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Skyfaller

border exploiting and how to fix it

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WG,

The borders are easily exploited thanks to ships being allowed to rotate and slide when they hit it. 

 

Just what is so hard about making the borders be like islands? You hit them, your ship stops. Only thing you can do is BACK up. 

 

Make all map borders contain 'beach' type terrain that is fully transparent. That way you hit the line is just like hitting an island. There is no sliding nor exploiting possible that way. 


CV planes aren't affected.

 

 

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It used to be but with the severe engine debuff it's not really much of an issue any more.

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7 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

It used to be but with the severe engine debuff it's not really much of an issue any more.

I think the issue is that it throws off people's aim because the person is moving at various speeds along the boarder even when they are pointed away from you.  So you aim like he's moving and miss.

They really need to add a second penalty after 60 seconds or so that adds 50-100% to your reload time until you get off the boarder.  People don't see hitting the boarder as a "problem" and often do it on purpose.

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5 minutes ago, Jitta77 said:

 

It's really easy to compensate, you just aim using the border as the guide not the ship. It's pretty easy because you no longer have to compensate for the vertical movement, just horizontal.

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Boxing should have put walls around the ring after Ali schooled Foreman using the rope-a-dope in Kinshasha.

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I was always for the idea that you could move through the border but you lose health exponentially the longer you are in

Maybe give rise to a game mode that closes the map borders, call it eye if the storm or something 

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The fix is to make sure any border crawlers get hit repeatedly by every volley fired at them until they get off the borderline.

This will solve this problem  completely when this exploit can no longer be used by those who intentionally try this.

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23 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

It's really easy to compensate, you just aim using the border as the guide not the ship. It's pretty easy because you no longer have to compensate for the vertical movement, just horizontal.

I agree but it changes everything else you learn on how to aim. Because of that it honestly should be more more penalizing. I've seen players abuse it to buy time from players shooting at them who are not familiar will how the wall works.  It isn't covered in the WG "how to aim" tutorial that is for sure.

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58 minutes ago, PotatoMD said:

I was always for the idea that you could move through the border but you lose health exponentially the longer you are in. 

Yup, that's what I would love. Give folks a reasonable grace period to turn around, but after that the shop starts to take progressively more damage. Also all gun reloads reset once you touch or are outside the boundary, so no firing from there. 

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If people stopped trying to lead a ship STUCK at the border like it's moving along at 30kts, they'll start hitting things.  Below is a quote when another one of these threads popped up a while back, the OP of that thread was complaining about ships on the border.  I actually took the time to watch his replay and it was straight up 100% the OP aiming as if the ship was moving out in open water still.

On 7/10/2019 at 11:05 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Ships lose speed drastically at the border.  They become insanely easy to hit.  I don't see this as an issue.

 

Ships hugging the border lose their speed, you don't need to lead out far anymore.  Your point of aim in these 2 salvos is completely wrong.  I took these screenshots the moment you fired your salvos:

 

This one is completely wrong, you were aiming ahead of the ship as if it was moving forward.  You can clearly see, Henri isn't moving forward yet your aim treated it as if it was.

CDqlyDQ.jpg

 

Same thing again with this one.

nLCJpJH.jpg

 

Broadside Henri slowed down by the border against a 406mm armed Battleship at 11.1km is easy.  Especially for a Russian Battleship with its improved dispersion at this range against a Cruiser this large.  But good dispersion is irrelevant if the user's aim is wrong.

 

The Henri player wasn't cheating.  YOU had bad aim, OP, and the improved accuracy of Sovetsky Soyuz at 11.1km isn't going to help that.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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2 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

It's really easy to compensate, you just aim using the border as the guide not the ship. It's pretty easy because you no longer have to compensate for the vertical movement, just horizontal.

This, fire one gun/turret and watch the fall. Adjust and fire another gun/turret and adjust and once on target fire for effect.

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7 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

It's really easy to compensate, you just aim using the border as the guide not the ship. It's pretty easy because you no longer have to compensate for the vertical movement, just horizontal.

No its not. Look, if you aim at the border line which is where the ship slides in, the hull of the ship is still able to VERY quickly change the direction in which it is sliding in. 

We see these exploiters nose in to the border and slide left and right just turning the nose. Shells you fire at the border line hardly hit a target that is able to narrow itself to bow-on and then just slide from side to side. 

 

The border should be the same as crashing into an island. That alone removes any exploit capability and does penalize the player hitting the border line. 

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3 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

No its not. Look, if you aim at the border line which is where the ship slides in, the hull of the ship is still able to VERY quickly change the direction in which it is sliding in. 

We see these exploiters nose in to the border and slide left and right just turning the nose. Shells you fire at the border line hardly hit a target that is able to narrow itself to bow-on and then just slide from side to side. 

 

The border should be the same as crashing into an island. That alone removes any exploit capability and does penalize the player hitting the border line. 

If they are just sitting there on the border all that time. They are probably losing the game. I agree with Ripnun anyways, it's pretty easy to hit them.

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11 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

If they are just sitting there on the border all that time. They are probably losing the game. I agree with Ripnun anyways, it's pretty easy to hit them.

