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BlailBlerg

How to become expert at usn light and heavy cruisers?

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Some new friends and I are running through the USN cruiser lines. Dallas, Pensacola, New Orleans are very hard. How do you learn to play both heavy and light cruisers effectively? 
 

It is known that T6 and T7 is dominated by BBs and DDs (plus only a select few overpowered cruisers a la Belfast Atlanta) 

things I can do wel already: it the game boils down to finding a rock and shooting  that’s boring and easy  

in t10 I can use radar rushes to crippling effect  winning the game in one aggressive stroke   But the games seem quite boring and hard if neither of these two options are available  

 

how do you plan your early game contribution? 

 

 

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Really open water?? All I've seen is rock humping. 

You'll have to explain that a bit more 

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11 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

Really open water?? All I've seen is rock humping. 

You'll have to explain that a bit more 

USN ships are strong because they are versatile. They have both excellent HE and excellent AP alongside a good rate of fire.

This makes them very strong at 1v1 engagements because they can out gun what they cant out spot and out spot what they cant out gun.

By staying in open water, you allow yourself to fully utilize that fact and use your concealment to always be in a favorable fight.

Islands block your vision and also block your concealment buffer. This means that something that can out gun you can get within spotting range (such as a Battleship), or something that can outspot you can stay within spotting range (such as a destroyer), and negate your advantage.

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Not going to lie but the Sun Tzu quote 'know the enemy' quote makes a major impact on open water fighting in USN cruisers. Namely Rate of fire, armour, and secondaries. 

Particularly light cruisers, you'll want to stay at max range if your in the open and rain fire from afar. Make sure to do some minor back and forth keeping the rear turrets only on the target because USN cruisers have (for this game at least) poorly designed sterns that will eat pens easier. Watch for their gun fire, try to dodge as much as possible in the direction your turrets are facing - that way you can open up with full salvo's against most BB's 3-6 times depending on cruiser before taking a more defensive course.

Heavy Cruisers - you can be a little bolder. Pensacola (thanks to that last buff) and New Orleans have 25 mm plating - almost as much as same tier battleships, the 3 ships after all have 27 mm plating - more than the tier 7 battleship Colorado. Meaning that they can actually tank damage pretty well by deflecting rounds with proper angling, combined with their SH shells on at least the high tiers, can have absolutely devastating effects even on BB's if they don't angle enough. If like General Kenobi you are a bold one, or like me and absolutely insane - you can actually bully the lighter gunned BB's (Bismarck, KGV, Monarch, etc) because they can't overmatch so deflect the shots and ram shells in. It's also enough armour to push in close and get behind the battleship even if it's a more heavily gunned one to once there stick behind it in a zone where most secondaries can't fire, and only the rear turret or two can fire - which due to traverse means if you move a bit at close range it takes longer to get the shot lined up and most have poor point blank accuracy. I've literally stayed in the wake of BB's and thanks in part to angles actually slammed rounds into the rear turret barbettes to disable/destroy the guns and deal damage to the ship. Why they and German CA are sometimes referred to as 'Mini BB's'.

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With the light cruisers I try to hide behind a rock. The Seattle seems to be a floating citadel. Besides for the heal it is a downgrade from Cleveland.

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1 hour ago, DolphinPrincess said:

USN ships are strong because they are versatile. They have both excellent HE and excellent AP alongside a good rate of fire.

This makes them very strong at 1v1 engagements because they can out gun what they cant out spot and out spot what they cant out gun.

By staying in open water, you allow yourself to fully utilize that fact and use your concealment to always be in a favorable fight.

Islands block your vision and also block your concealment buffer. This means that something that can out gun you can get within spotting range (such as a Battleship), or something that can outspot you can stay within spotting range (such as a destroyer), and negate your advantage.

Thanks Dolphin, very sound advice. Wish I could have ran across that info a couple years ago. Plus 1

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49 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

(snip)

Yeah. Stay at long range.

Great if you can aim worth a damn that far out, and the enemy are idiots who don’t maneuver.

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2 hours ago, BlailBlerg said:

Some new friends and I are running through the USN cruiser lines. Dallas, Pensacola, New Orleans are very hard. How do you learn to play both heavy and light cruisers effectively? 
 

It is known that T6 and T7 is dominated by BBs and DDs (plus only a select few overpowered cruisers a la Belfast Atlanta) 

things I can do wel already: it the game boils down to finding a rock and shooting  that’s boring and easy  

in t10 I can use radar rushes to crippling effect  winning the game in one aggressive stroke   But the games seem quite boring and hard if neither of these two options are available  

 

how do you plan your early game contribution? 

 

 

I have the same feeling.... I am not grinding both lines. Stuck at Dallas and Pensacola...

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31 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Yeah. Stay at long range.

Great if you can aim worth a damn that far out, and the enemy are idiots who don’t maneuver.

Against a BB that is usually pretty slow and easy to adjust for, though those still help. I've really only found issue with it vs cruisers and DD's that have agility at which point most of those can be fought at closer range. But that's me. 

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For those ships, especially in open water, play the [excrement] out of the available scenarios. 

