Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Learux

CV imbalance

35 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

987
[RKLES]
Members
805 posts

Can we at least MM  the CV's.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

  • Cool 3
  • Boring 6
  • Meh 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
980
[A-I-M]
Members
2,994 posts
21,990 battles
4 minutes ago, Learux said:

Can we at least MM  the CV's.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

This has been true ab origine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,674
[INTEL]
Members
13,036 posts
35,974 battles

The devs want collapses and crappy games. The in-game experience is not relevant to them. 

What is relevant is getting players back in the queue ASAP. When there is a disparity between CVs, that leads to a crappy steamroll game, which they love. CVs shorten games and lead to collapses, as the devs themselves have observed -- one of them even said the recent clan battle season was more dynamic since games were shorter. Hahahahahaha.

Numerous other game aspects support the generation of crappy, unfun steamrolls: the two tier MM spread, the choked, channeled maps, detonations, etc.

That is why the CV disparity will never be addressed even though anyone who actually cared about game play would make it a priority.  

  • Cool 9
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1
  • Meh 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
110 posts
5,438 battles

I assume you are talking about random battles, which doesn't do skill based MM. Hint the name "Random" battles.

 

Also, why just CVs? Any class played at a higher skill level creates disproportionate outcomes, IE a good DD who lands torps and caps helps out just as much as a good CV player when pitted against a less skill foe. A great BB player can dominate a flank by just being there, a poorly played BB can be ignored for 90% of the match, etc.

  • Cool 3
  • Boring 2
  • Meh 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,902
[NH]
Members
1,760 posts
49 minutes ago, Learux said:

Can we at least MM  the CV's.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

Can we at least MM  the DDs, BBs, CAs, CLs.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

  • Cool 4
  • Boring 1
  • Meh 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
987
[RKLES]
Members
805 posts
8 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Can we at least MM  the DDs, BBs, CAs, CLs.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

I ask to balance one class that has a disproportionate outcome on the game and you go full imbecile.

I am going to guess  that  you have more posts then games.

Please refrain from posting if you have nothing constructive to say.

Thanks  for understanding Ban_CV_complainers.

 

  • Cool 5
  • Boring 2
  • Meh 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
622
[NGA-A]
Members
1,284 posts
7,350 battles
1 hour ago, Learux said:

Can we at least MM  the CV's.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

There is no way for the MM to know who is competent and who isn't.  No one can know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,674
[INTEL]
Members
13,036 posts
35,974 battles
49 minutes ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

I assume you are talking about random battles, which doesn't do skill based MM. Hint the name "Random" battles.

 

Also, why just CVs? Any class played at a higher skill level creates disproportionate outcomes, IE a good DD who lands torps and caps helps out just as much as a good CV player when pitted against a less skill foe. A great BB player can dominate a flank by just being there, a poorly played BB can be ignored for 90% of the match, etc.

Because any non-CV ship can perform the functions of any other non-CV ship. If your BBs suck your cruisers can kill ships. if your cruisers dont support you can push BBs up. If your DDs are garbage your cruisers can cap. Etc. 

But only a CV can perform the functions of a CV. Moreover, there is usually only 1 CV, but there are 3-4 of the other ship types. If one of your BBs is garbage, its no big deal. But if the CV is garbage, that's usually it, game over.



 

  • Cool 1
  • Meh 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,414
[SI-YC]
Beta Testers
2,989 posts
5,943 battles
53 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Can we at least MM  the DDs, BBs, CAs, CLs.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

Why not.  It might help people discover how DDs and CAs and BBs and all the rest of the surface ships each have a very important role in the capture the flag element of the game.  And it might help highlight how the CV is really completely unnecessary and how much more fun the no CV matches are.  

And if people had a choice, they might not find it so onerous being a target in a CV dominated game when they have some ability to choose.

And hey, if it turns out an all DD or BB or CA brawl is your thing, what's wrong with letting people make that choice? 

Having played in both no DD (oh heck, now I have to cap :() or no BB games (oops I'm going to have to DPS fight a supercruiser :(), it's my experience that it really does highlight how all the surface classes fit together.

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
455
[META_]
Members
1,209 posts
16,019 battles
1 hour ago, Learux said:

I ask to balance one class that has a disproportionate outcome on the game and you go full imbecile.

I am going to guess  that  you have more posts then games.

Please refrain from posting if you have nothing constructive to say.

Thanks  for understanding Ban_CV_complainers.

 

Does cvs in the wows stats numbers have a bigger gap for the top 10% of players than other classes? They do not. People assume and rightly so that a competent cv player beats a rokkie sailor... But give your team a monster dd player and the other team a rookie? Same outcome. Go to the wows stats page and look at top 10% players in each class. CV highest echelon isn't any higher than the top players of other classes. It just feels that way because there usually is only 1 or 2 cvs on a team so easily noticed when they aren't good at cvs.... How often have you been in a game and you dd dies in the first 2 minutes and the red dd has a farm fest and cap party to victory... Just looking at it from a different perspective.... I play dds and cvs..... I think they are both overpowered when played against lower skill players. 

