Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Ellyh

Making a Pan Europe BB tree

19 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

145
[DRAH]
Members
370 posts
9,130 battles

With the aim of trying to keep things as real as possible I think the following ships could be doable All ships from T3-T6 actually served in one navy or another and T7 and T8 are variants of ships that actually served only T9 and T10 would need to be fantasy.

T3) Espania, (Spain) 8 x 305mm but only 6 on the broadside and 19.5k speed. Acually built, looks like a smaller Bellerophon
T4) Teggetoff (Austria Hungry) Sister of Viribus Unitis  downgraded to T4 where is actually should live 12 x 305 20k . Actually built
T5) Vasilefs Konstantinos (Greece) Sister of french Bretaigne class. 10 x 340mm 20k (Never completed because of WW1)
T6) Yavuz, Sultain Suliem (Ottoman) Former German Moltke class BC 10 x 280mm 28k Actually built
T7) Design 1047 (Dutch) Basically a planned Scharnhorst variant with no torps but better speed. 9 x 283mm, 34k
T8) Variant Roma (Spain) 9 x 380mm 30k planned but not laid down to have been built in Spain.
T9/T10 imaginary ships probably taking a dutch design aesthetic as the only power likely to be able to desire such ships at that date.

Bonus Premium T6)  Sultan Osman-i-Evvel (Ottoman) former Brazillian Rio De Jeneiro 14 x 305mm, 22k actually built as HMS Agincourt and would be easy to retrofit with imaginary engine and AA upgrades due to massive size and length to make into a special Premim. Made a premium as doesn't fit in the main line. Could also be sold in alternate UK version similar to Boise and Novembre de Julio

 

 

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,090
[SSG]
Alpha Tester
5,035 posts
11,620 battles

Slight problem - at last check Wargaming still has the rule that basically - gun caliber needs to be consistent/go up as tier increases, and while that is maybe fudged a bit in Pan-Asia DD's and Pan-Europe - that's a nearly negligible difference. It's why Gnei doesn't even have a 283 mm option as the base guns (even though many lobbied for it) and the only reason Mogami has kept the 155 mm guns is that A: she predated solidification of the rule and B: the absolute riots removing them threatened. 

I mean, at this point between subs, CV rework, the joke of an American BB split - never say never though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7,846
[GWG]
[GWG]
Supertester
26,431 posts
14,165 battles

I think that a Pan American BB tree is more viable and that would lead to the Almirante Cochrane as a premium. Yes I want that ship because no other foreigner has had five ships named after him by another country.

Edited by BrushWolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,493 posts
10,860 battles

i say give the tier 10 12 460mm guns that are very accurate and make sure the continuing theme of EU dd passes onto the BB with very good anti potato cv AA.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
145
[DRAH]
Members
370 posts
9,130 battles
1 hour ago, WanderingGhost said:

Slight problem - at last check Wargaming still has the rule that basically - gun caliber needs to be consistent/go up as tier increases, and while that is maybe fudged a bit in Pan-Asia DD's and Pan-Europe - that's a nearly negligible difference. It's why Gnei doesn't even have a 283 mm option as the base guns (even though many lobbied for it) and the only reason Mogami has kept the 155 mm guns is that A: she predated solidification of the rule and B: the absolute riots removing them threatened. 

I mean, at this point between subs, CV rework, the joke of an American BB split - never say never though. 

The UK BB line ignores that rule as well, it goes 13.5", 15", 14" 15" 16"  with the treaty limited KGV. As to the Gneisenau being a 15" ship that is because otherwise it is identical to the Premium Scharnhorst and being more famous you can sell more of the Scharnhorst as a premium than the Gneisenau ever would.

Edited by Ellyh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32,557
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
24,162 posts
19,031 battles

Besides the gun caliber thing, 1047 has worse armor than Scharnhorst, lower ROF than Scharnhorst and no torpedoes, and you put her at the same tier as Scharnhorst?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
145
[DRAH]
Members
370 posts
9,130 battles
10 hours ago, Lert said:

Besides the gun caliber thing, 1047 has worse armor than Scharnhorst, lower ROF than Scharnhorst and no torpedoes, and you put her at the same tier as Scharnhorst?

The wiki article didn't mention those issues are there other designs that would work better here?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32,557
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
24,162 posts
19,031 battles
4 minutes ago, Ellyh said:

The wiki article didn't mention those issues

I've done a lot of research on 1047. As a BB she'd work well at T6.

5 minutes ago, Ellyh said:

are there other designs that would work better here?

Not that I'm aware of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
145
[DRAH]
Members
370 posts
9,130 battles

@Lert Maybe then my line should boot the Bretaigne clone out as boring and drop Sultan down to 5 and put 1047 at 6 and then trawl the Spanish/Greek/Sweedish archives for a napkin with a sketch that would fit at T7.

