet, to torpedo and to capture flags if they can. Some do it by gunboating, others by torpedo-boating. Neither type is getting any benefit from spotting for team. 

 

On the flip side, this same DD can just ignore spotting for team and just sit behind an island firing HE at whatever someone else spots, focus on raw damage via guns and torpedo...his team can get steamrolled because they blind... and on DEFEAT he will get far more credits and XP than the DD on the WINNING team above listed who did his JOB RIGHT and made huge contribution to the win. 

 

So it has to be asked.. just what is so hard, difficult, perplexing to you devs to give destroyers a significant increase in xp/credit for spotting/team damage inflicted ? It should , LITERALLY, exceed damage output/kill rewards and should be higher than capturing a point. 

I think at more an issue is the actual spotting mechanics, especially with regard to how they interact with firing guns.

You spot the enemy, your teammates fire (and are detected by the enemy normally without a spotter), enemy now fires at the friendly ships that just fired (and are now detected normally without a spotter) . Now you aren't getting credit for spotting anything, because both teams can see each other without your help, at least until someone goes dark.

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Just because a DD spots a ship first, doesn't mean its the only one spotting that ship.

 

Besides, being the only class that can semi-reliably get caps, DDs have more than enough ways to get exp that do not require damage or spotting.

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15 minutes ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Just because a DD spots a ship first, doesn't mean its the only one spotting that ship.

 

Besides, being the only class that can semi-reliably get caps, DDs have more than enough ways to get exp that do not require damage or spotting.

Shooting down aircraft will give a DD XP points too.

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5 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Shooting down aircraft will give a DD XP points too.

Dem be fightun' wuds.

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10 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Shooting down aircraft will  BARELY give a DD XP points too.

you forgot a word there....

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11 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Shooting down aircraft will give a DD XP points too.

1 plane = 1 XP (approx)

Not false, and not at all a relevant XP accumulator.

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Just now, neptunes_wrath said:

you forgot a word there....

The fighter consumables that get shot down easy seem to give you the same XP as other aircraft.

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1 hour ago, Skyfaller said:

WG,

 

Run this scenario through your 'balanz' checksums: 

- A DD keeps most of the entire enemy team spotted from the middle of the battle's duration until the very end. 

- Because of this, that DD's team was able to maneuver and position accordingly and fire on ships behind islands and prevented red BBs from relocating by tossing torps and being a threat on the rear-side flank. 

- Only a few DD torps connected and he took out a single enemy DD that was wounded and trying to flank. 

-  Battle ends in victory for his team and very few losses on his side thanks to his spotting and threat efforts. This DD is at the very bottom of the team contributions, damage, credit and xp wise. 

 

This is an issue that has been going on for YEARS and you (WG) refuse to address it. A DD's role is to be the eyes of the fleet, to torpedo and to capture flags if they can. Some do it by gunboating, others by torpedo-boating. Neither type is getting any benefit from spotting for team. 

 

On the flip side, this same DD can just ignore spotting for team and just sit behind an island firing HE at whatever someone else spots, focus on raw damage via guns and torpedo...his team can get steamrolled because they blind... and on DEFEAT he will get far more credits and XP than the DD on the WINNING team above listed who did his JOB RIGHT and made huge contribution to the win. 

 

So it has to be asked.. just what is so hard, difficult, perplexing to you devs to give destroyers a significant increase in xp/credit for spotting/team damage inflicted ? It should , LITERALLY, exceed damage output/kill rewards and should be higher than capturing a point. 

Just spotting doesn't earn much but a mix of spotting and doing damage does.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200711/na_week/average_class.html

Increasing experience for spotting would require a reduction somewhere else.

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1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

Just spotting doesn't earn much but a mix of spotting and doing damage does.

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20200711/na_week/average_class.html

Increasing experience for spotting would require a reduction somewhere else.

Don’t forget defense ribbons. Those seem to be the only thing that can explain the unexpectedly high xp I get in some otherwise mediocre games.

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Just now, Estimated_Prophet said:

Don’t forget defense ribbons. Those seem to be the only thing that can explain the unexpectedly high xp I get in some otherwise mediocre games.