Edited by Meta_Man
  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[BONKS]
Members
170 posts
8,826 battles
26 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

Does cvs in the wows stats numbers have a bigger gap for the top 10% of players than other classes? They do not. People assume and rightly so that a competent cv player beats a rokkie sailor... But give your team a monster dd player and the other team a rookie? Same outcome. Go to the wows stats page and look at top 10% players in each class. CV highest echelon isn't any higher than the top players of other classes. It just feels that way because there usually is only 1 or 2 cvs on a team so easily noticed when they aren't good at cvs.... How often have you been in a game and you dd dies in the first 2 minutes and the red dd has a farm fest and cap party to victory... Just looking at it from a different perspective.... I play dds and cvs..... I think they are both overpowered when played against lower skill players. 

Carriers have disproportionately high amounts of game in general, due to the spotting and on demand damage they provide.

 

Looking at the top players too, Solo winrate in carriers can be pushed around 5-10% higher than same tier surface ships.

  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
455
[META_]
Members
1,209 posts
16,019 battles
1 minute ago, Potato_Farmer_ said:

Carriers have disproportionately high amounts of game in general, due to the spotting and on demand damage they provide.

 

Looking at the top players too, Solo winrate in carriers can be pushed around 5-10% higher than same tier surface ships.

Did you look at the numbers? I have... The highest 10% winrate players in the Bourgogne and nevsky were the 2 top winrate ships I believe... Cvs were not any higher than the other classes.. I've checked the numbers a lot. I just hear lots of opinions and not lots of actual numbers.. Not meaning you alone, just a witch hunt with no numbers to show why you're right. If you want I can post the screen shots, they are facts not opinions 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[BONKS]
Members
170 posts
8,826 battles
14 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

Did you look at the numbers? I have... The highest 10% winrate players in the Bourgogne and nevsky were the 2 top winrate ships I believe... 

Bourg is a ship that requires a large amount of competitive experience to aquire, and Nevsky was just recently released. The player pool of both ships are heavily skewed at the current moment.

 

21 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

'v'e checked the numbers a lot. I just hear lots of opinions and not lots of actual numbers.. Not meaning you alone, just a witch hunt with no numbers to show why you're right. If you want I can post the screen shots, they are facts not opinions 

Here's a screenshot from Wargaming's CV rework presentation, detailing the game impact of different ship classes.865845635_Screenshot2020-07-10at3_26_24AM.png.f0fe46aabe1ca4fa2de125c4632cf8f3.png

 

You can find the previous image and accompanying commentary at 17:02 in this video

 

  • Cool 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,851
[USCC2]
Members
6,051 posts
2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

The devs want collapses and crappy games. The in-game experience is not relevant to them. 

What is relevant is getting players back in the queue ASAP. When there is a disparity between CVs, that leads to a crappy steamroll game, which they love. CVs shorten games and lead to collapses, as the devs themselves have observed -- one of them even said the recent clan battle season was more dynamic since games were shorter. Hahahahahaha.

Numerous other game aspects support the generation of crappy, unfun steamrolls: the two tier MM spread, the choked, channeled maps, detonations, etc.

That is why the CV disparity will never be addressed even though anyone who actually cared about game play would make it a priority.  

In addition, WG have indicated that they have a line where, if CV games fall below it, then they will be seen as a failure.

To prevent this they have put 'the popularity of playing the CV' above everything else - including balance.

That the WG representative said this when asked a direct question by Flamuu, is a little worrying.

But I guess we have seen this behaviour so many times before, we shouldn't be surprised - Remember WG is never wrong lol.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,353
[TWFT]
Members
1,341 posts
37,347 battles

WG wants addicts, not good games for the player base. 

WG could give a rats rear about anything else other then making a buck, they would even kill this game if it would cash them out with a high pay check, that's why it is moving from a simple "Gun V Gun", slow paced game that needs patience to a fast paced arcade game with gimmicks, that any 10 year old with fast fingers can play.

Sad really.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
945
[5D]
Members
1,064 posts
13,533 battles
4 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Because any non-CV ship can perform the functions of any other non-CV ship. If your BBs suck your cruisers can kill ships. if your cruisers dont support you can push BBs up. If your DDs are garbage your cruisers can cap. Etc. 

But only a CV can perform the functions of a CV. Moreover, there is usually only 1 CV, but there are 3-4 of the other ship types. If one of your BBs is garbage, its no big deal. But if the CV is garbage, that's usually it, game over.



 

a CV can cap too ..... if they stay on the 1 line they are useless ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
145
[B_Y_F]
Members
523 posts
13,288 battles
4 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Because any non-CV ship can perform the functions of any other non-CV ship. If your BBs suck your cruisers can kill ships. if your cruisers dont support you can push BBs up. If your DDs are garbage your cruisers can cap. Etc. 

But only a CV can perform the functions of a CV. Moreover, there is usually only 1 CV, but there are 3-4 of the other ship types. If one of your BBs is garbage, its no big deal. But if the CV is garbage, that's usually it, game over.