I've seen this used a lot at the start of a battle because it allows them to fire back and quickly and easily dodge incoming fire. 

Its easy to hit someone who hits the border and doesn't exploit.. because they are under low engine power and the ship rotates in one direction as it tries to leave the border itself. Those are easy. But when a ship purposely hits the border and STAYS with half the ship stuck outside the map and wiggles to slide back and forth its very hard to hit... only if you at close range can your shells reach him before he has slide-displaced his ship away from shells coming in from mid or long range. 

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I like boarderhuggers... They're sitting ducks and all I have to do as aim correctly.. They in turn cant point all their guns at me because they're moving to the boarder...

Some players think its a good idea, but in the end its a distorted thinking... It my work with the new guys... Not with players that can compensate.

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24 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

I like boarderhuggers... They're sitting ducks and all I have to do as aim correctly.. They in turn cant point all their guns at me because they're moving to the boarder...

Some players think its a good idea, but in the end its a distorted thinking... It my work with the new guys... Not with players that can compensate.

Again, its DIFFERENT between those who exploit it and know how to do it and those who just hit the border or try to sneak with borders. 

There is a way to completely eliminate that exploit. WG has to but do it. 

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14 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

Again, its DIFFERENT between those who exploit it and know how to do it and those who just hit the border or try to sneak with borders. 

There is a way to completely eliminate that exploit. WG has to but do it. 

Its not an exploit... Its a behavior that people think they need to do in order to fend off power creep... Its a distorted thinking on their part.. 

I see it as an in game aiming exercise. At high tiers he will get tagged/deleted...  I just dont have any statistics on how many times, the boarder-hugging behavior actually works (people do it so it must work sometimes, just like the lemmi train or the conga line tactic)...

As long as they continue to think it "works"  Its going to be done.. As far the rest of us, just shoot at it... Its an easy target...

Edited by Navalpride33
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9 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

The borders are easily exploited thanks to ships being allowed to rotate and slide when they hit it. 

Why is it an exploit?  It's not, just a feature of the game.  The borders act in a perfectly logical and consistent way, and they don't provide any unfair benefit to anyone.  Get over it.

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Except they do exploit it, experienced players do and you know it. It is a issue its been brought up many times by many different players.

 

Simple solutions one make it a boarder just on the other side of the white border line or if you touch the border you guns turn off and stay off for 5 seconds after you leave the border.  I prefer a beach "hard" border just outside the white line

 

The topic is about people who exploit it they know what they are doing, HE spammers will do it to vary their speed at range, they don't stay in it they "border hump"  sail close when incoming fire happens have the tail of the ship touch border instant juke. Also called border bouncing, if you get you angle right you can actually do a very sharp turn by doing a bounce.  

 

A side issue to all this is the stupid range on some of the low caliber HE spammers, the ranges on those need to be lowered across the board.

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How about this, I saw this in another game with a box map set-up.

When someone left the map and went over the border, they had a fixed amount of time to return within the border. Anyone who was still outside the map border when time ran down was considered to have 'left the battle' and returned to port.
 

Why not implement that here? We can have it considered as quitting the battle early and if its continued to be abused the player becomes Pink.

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12 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

How about this, I saw this in another game with a box map set-up. When someone left the map and went over the border, they had a fixed amount of time to return within the border. Anyone who was still outside the map border when time ran down was considered to have 'left the battle' and returned to port. Why not implement that here? We can have it considered as quitting the battle early and if its continued to be abused the player becomes Pink.

The only dilemma I could see with that is if someone lag out from their ISP for a bit and went out of the border.

10 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

Again, its DIFFERENT between those who exploit it and know how to do it and those who just hit the border or try to sneak with borders. There is a way to completely eliminate that exploit. WG has to but do it. 

Agreed. And while I do understand how some folks say it is so easy to hit the target since they're slowed, but the hyper turning and significant speed changes, especially firing at something smaller or at range makes it extremely hard to get accurate shots in. When you're using a dakka-dakka ship, that makes the wall hugger pretty vulnerable, but something with a long reload time, at range... you're pretty much just wasting your salvo trying to hit the target.

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1 minute ago, TheArc said:

The only dilemma I could see with that is if someone lag out from their ISP for a bit and went out of the border.

true, but how often does that happen?

It has been years since I've lagged out during a match. Last time I did lose a connection while playing was because of a brown out that reset my modem.

If someone is experiencing constant lag outs, they might have other issues going on they might wish to investigate. 

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8 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

true, but how often does that happen? It has been years since I've lagged out during a match. Last time I did lose a connection while playing was because of a brown out that reset my modem.

I'm sure that WG has stats on it.

Edited by TheArc

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Play the game long enough, gain the proper experience, and the border becomes just one more thing in the toolbox.  One more thing that can be used (and defeated) by experience.

I'll use it to my advantage in those rare situations where it benefits me.   And I have the experience to defeat those who do the same in those rare situations where it is beneficial to target a border hugger.

Just one more thing in the toolbox.  One more thing where experience makes the difference.  

 

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