Also where you and/or enemy ships you engage are. I have gotten huge experience with terrible damage and the only thing I could figure was the ships I was fighting or myself were in or near the cap.

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12 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

... ... Increasing experience for spotting would require a reduction somewhere else.

why? not arguing, would like to hear your reasoning...  thanks

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47 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Shooting down aircraft will give a DD XP points too.

:fish_aqua:... Bad bait, try worms.

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1 hour ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

Besides, being the only class that can semi-reliably get caps, DDs have more than enough ways to get exp that do not require damage or spotting.

DDs are historically the lowest XP earners in the game, as well as the least survivable ship type.

37 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

The fighter consumables that get shot down easy seem to give you the same XP as other aircraft.

Would that be little, or none?

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11 minutes ago, Spud_butt said:

why? not arguing, would like to hear your reasoning...  thanks

Because while they have the lowest average experience it is not by much even though their damage is the lowest by a wide margin. The devs it seems want ships to do more than just spot.

 

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3 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Because while they have the lowest average experience it is not by much even though their damage is the lowest by a wide margin. The devs it seems want ships to do more than just spot.

 

the traditional roles for DDs are far more challenging when there is a CV or two in battle, and there seems to be a lot of that happening. as soon as those planes are airborne, the first priority for DDs is to stay alive. this typically equals retreating from spotting positions, or capping. IF you stay afloat long enough, you might be able to get some spotting done later (when it really counts, but the XP will be the same), even some damage (again, for wins this is huge, for XP, seems to count the same). but this is going to be dependent on the red CV, if he wants you sunk, there's not much you can do to spot, cap, or contest. or even defend yourself.

if there's no CVs, there's magical radar that can see thru islands. DDs can't see thru islands. this has been beaten to death in the forum (see other threads about DDs suiciding), and DDs continue to get beaten to death in battle. the response to radar is to know every ship that might have radar, it's range, duration, and location of those ships. which means a lot of research, requires spotting, which can get you sunk. oh, and radio location. so if you are not located, and find yourself backing into a cap, so you can run and hope, you are still moving out of spotting and cap or contest range. if that radar ship is behind an island you can't see thru (like most of them are) your recourse is to....  survive till later.

i agree that damage and spotting near caps seems to reward more XP. maybe it's my imagination? maybe it's because when it does happen, it's late game, and that would indicate the chance to do more damage?? this also seems to effect other classes, so again, the DD is not on the receiving end of a buff??? don't know, that's a level of game mechanics i don't want to spend the time investigating.

is spotting and surviving it getting more challenging? HELL, YES!! should XP awarded reflect that? WHY NOT?? does there really need to be a reduction elsewhere? well, no, not really. but that's my opinion. hope it's considered.

i have no problems with having or playing a class that requires high levels, and more skill to play, even in order to be average. I do object that some nation's lines of DDs continue in a downgraded state compared to other classes. particularly because years ago there was torp soup, and some BB drivers complained about it, and still are.

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37 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Because while they have the lowest average experience it is not by much even though their damage is the lowest by a wide margin. The devs it seems want ships to do more than just spot.

 

Yes but this is the class whose ROLE is to SPOT when there are no CV's .. and subs arent going to do the job as well or quickly given their low speeds. 

 

Since DDs do not have secondary guns.. why not let them use the secondary gun target designator (manual secondaries) to highlight a target ship to spot and let that DD 'grab' the spot xp from that target..and give the target a debuff equivalent to the basic silver flags of -3% stealth/+4% enemy dispersion (aka the DD's designated target literally removes that camo's effect worth). That way DD is helping team, designating ONE target and gets spotting xp. 

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FTR  I LOVE playing my DDS.. BECAUSE it is hard.  That said.

12km Radars  , ships with 90 knt torps.. HE spammers that can kill a DD in 8 seconds,  Sonars.   CVs !!!

you know, all the  reasons that everyone else wont come close enough to support the DDs they are expecting to do all the work.

Well DDs should get MAJOR bonus in the new meta where everyone else hides in shelter with many times more HP while expecting the most fragile class to go out in the OPEN to spot , Cap and defend.

Only a person who never plays DDs could argue against a even small boost.

How about 200XP for every time someone cries for spotting,  capping or help of any kind from a DD in chat

20,000 if it's coming from a back line island humper!