Fun fact. The player quality is so bad these days sometimes CV didn't even matter. 

I'm having games where we lost our CV in the first 5 minute (I can't understand how they manage to do it), sometimes even first blood, but we steamroll the other team anyway. And this is happening much more frequent at the pass two weeks for me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
455
[META_]
Members
1,209 posts
16,019 battles
3 hours ago, Potato_Farmer_ said:

Bourg is a ship that requires a large amount of competitive experience to aquire, and Nevsky was just recently released. The player pool of both ships are heavily skewed at the current moment.

 

Here's a screenshot from Wargaming's CV rework presentation, detailing the game impact of different ship classes.865845635_Screenshot2020-07-10at3_26_24AM.png.f0fe46aabe1ca4fa2de125c4632cf8f3.png

 

You can find the previous image and accompanying commentary at 17:02 in this video

 

I have never seen this before , I go to wows stats and look up said ship and it will compare all ships. I have not seen this graph before. Thanks for the information, But at the 14:52 mark his graph says exactly what i was saying about skill gap. The top cv 10% are not winning as much as the other classes top 10%. 

Edited by Meta_Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
75
[BONKS]
Members
170 posts
8,826 battles
6 hours ago, Meta_Man said:

I have never seen this before , I go to wows stats and look up said ship and it will compare all ships. I have not seen this graph before. Thanks for the information, But at the 14:52 mark his graph says exactly what i was saying about skill gap. The top cv 10% are not winning as much as the other classes top 10%. 

That's because you fail to take into account the player population of different ships.

Bourgogne and Nevsky both are fairly exclusive as of now. Bourg because of steel requirements, Nevsky because of how new she is. Of course you're gonna have higher stats when you don't have potatoes dragging them down

 

Besides, you can't use global winrates as a metric for game influence because your u have different players playing different ships. Go look at any unicum CV player and you'll see their solo carrier winrate is generally higher than most surface ships.

Edited by Potato_Farmer_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
347
[YETI]
[YETI]
Members
542 posts
12,236 battles
11 hours ago, Learux said:

I ask to balance one class that has a disproportionate outcome on the game and you go full imbecile.

I am going to guess  that  you have more posts then games.

Please refrain from posting if you have nothing constructive to say.

Thanks  for understanding Ban_CV_complainers.

 

What he said is true though. In fact I would say DDs effect the game more than any class. Have you not noticed how scared a team is to push when there DD dies? The team with the incompetent DD usually loses. Just because his statement doesn't fit your narrative doesn't mean it isn't true.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,634
[SIDE]
Members
4,656 posts
12 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

I assume you are talking about random battles, which doesn't do skill based MM. Hint the name "Random" battles.

 

Also, why just CVs? Any class played at a higher skill level creates disproportionate outcomes, IE a good DD who lands torps and caps helps out just as much as a good CV player when pitted against a less skill foe. A great BB player can dominate a flank by just being there, a poorly played BB can be ignored for 90% of the match, etc.

Dang it man. Don't ruin a good axe grinding with smartnesses and logisticalistics!

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
389
[O40C]
[O40C]
Beta Testers
880 posts
5,905 battles
13 hours ago, JimmyTheRealPirate said:

I assume you are talking about random battles, which doesn't do skill based MM. Hint the name "Random" battles.

 

Also, why just CVs? Any class played at a higher skill level creates disproportionate outcomes, IE a good DD who lands torps and caps helps out just as much as a good CV player when pitted against a less skill foe. A great BB player can dominate a flank by just being there, a poorly played BB can be ignored for 90% of the match, etc.

Because CVs are the cause of all issues. Haven't you read the forums?

Covid= CVs, Global Inequality= CVs, Warlords kidnapping and selling kids = CVs...it's all CVs man. At least that the message I keep seeing (hyperbole intended). 

  • Haha 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,711
[SALVO]
Members
1,962 posts
6,183 battles
27 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Dang it man. Don't ruin a good axe grinding with smartnesses and logisticalistics!

Said despite the fact that CVs have higher match influence then all other classes including DDs.  Even WG says so  and I refer you to the image and video posted by Potato_Farmer_ in this thread. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37
[D-H-O]
Beta Testers
159 posts
6,738 battles
14 hours ago, Learux said:

Can we at least MM  the CV's.

They have a disproportionate outcome on the match when one of them is incompetent.

Thanks for understanding WG.

Its no where near as bad as it was before the rework. Back in the old days, the incompetent CV would be deplaned in 5 minutes then the competent one had free reign to dev strike all and sundry and spot multiple DD's simultaneously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9,674
[INTEL]
Members
13,036 posts
35,974 battles
12 hours ago, sapient007 said:

Fun fact. The player quality is so bad these days sometimes CV didn't even matter. 

I'm having games where we lost our CV in the first 5 minute (I can't understand how they manage to do it), sometimes even first blood, but we steamroll the other team anyway. And this is happening much more frequent at the pass two weeks for me. 

Lol thats probably true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×