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The_Big_Woof

New US BBs..

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Ok. a mediocre BB main here with a crap load of matches. About the US BB split and new ships...

Is the US to Russian translator not working? I am assuming that this was what WG thought people who were asking for a split or for the addition of other US BBs were asking for. For ME, it absolutely was not and i feel safe to safe a large groups is in agreement. Instead of more paper ships, however real the design may be, or even if they were started but scrapped due to treaties, we were asking for some of the built, historical ships: Nevada, Washington, Pennsylvania. If a Paper ship just had to be added, use the Saratoga as Battle Cruiser before she was converted. 

To Be Fair, I am seeing a good bit of "wait and see" remarks, but I am seeing more along the lines of, "Why the hell would I ever drive this!!?"

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Good question.  I doubt if anyone wants to drive these ships as they stand right now.  They are they are targets for HE and torps spammers.  Even the secondary's suck.  With their bad secondarys and 40 sec reload here is no way these ships can defend themselves from cruisers and DDs that break into the rear where these ships will be sitting trying to snipe from 20K

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In addition to my post... 

I just don't understand why they look like colorodos?? The colorodo's design was obsolete, fast BBs are the new...

Why not make them look like super size Montana's, at least in that case the design and astetic would be consistent with reality. 

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6 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

In addition to my post... 

I just don't understand why they look like colorodos?? The colorodo's design was obsolete, fast BBs are the new...

Why not make them look like super size Montana's, at least in that case the design and astetic would be consistent with reality. 

Because they aren't super size Montanas.   If the ship was built or designed along standard lines, then they will LOOK like a standard USN design. 

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7 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

In addition to my post... 

I just don't understand why they look like colorodos?? The colorodo's design was obsolete, fast BBs are the new...

Why not make them look like super size Montana's, at least in that case the design and astetic would be consistent with reality. 

Because they made them some “tillman battleship line, which is great even if we do not get Tillman 2 with its 24 16” guns.

 

still, why a split at tier 8? They could have make the split far sooner (add USS Saratoga at tier 7, plus some standard bb lower) .... but they did not for “reasons”. 

 

 

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WIP folks, there will be constant changes as they are tested so don't get your panties in a bunch yet.

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I don't find anything interesting about a paper line of US BBs at all. 

There are just SO many better options than a bunch of paper ships added to an already complete line.

For starters, the Italian battleships and destroyers are just sitting there in every WWII order of battle just begging to be added.  Full lines, little to no paper needed.  For that matter, it would only take a little bit of paper to include Italian carriers  - they were as close or closer to seeing combat as the Graf Zeppelin.

 

There are also quite a few interesting ships from smaller Pan-Asian and European navies that could be used to flesh out those lines. 

Chinese Ning Hai, Thai Thonburi, and Turkish Yavuz would be great.  You could also add ships from other minor navies like those of South America (both Brazil and Argentina had battleships that could slide in well at the T4/5/6 level).

Different, unique, REAL ships.  I'd like them a lot - but cloned paper US BBs?  Nah, hard pass.  I'll just plug along with the NC, Iowa, and Montana.   

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I suspect they want big fat USN BBs so that certain players can farm them.

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They will look at past sales, and built what brings in money, my guess.

 

Cheers

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I actually don't mind them being a continuation of the USN "standard" BB line (everything up to Colorado), but they miss what makes those ships good while keeping that makes them bad. The early USN BBs have good rudder shift (~12 sec) and turn radius (~650m) by BB standards, which actually help a lot for brawling, dodging torpedoes, zig-zagging to avoid HE farmers, and adjusting position in a small area. Since they are so slow (even at tier 6 and 7), the extra agility is needed since they basically need to slowly push toward the center of the map and don't really get to chose when or where to fight.

Similarly, the tier 6 and 7 turret speed and reload aren't bad for their tier, which allows the USN BBs at tier 7 and below to rely more heavily on their main battery in brawls.

The new line would suck if it goes live as is, because they lose that ability while not gaining anything of value. More damage on a broadside is great either if you have and invulnerable citadel (which these ships don't) or if you've got a good enough rudder to quickly expose the rear turrets then return to angling (which the ships don't). Basically, the Colorado rudder needs to continue to tier 10 if you expect to have Colorado speed continue to tier 10 — that's the only way the line can work.

Reload should be more similar to other USN BBs, even though these have more guns — the speed is that major a disadvantage. It's okay if reload is a little longer, but it should be a difference of 5 seconds instead of 15.

It also might be smart to give the secondaries the Massachusetts treatment in terms of range and rate of fire. USN 5"/38 and 5"/54 guns were actually pretty good, and they are nerfed in game much more heavily than other secondaries (meaning that if you translated real-world range and rate of fire into the game the same way for all nations, the USN would be much better overall; the Massachusetts is the only one that's close to right). Since the new line is so slow, they don't have the option to choose at which range they fight, so they probably need better ability to deal with enemies who choose to get close.

Overall the line should have great rudders, long range with mediocre dispersion and sigma, good but not great turret rotation, good but not great armor (which needs to be actively angled for best performance), good but not great secondaries, and truly crappy speed.

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They're going to need an absolute full tank build. No concealment at all, because in the current meta it will be pointless trying to hide it.

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This new line looks like complete trash. Why would anyone choose to play this garbage. These russian developers cannot be this stupid! or can they? LOL

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6 hours ago, SLaTeRSkAteR said:

This new line looks like complete trash. Why would anyone choose to play this garbage. These russian developers cannot be this stupid! or can they? LOL

I remember when players were trashing the Kremlin's 18" guns 'cause they couldn't overmatch 32mm of armor.  Boy were they wrong!

Georgia is apparently a mediocre ship?  Nope!

Hayate is uninspiring?  I think the few people that have figured her out are saying otherwise.

Smolensk is the harbinger of destruction?  Not quite.

What I'm getting at is every time I read someone saying soandso new ship is going to be trash, they're always wrong.  Sorry, but it's true.

Also, they're WIP.  Try Googling it sometime.

Edit - Oh yes, let's not forget Shikishima.  Pretty sure she's trolled the entire CC group with her actual performance. 

Edited by Ranari
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On 7/4/2020 at 6:04 PM, BrushWolf said:

WIP folks, there will be constant changes as they are tested so don't get your panties in a bunch yet.

OK fair enough...

BUT,

How freaking out of touch do you have to be to think that what players wanted was an alternate US BB line based on derivations of the standard type with big guns or lots of them but with poor reload and poor accuracy mounted on a 23 knot hull that is designed to melt away as soon as anyone looks at it? Ohh yes and junk secondaries. Not to mention that the Tillman BB's were never intended as serious design proposals. 

Have they not noticed how popular Maime and Georgia are? Have they not noticed how enjoyable brawling US BB's can be? And or crying out loud if your going to build a T10 with a top speed of 23 knots (which is just beyond insane) it should sure as shooting be able to brawl like no ones business.

Ohh and not to mention that ALL of the talk about a USN BB line split was based around getting REAL SHIPS that ACUTALLY EXISTED into the game. Not creating more dumb paper ships.  

Seriously has WG replaced water with Vodka in their drinking fountains?

Edited by Thirsty13_CCW
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I personally don't care if the ships are real or not. Most ships in this game are not as it is. I just want them to be good ships, not free xp for the enemies.

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WIP or not, the starting point was absolute trash and easy prey considering the current meta.  Massive and slow, with no protection from HE spam, no ability to deal with DDs due to the longest reload per tier, and nothing other than a huge alpha as a positive.  That's it... and even then, trash DPM, and not even great accuracy.  They basically started at "well, let's just not leave spawn and take pot shots from 25 km or we die".

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