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Col_Nasty

Your professional opinion please.

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I will try to post this as neutrally as possible.

Situation..

T 10 Match - Islands of Ice. 

Headed to Cap C with 2 BBs in tow.  We fight off their CA and start looking to secure C.  Problem is a DD is already in the Cap.  The BBs are firing at  a Lenin and a MASS that would have them in a cross if it weren't for the Iceberg they had to hug, saving their flank.

They are stuck. Come out and the Mass Seconds will light them up and they are in a perfect crossfire.

 I KNOW there is a DD on the other side of that same Berg keeping me from capping.

Launch 2 spreads at the lenin ( 11km) to get him to back up and maybe let them out. get 4 hits , he moves.  

I peek to see what the DD is doing and it is less than 1km from me, head on, coming around the berg and is on a YOLO run to blapp both BBs.  Only thing I can do to stop it and prevent  losing the only ships holding this flank ( and they could cap C ) is to YOLO that DD without torps or Ram it as I have about 5 seconds to do something before both BBs get wrecked.

Missed the ram..not time to set it up.  Gunz Blazing  dodged first set of this torp he had to use on me instead.. got a TON of his HPs  before one of his second set got me.  He never got to touch the BBs and he was so beat up one shot from the BB finished it. ( could have been both their seconds going off )  1 DD for 2 BBs, fair trade to me and they could have finished my capping job AND the 2 BBs were now lo health and running.

BOTH  Green BBs sail away untouched.Scroll down for the results. and give your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both sailed away.. no thank you,  and even left the cap as it was 90% Capped so it turned RED again. After ALL of that!!?  One keyboard kid was going off about how DDs are useless and they can't do anything.   I say.. you mean except save 2BBs at once?

SO was it worth it?    Should DDs even bother risking themselves to smoke up or in any other fashion save their teammates?

 I really like working to help the team. Seeing those huge THANK YOU!!! in chat feels good.  But games like this make me want to go back to selfish play again and just farm XP.

 Has this type of teamwork died with the rest of the gameplay I came to love almost 2 years ago?

 

 

 

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Many players can’t see two steps ahead of them, but you do.

This match will be forgotten in time; but those matches when you find a grateful teammate that you can work with to secure the win are remembered.

Could it have been better executed?, surely, but in the heat of battle you don’t have the luxury of hindsight.

Edited by CO_Valle
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13 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

I will try to post this as neutrally as possible.

Situation..

T 10 Match - Islands of Ice. 

Headed to Cap C with 2 BBs in tow.  We fight off their CA and start looking to secure C.  Problem is a DD is already in the Cap.  The BBs are firing at  a Lenin and a MASS that would have them in a cross if it weren't for the Iceberg they had to hug, saving their flank.

They are stuck. Come out and the Mass Seconds will light them up and they are in a perfect crossfire.

 I KNOW there is a DD on the other side of that same Berg keeping me from capping.

Launch 2 spreads at the lenin ( 11km) to get him to back up and maybe let them out. get 4 hits , he moves.  

I peek to see what the DD is doing and it is less than 1km from me, head on, coming around the berg and is on a YOLO run to blapp both BBs.  Only thing I can do to stop it and prevent  losing the only ships holding this flank ( and they could cap C ) is to YOLO that DD without torps or Ram it as I have about 5 seconds to do something before both BBs get wrecked.

Missed the ram..not time to set it up.  Gunz Blazing  dodged first set of this torp he had to use on me instead.. got a TON of his HPs  before one of his second set got me.  He never got to touch the BBs and he was so beat up one shot from the BB finished it. ( could have been both their seconds going off )  1 DD for 2 BBs, fair trade to me and they could have finished my capping job AND the 2 BBs were now lo health and running.

BOTH  Green BBs sail away untouched.Scroll down for the results. and give your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both sailed away.. no thank you,  and even left the cap as it was 90% Capped so it turned RED again. After ALL of that!!?  One keyboard kid was going off about how DDs are useless and they can't do anything.   I say.. you mean except save 2BBs at once?

SO was it worth it?    Should DDs even bother risking themselves to smoke up or in any other fashion save their teammates?

 I really like working to help the team. Seeing those huge THANK YOU!!! in chat feels good.  But games like this make me want to go back to selfish play again and just farm XP.

 Has this type of teamwork died with the rest of the gameplay I came to love almost 2 years ago?

 

 

 

A good, and under-appreciated, effort on your part.  

Better luck, next time.

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High tier DD play is not, what you were lead to believe from tiers 7 and below... The rules of engagement are different from tiers 8 and above to the point, you've entered the twilight zone.

My suggestion. Adapt.