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10 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

USN ships are strong because they are versatile. They have both excellent HE and excellent AP alongside a good rate of fire.

This makes them very strong at 1v1 engagements because they can out gun what they cant out spot and out spot what they cant out gun.

By staying in open water, you allow yourself to fully utilize that fact and use your concealment to always be in a favorable fight.

Islands block your vision and also block your concealment buffer. This means that something that can out gun you can get within spotting range (such as a Battleship), or something that can outspot you can stay within spotting range (such as a destroyer), and negate your advantage.

Okay. now that makes a little more sense. Especially for the sneaking up issue. 

Now a few problems: I've used it plenty well to sneak up on DDs and radar the frikkers dead in 20seconds. So, this is a two edged sword no? 

 

Bigger problems: If I don't contribute to the early game, generally I see my team lose.  Whereas when I sneak up on the 2 dds in the cap, radar them and murder them with no counter-play available for them to not die in the next 10-20seconds, I will the game for my teams. 

Anyways. If I don't contribute early, my team loses a lot. 

Rarely and almost never does one get a 1v1 situation anyway in 12v12. 

Once you start shooting, most people want to shoot the cruiser that is 12 km away. Regardless if they have to turn their turret for 15 seconds. I'll still be spotted for 20 for only one volley. So, I haven't seen situations that are 1v1s. Sometimes I see xvx, but still not great. A lot of times I see 5v3 or 3v5. 

 

This seems to need another piece of info to put into context. 

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how do you plan your early game contribution? 

Edited by BlailBlerg

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CL's find an island you can hide behind while being in range of a cap zone and depending on the map, radar range. Their role is HE spam to farm BB's and to hunt DD's, so set them up for this. Camp behind the blasting HE at anything that comes into range. Don't over-extend and try to get every turret in if you have to poke out the side rather than hold behind using the orbital shell arcs, just the front ones. Force the enemy to have to find a way to dislodge you. If your flank looks like it might collapse or is weak, turn around and start kiting or go dark.

CA's I found worked best by staying with Battleships, then in the late game your goal is to ambush ships that are low on HP when they are aimed in the wrong direction or occupied with something else, letting you get a quick kill without taking incoming fire.

Bigger problems: If I don't contribute to the early game, generally I see my team lose.  Whereas when I sneak up on the 2 dds in the cap, radar them and murder them with no counter-play available for them to not die in the next 10-20seconds, I will the game for my teams. 

The only thing that contributes to team losses in the early game are ship losses and losing all the competitive caps (eg 0-3 in the 3 cap game, or 1v3 in the 4 cap game).

A US cruiser isn't going to win the game in the first 5 minutes unless you yolo into a cap, miraculously don't die, and kill multiple enemy DD's.

Edited by macktkau2

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44 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

how do you plan your early game contribution? 

follow the nearest bb as i an doing right now as mainz and stay at longest range possible. i shot behind the bb. in this case Yamato.

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On 7/10/2020 at 5:31 AM, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

Thats "questionable" advice. Try and hunt me like that, lol, save me a trip. They need to use cover be it island be it meat-shield BB or both but support the team in a squadron formation stay dark until you are angled correctly and in a kite away position. If I catch you alone in any lone wolf situation or lone wolf mentality your sunk and I will talk shyt about your lone wolf mentality in game chat during the processes 

You do realize I top the leaderboards for all the USN cruisers I played right?

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1 hour ago, BlailBlerg said:

Bigger problems: If I don't contribute to the early game, generally I see my team lose.  Whereas when I sneak up on the 2 dds in the cap, radar them and murder them with no counter-play available for them to not die in the next 10-20seconds, I will the game for my teams

Anyways. If I don't contribute early, my team loses a lot. 

I'm not very good at crusiers, so just my 5 cents. 

I don't think you want to worry about early games too much on them.

Bad players will suicide regardless of what you do these days, it's not worthy to use half of your HP pool to save one(or take one out a little earlier) as they will make a second mistake very soon if they survived the first one. If they were any good, try something like a sneakily radar simply never work and you just get farm. If your team get steamroll at a flank, the best thing you can do in a cruiser is actually retreat and start causing problems at rare angle(where they don't what to point their guns to) than just stand and fight. 

One of cruiser's strength is always DPM. You tip the balance of a battle by doing enough damage over time. So find a better position to farm is more important than get an early cap. 

Yes, if it's save to do so, early radar cover over cap is welcome to DDs. But saty alive and reserves HP should be first priority in early game for cruiser. Because you will find more chance to have favorable fight at mid to late game than the first 10 minute.A healthy cruiser in late game is hard to deal with, especially USN one. 

 

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29 minutes ago, sapient007 said:

I'm not very good at crusiers, so just my 5 cents. 

I don't think you want to worry about early games too much on them.

Bad players will suicide regardless of what you do these days, it's not worthy to use half of your HP pool to save one(or take one out a little earlier) as they will make a second mistake very soon if they survived the first one. If they were any good, try something like a sneakily radar simply never work and you just get farm. If your team get steamroll at a flank, the best thing you can do in a cruiser is actually retreat and start causing problems at rare angle(where they don't what to point their guns to) than just stand and fight. 