That would also make the gun calibre progression better at 305, 305, 280, 280, 380 as the difference between 305 and 280mm is nothing in game terms, it would also allow the theme of the line to be fast, relatively light armour and smallish guns for the tier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32,557
[HINON]
Alpha Tester
24,162 posts
19,031 battles

I like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
528
[GRAVE]
Members
1,272 posts
18,801 battles
15 hours ago, Ellyh said:

T6) Yavuz, Sultain Suliem (Ottoman) Former German Moltke class BC 10 x 280mm 28k Actually built

That's basically a T5 ship at best. Even then, it'd still be on the weaker side of T5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,325
[SIM]
Members
4,935 posts
8,014 battles

Viribus Unitis already packs a lot of firepower with a rather useful turret configuration at tier V. To put her sister at tier IV you’d have to gut her reload, her accuracy, or both. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
829
[WOLFC]
Members
1,887 posts
9,956 battles

Where would this line sit within the BB styles?

 

UK burns with heals

German brawls with hydro

Russians tank good at medium

French fast with reload

(IJN & US  are legacy lines)

 

What is missing in a line? 
 

Radar? Smoke?

 

What's the hook to make them interesting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
145
[DRAH]
Members
370 posts
9,130 battles
22 minutes ago, Anonymous50 said:

Where would this line sit within the BB styles?

 

What's the hook to make them interesting?

A) You get a whole bunch of classic ships currently missing from the game

B) they would be fast agile, smaller gun ships generally on the small side for the teir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
145
[DRAH]
Members
370 posts
9,130 battles
42 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Viribus Unitis already packs a lot of firepower with a rather useful turret configuration at tier V. To put her sister at tier IV you’d have to gut her reload, her accuracy, or both. 

I would be ok with that to make her fit at Tier 4, as she is kinda squishy at Tier 5 with her small Health pool. She is a classic Tier 4.5 ship :Smile-_tongue:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
63 posts
1,780 battles

While I do like this idea, and I quite like the ship selection, I feel that a Pan-Euro BB tree should incorporate some of the European Coastal Defense ships like the Sverige-class. Now, I know that doing so would outright break the gun caliber rule, but in doing so, it might just create a line gimmick. You would have to give these sorts of ships a noticeable speed boost, but instead of relying on high alpha and slow reloads, you offset the lower gun calibers with a high (for BBs) rate of fire and some AP shell shenanigans (lower-than-average penetration but high speed retention over range and a quick fuse-arming time) that would facilitate consistent, lower-damage penetrating hits on other BBs (probably from upper-belt hits and even superstructure hits) and more well-armored CAs.

 

Still, overall, I do like the ideas put forward here, and the selection of ships is great!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
145
[DRAH]
Members
370 posts
9,130 battles

The Sverige is basically a very small pre-dreadnought with marginal armor and would be T2 just like Mikasa. Also given her age any rate of fire gimmick to make her competitive at anything other than T3 would be less historically accurate than the submerged speed of the T6 submarines in the recent submarine mode. She weighed in at 1/3 of the mass of HMS dreadnought (~7000 tons) which would leave her with a pitiful HP pool as HP is roughly proportional to Displacement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
63 posts
1,780 battles
59 minutes ago, Ellyh said:

The Sverige is basically a very small pre-dreadnought with marginal armor and would be T2 just like Mikasa. Also given her age any rate of fire gimmick to make her competitive at anything other than T3 would be less historically accurate than the submerged speed of the T6 submarines in the recent submarine mode. She weighed in at 1/3 of the mass of HMS dreadnought (~7000 tons) which would leave her with a pitiful HP pool as HP is roughly proportional to Displacement.

A completely fair point, and you’re absolutely right, there’s no way that she could be any sort of high-tier ship or that she could possess anything approaching same-tier durability. That said, having her as the T3 wouldn’t be the worst idea, and if the line gimmick were something in the vein of “low HP and small gun caliber in exchange for excellent maneuverability and interesting AP performance,” she would be a nice way of introducing the line character. I’ll admit to bringing her up primarily for having a soft spot for the class, and just a general liking of Coastal Defense ships in general. :)

 

Still, the line gimmick of a hypothetical Pan-Euro BB line (and a Pan-America BB line, something near and dear to my heart) does bear consideration, and the ship selection you suggested does offer some fascinating ideas...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,065
[-TAF-]
Alpha Tester
1,184 posts

Sverige would fit better in as a roughly tier 4-5 cruiser in a style more similar to Graf Spee at tier 6, her class are more then fast enough to outrun most BBs around her tier (23-24 knots) and she can bite hard for a cruiser with 11" main guns at 15 sec reload.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×