Your expectation of team play at high tiers is distorted thinking on your part... At high tiers, due to gun power creep... If you manage to do any DMG or sink any ship, IMO that is a productive DD match.

Your primary duty is spotting so that the big guns get all the glory... That's it.

So 2 BBs for one DD, in the words of my favorite series... "I call that, a bargain."

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15 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

I will try to post this as neutrally as possible.

Situation..

T 10 Match - Islands of Ice. 

Headed to Cap C with 2 BBs in tow.  We fight off their CA and start looking to secure C.  Problem is a DD is already in the Cap.  The BBs are firing at  a Lenin and a MASS that would have them in a cross if it weren't for the Iceberg they had to hug, saving their flank.

They are stuck. Come out and the Mass Seconds will light them up and they are in a perfect crossfire.

 I KNOW there is a DD on the other side of that same Berg keeping me from capping.

Launch 2 spreads at the lenin ( 11km) to get him to back up and maybe let them out. get 4 hits , he moves.  

I peek to see what the DD is doing and it is less than 1km from me, head on, coming around the berg and is on a YOLO run to blapp both BBs.  Only thing I can do to stop it and prevent  losing the only ships holding this flank ( and they could cap C ) is to YOLO that DD without torps or Ram it as I have about 5 seconds to do something before both BBs get wrecked.

Missed the ram..not time to set it up.  Gunz Blazing  dodged first set of this torp he had to use on me instead.. got a TON of his HPs  before one of his second set got me.  He never got to touch the BBs and he was so beat up one shot from the BB finished it. ( could have been both their seconds going off )  1 DD for 2 BBs, fair trade to me and they could have finished my capping job AND the 2 BBs were now lo health and running.

BOTH  Green BBs sail away untouched.Scroll down for the results. and give your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both sailed away.. no thank you,  and even left the cap as it was 90% Capped so it turned RED again. After ALL of that!!?  One keyboard kid was going off about how DDs are useless and they can't do anything.   I say.. you mean except save 2BBs at once?

SO was it worth it?    Should DDs even bother risking themselves to smoke up or in any other fashion save their teammates?

 I really like working to help the team. Seeing those huge THANK YOU!!! in chat feels good.  But games like this make me want to go back to selfish play again and just farm XP.

 Has this type of teamwork died with the rest of the gameplay I came to love almost 2 years ago?

 

 

 

When I notice...  sometimes being busy and up to my eyeballs in trying to stay alive, I always try to thank my savior (even thanked a bot once, not realizing what it was).  Something as obvious as your experience should have gotten at least a thanks.

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4 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

High tier DD play is not, what you were lead to believe from tiers 7 and below... The rules of engagement are different from tiers 8 and above to the point, you've entered the twilight zone.

My suggestion. Adapt.

Your expectation of team play at high tiers is distorted thinking on your part... At high tiers, due to gun power creep... If you manage to do any DMG or sink any ship, IMO that is a productive DD match.

Your primary duty is spotting so that the big guns get all the glory... That's it.

So 2 BBs for one DD, in the words of my favorite series... "I call that, a bargain."

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.

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This applies to all classes, but never trust your teammates unless in a division. Assume the worst and plan around that.

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23 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

SO was it worth it?   

Totally, you have my seal of approval. The outcome is somewhat irrelevant once you have taken the decision, and it was a good call in my book. If your ram would have been successful, the outcome might have been different, but in any case you tried it. What the other guys do or don't do is outside your control, you are only responsible for your actions, your call was sound, it was worth it. 

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8 minutes ago, michael_zahnle said:

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.

On the contrary, it was not meant to make a point... My post was to encourage him to not expect anything, from your fleet when you're doing your primary high tier DD job...

It was aim at showing him a different way of viewing the situation, to improve his decision making in game...

He can take the advice or not...

It was not a "point to make."

Edited by Navalpride33

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Sounds like you evaluated the situation, made a decision, and accomplished what you thought was the proper strategy.  Other's didn't value it, but doesn't mean what you did wasn't worth the effort (even if the results weren't to their liking or the outcome you were hoping for).  Sounds to me like you did a good job, even if the team didn't see or appreciate it (imho at least).

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36 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

I will try to post this as neutrally as possible.

Situation..

T 10 Match - Islands of Ice. 

Headed to Cap C with 2 BBs in tow.  We fight off their CA and start looking to secure C.  Problem is a DD is already in the Cap.  The BBs are firing at  a Lenin and a MASS that would have them in a cross if it weren't for the Iceberg they had to hug, saving their flank.

They are stuck. Come out and the Mass Seconds will light them up and they are in a perfect crossfire.

 I KNOW there is a DD on the other side of that same Berg keeping me from capping.