Spotting should be valued more . Especially when you are out in the open spotting and most of the ships you are spotting for WILL NOT FIRE!

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5 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

How about 200XP for every time someone cries for spotting,  capping or help of any kind from a DD in chat

20,000 if it's coming from a back line island humper!

Spotting should be valued more . Especially when you are out in the open spotting and most of the ships you are spotting for WILL NOT FIRE!

hi Col_Nasty,

you have my hearty endorsement!

thurs nite i was in battle, and spotted for a BB that promptly shot the island he was hiding behind, got detected (LoL) and sunk in short order because the entire red fleet was within range. guess who got blamed for that?

to his credit, he DID FIRE!!

:o)

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2 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

It should , LITERALLY, exceed damage output/kill rewards and should be higher than capturing a point. 

Why should it?

Capturing a point and killing ships both directly contribute to the win conditions (1000pts first or 0 enemy ship left). 300k spotting damage doesn't guarantee you a win.

Capturing a point and killing ships are the best evidence of you actively playing the game. Spotting isn't - an AFK DD at spawn can have thousands of spotting damage.

 

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1 hour ago, Skyfaller said:

Yes but this is the class whose ROLE is to SPOT when there are no CV's .. and subs arent going to do the job as well or quickly given their low speeds. 

 

Since DDs do not have secondary guns.. why not let them use the secondary gun target designator (manual secondaries) to highlight a target ship to spot and let that DD 'grab' the spot xp from that target..and give the target a debuff equivalent to the basic silver flags of -3% stealth/+4% enemy dispersion (aka the DD's designated target literally removes that camo's effect worth). That way DD is helping team, designating ONE target and gets spotting xp. 

True but the devs appear to want DD's to cause damage too. Too much of a buff to experience for spotting damage and we are where WoT is with people never firing a shot and topping the experience chart. Also as I said while they are the lowest in experience it is not by much about 8.5% to the top earner for the higher tier DD's even though their damage is much lower 44%. A buff to their experience earning abilities is in order but it can't be to big as that would be unbalancing.

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

True but the devs appear to want DD's to cause damage too. Too much of a buff to experience for spotting damage and we are where WoT is with people never firing a shot and topping the experience chart. Also as I said while they are the lowest in experience it is not by much about 8.5% to the top earner for the higher tier DD's even though their damage is much lower 44%. A buff to their experience earning abilities is in order but it can't be to big as that would be unbalancing.

I have to wonder how much of that is the actual capabilities of the ship, or the suicidal tendencies of DD's bringing the average down?

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6 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

DDs have more than enough ways to get exp that do not require damage or spotting.

 

Caps and spotting act as a multiplier. Having 3 solo cap with poor damage will barely gives you a small amount of XP.

 

0*3= 0*100=^0*1 000 000 000=0

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3 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

I have to wonder how much of that is the actual capabilities of the ship, or the suicidal tendencies of DD's bringing the average down?

I wouldn't say suicidal but mistakes by a DD player are punished hard and fast but then cruisers tend to go poof when they make mistakes too and their average damage numbers are much higher.

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5 hours ago, Spud_butt said:

why? not arguing, would like to hear your reasoning...  thanks

Why?

Because I can yolo into a cap, laucn a wave of torpedoes off, only 1 hits, causes flooding which he doesn't repair because its only 1 flood, either cancel the cap getting me a ribbon for it, or getting the cap getting me a ribbon for it, while getting experience taking the cap.. and die in the process all within the first 3 minutes of a game, and literally come out top 4 on the team for doing literally nothing useful...

 

DD's have the most insanely easy and mass amount of exp potential on their side.. Getting top 3-4 on the team is a cake walk no matter what you do because of how OP the cap ribbons are, both canceling and taking them.

 

In-fact, i can take 1 cap wich isn't too hard to do in a DD, then sail around "spotting" and literally only spotting while maybe taking a few potshots to set 1 or 2 fires.. and go dark again.. and I'll still get top 3 on the team for literally doing nothing of real value (as most of those "spotted" ships didn't even need me to spot.. They got spotted by me, but would of been spotted anyway when they started shooting. So I was essentially take xp I again didn't do jack to actually deserve).

 

 

 

 

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