One of cruiser's strength is always DPM. You tip the balance of a battle by doing enough damage over time. So find a better position to farm is more important than get an early cap. 

Yes, if it's save to do so, early radar cover over cap is welcome to DDs. But saty alive and reserves HP should be first priority in early game for cruiser. Because you will find more chance to have favorable fight at mid to late game than the first 10 minute.A healthy cruiser in late game is hard to deal with, especially USN one. 

 

losinh hp early is really a problem... you get stuck on the back and afraid of another mistake...

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Salt aside, this is a good topic for discussion. I love the USN cruisers, and pretty much all cruisers in general, in theory, In this game, their roles and capabilities diverge somewhat let us say from at least my understanding of historical examples, but that's the hand we're dealt. The different lines do have generally different characteristics, at least, making for some interesting choices.

I have struggled with US cruisers too (ok, I struggle with everything in this game), trying to balance their often very good damage potential with their equally strong affinity for getting all blowed up as we would say where I am from originally. I like the advice from @DolphinPrincess, as it fits my understanding of the US cruisers strengths and weaknesses, though I will say that @JaysUsedBoatParts's comments certainly reflect the way I see _most_ US cruisers played (or cruisers in general). I am very bad (more bad than usual) at island humping. I usually just inflict untold miseries on the poor landmass, then get hung up on a rock and get torped or Smolensked(tm) into cinders. I don't find it fun, either, that static sort of play, no matter how profitable it obviously can be. I figure if I'm going to suck anyhow I might as well suck trying something I like, such as open water fighting. 

With as many games as I have played now, I don't have much expectation of my win rate skyrocketing, so I'm willing to play around with different methods for more dynamic play.

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15 minutes ago, TANSTAAFL said:

Salt aside, this is a good topic for discussion. I love the USN cruisers, and pretty much all cruisers in general, in theory, In this game, their roles and capabilities diverge somewhat let us say from at least my understanding of historical examples, but that's the hand we're dealt. The different lines do have generally different characteristics, at least, making for some interesting choices.

I have struggled with US cruisers too (ok, I struggle with everything in this game), trying to balance their often very good damage potential with their equally strong affinity for getting all blowed up as we would say where I am from originally. I like the advice from @DolphinPrincess, as it fits my understanding of the US cruisers strengths and weaknesses, though I will say that @JaysUsedBoatParts's comments certainly reflect the way I see _most_ US cruisers played (or cruisers in general). I am very bad (more bad than usual) at island humping. I usually just inflict untold miseries on the poor landmass, then get hung up on a rock and get torped or Smolensked(tm) into cinders. I don't find it fun, either, that static sort of play, no matter how profitable it obviously can be. I figure if I'm going to suck anyhow I might as well suck trying something I like, such as open water fighting. 

With as many games as I have played now, I don't have much expectation of my win rate skyrocketing, so I'm willing to play around with different methods for more dynamic play.

This is the playstyle I'm talking about

Play like that and you will have fun and win alot

Edited by JaysUsedBoatParts

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1 hour ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

Please, I have sunk many high horse 07 members even when they sync drop against us in ranked and I have the videos to back it up. Stats are questionable just like your advice. 

replays if you have them please, with all due respect. I'm not questioning your statement...Stats are questionable for sure, advice are diverse which is OK...

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On 7/10/2020 at 6:17 AM, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

Please, I have sunk many high horse 07 members even when they sync drop against us in ranked and I have the videos to back it up. Stats are questionable just like your advice. 

I'd recommend stopping while you're behind. 

On 7/10/2020 at 6:12 AM, DolphinPrincess said:

You do realize I top the leaderboards for all the USN cruisers I played right?

 

On the topic, it's interesting advice as nearly all games in random, I see De Moines hugging rocks, and moskvas, petro's, al dev's, all on the flanks. Not doubting you of course as you know what you're talking about. Is your advice for a certain US ship or in CB?

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22 minutes ago, loco_max said:

replays if you have them please, with all due respect. I'm not questioning your statement...Stats are questionable for sure, advice are diverse which is OK...

Just play ranked and pay attention to the roster 

You might see me pulling off the team carry against the odss

Edited by JaysUsedBoatParts
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6 hours ago, JaysUsedBoatParts said:

This is the playstyle I'm talking about

Play like that and you will have fun and win alot

Thanks for the vid; I like the Yoshino as well :). That's not the sort of island humping I thought was being discussed, though--it's more like using islands while maneuvering, which sounds neat. When I think of island humping, I'm thinking of pulling in to an island and sitting still for 90% of the game hosing things down with high-arc HE. That's what I find boring :).

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17 minutes ago, TANSTAAFL said:

Thanks for the vid; I like the Yoshino as well :). That's not the sort of island humping I thought was being discussed, though--it's more like using islands while maneuvering, which sounds neat. When I think of island humping, I'm thinking of pulling in to an island and sitting still for 90% of the game hosing things down with high-arc HE. That's what I find boring :).

Your welcome.  I don't use the island humping play style its frickin boring and your not helping your team.

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