Launch 2 spreads at the lenin ( 11km) to get him to back up and maybe let them out. get 4 hits , he moves.  

I peek to see what the DD is doing and it is less than 1km from me, head on, coming around the berg and is on a YOLO run to blapp both BBs.  Only thing I can do to stop it and prevent  losing the only ships holding this flank ( and they could cap C ) is to YOLO that DD without torps or Ram it as I have about 5 seconds to do something before both BBs get wrecked.

Missed the ram..not time to set it up.  Gunz Blazing  dodged first set of this torp he had to use on me instead.. got a TON of his HPs  before one of his second set got me.  He never got to touch the BBs and he was so beat up one shot from the BB finished it. ( could have been both their seconds going off )  1 DD for 2 BBs, fair trade to me and they could have finished my capping job AND the 2 BBs were now lo health and running.

BOTH  Green BBs sail away untouched.Scroll down for the results. and give your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both sailed away.. no thank you,  and even left the cap as it was 90% Capped so it turned RED again. After ALL of that!!?  One keyboard kid was going off about how DDs are useless and they can't do anything.   I say.. you mean except save 2BBs at once?

SO was it worth it?    Should DDs even bother risking themselves to smoke up or in any other fashion save their teammates?

 I really like working to help the team. Seeing those huge THANK YOU!!! in chat feels good.  But games like this make me want to go back to selfish play again and just farm XP.

 Has this type of teamwork died with the rest of the gameplay I came to love almost 2 years ago?

 

 

 

Without video it's hard to say the exact circumstances. But sounds like you made the right choice. The way I decide if doing something is right is winrate after your decisions. If you win more than you lose afterwards is the easy answer. You have the right thought process though 

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29 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

This applies to all classes, but never trust your teammates unless in a division. Assume the worst and plan around that.

100% correct and that's how you get purple. You plan for what you can and never get into positions that rely on team support 

Edited by eagle_lance
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Yo man, you did your job which was to  Protect your Mates and secure the win. Even though they were obvious to your efforts and their potential future. Bravo Zulu to you!!!! 

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It was worth it, but you also managed to let a DD get within 1k of you (and likely within 6km of your BB friends?) undetected.

You made a good decision, but put yourself in a situation where your best decision was death.

Edited by Telastyn

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This is really why it's a good idea  to record your games... When not sure you can look back and see if it makes sense later.... I always record then look back if something seemed is questionable.... We don't always make the right choices but always try to improve. 

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36 minutes ago, eagle_lance said:

100% correct and that's how you get purple. You plan for what you can and never get into positions that rely on team support 

Truth be told, it annoys me how often this turns out to be true, in a supposedly team game. :Smile_sceptic:

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Sounds like the right decision to me. We all know that relying on teammates to do the right thing is iffy at best, so you do yours and hope your team doesn’t do too many stupid things. Your move didn’t work that time, next time it might.

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20 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Truth be told, it annoys me how often this turns out to be true, in a supposedly team game. :Smile_sceptic:

The only consistent "team" part of this game is present in clan battles. 

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Did you 3 ever communicate what to do?
Did you tell them you were going to do (X) and support it

You made your choice and they made theirs... Teamwork is not existent in this game but on super rare occasions,  But even less without communications.

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1 hour ago, Col_Nasty said:

I will try to post this as neutrally as possible.

Situation..

T 10 Match - Islands of Ice. 

Headed to Cap C with 2 BBs in tow.  We fight off their CA and start looking to secure C.  Problem is a DD is already in the Cap.  The BBs are firing at  a Lenin and a MASS that would have them in a cross if it weren't for the Iceberg they had to hug, saving their flank.

They are stuck. Come out and the Mass Seconds will light them up and they are in a perfect crossfire.

 I KNOW there is a DD on the other side of that same Berg keeping me from capping.

Launch 2 spreads at the lenin ( 11km) to get him to back up and maybe let them out. get 4 hits , he moves.  

I peek to see what the DD is doing and it is less than 1km from me, head on, coming around the berg and is on a YOLO run to blapp both BBs.  Only thing I can do to stop it and prevent  losing the only ships holding this flank ( and they could cap C ) is to YOLO that DD without torps or Ram it as I have about 5 seconds to do something before both BBs get wrecked.

Missed the ram..not time to set it up.  Gunz Blazing  dodged first set of this torp he had to use on me instead.. got a TON of his HPs  before one of his second set got me.  He never got to touch the BBs and he was so beat up one shot from the BB finished it. ( could have been both their seconds going off )  1 DD for 2 BBs, fair trade to me and they could have finished my capping job AND the 2 BBs were now lo health and running.

BOTH  Green BBs sail away untouched.Scroll down for the results. and give your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both sailed away.. no thank you,  and even left the cap as it was 90% Capped so it turned RED again. After ALL of that!!?  One keyboard kid was going off about how DDs are useless and they can't do anything.   I say.. you mean except save 2BBs at once?

SO was it worth it?    Should DDs even bother risking themselves to smoke up or in any other fashion save their teammates?

 I really like working to help the team. Seeing those huge THANK YOU!!! in chat feels good.  But games like this make me want to go back to selfish play again and just farm XP.

 Has this type of teamwork died with the rest of the gameplay I came to love almost 2 years ago?

 

 

 

Only you can say whether you think it was worth it.

Me, I'd be happy I played my part and believe it was worth it (wouldn't have done it otherwise).

I'd have been disappointed that they didn't capitalised on the cap - but their actions are theirs to make; I can only look to my own play.

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OP I’ll try to offer what I can with no [edited]. DD was my most recent class I fell in love with. That love came from enduring painful and atrocious games and then blossoming into a capable DD captain. Here’s what I got...

 

You fell into the trap of that island. All those islands in caps are traps for DDs early on. What do I mean? If you go there to start it is very easy to get pinned there as enemy ships move forward and start popping radar. You are now no longer spotting and no longer ACTIVELY contesting. Meaning your not really effective with guns do to the island in your face and torps probably don’t have a lot of targets for that same reason. So you just kinda sit there weighing not great options. Sometimes you get out of it if your team moves up or another friendly DD in the cap takes pressure off of you.

 

My suggestion? Avoid those islands and instead act as if the enemy intends to use them. I go wide and off and torp behind those islands from the side but all the while I’m spotting and providing targets. If enemy DD is behind that island I can pin him there with torps even if I don’t hit. Then he’s not spotting and we have the advantage. Even trading a cap early for the enemy losing a ship or two isn’t bad in my book. 
 

Lastly, I wouldn’t expect a lot of validation because a lot of people can’t even tell what a DD is doing once their own battles begin. Once you get it you’ll know. Even then you’ll encounter people better than you and if you’re doing it right you’ll learn some new tricks. I learned how to DD on the French line and even after nerfs I think they’re some of the most savage ships in the game...if only they had AA. Anyway, good luck.

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2 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

They both sailed away.. no thank you,  and even left the cap as it was 90% Capped so it turned RED again. After ALL of that!!?  One keyboard kid was going off about how DDs are useless and they can't do anything. 

It's hilarious that as long as you've been playing this game, you still think teamwork is something the average potato player even thinks about, let alone indulges in! 

Remember; what's good for you is good for you. You can bet your team mates will be thinking that way.

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5 hours ago, michael_zahnle said:

I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.

He's a professional at trying to derail threads with nonsense like that and then makes it all about defending his comments the rest of the way.

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6 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

I will try to post this as neutrally as possible.

Situation..

T 10 Match - Islands of Ice. 

Headed to Cap C with 2 BBs in tow.  We fight off their CA and start looking to secure C.  Problem is a DD is already in the Cap.  The BBs are firing at  a Lenin and a MASS that would have them in a cross if it weren't for the Iceberg they had to hug, saving their flank.

They are stuck. Come out and the Mass Seconds will light them up and they are in a perfect crossfire.

 I KNOW there is a DD on the other side of that same Berg keeping me from capping.

Launch 2 spreads at the lenin ( 11km) to get him to back up and maybe let them out. get 4 hits , he moves.  

I peek to see what the DD is doing and it is less than 1km from me, head on, coming around the berg and is on a YOLO run to blapp both BBs.  Only thing I can do to stop it and prevent  losing the only ships holding this flank ( and they could cap C ) is to YOLO that DD without torps or Ram it as I have about 5 seconds to do something before both BBs get wrecked.

Missed the ram..not time to set it up.  Gunz Blazing  dodged first set of this torp he had to use on me instead.. got a TON of his HPs  before one of his second set got me.  He never got to touch the BBs and he was so beat up one shot from the BB finished it. ( could have been both their seconds going off )  1 DD for 2 BBs, fair trade to me and they could have finished my capping job AND the 2 BBs were now lo health and running.

BOTH  Green BBs sail away untouched.Scroll down for the results. and give your opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both sailed away.. no thank you,  and even left the cap as it was 90% Capped so it turned RED again. After ALL of that!!?  One keyboard kid was going off about how DDs are useless and they can't do anything.   I say.. you mean except save 2BBs at once?

SO was it worth it?    Should DDs even bother risking themselves to smoke up or in any other fashion save their teammates?

 I really like working to help the team. Seeing those huge THANK YOU!!! in chat feels good.  But games like this make me want to go back to selfish play again and just farm XP.

 Has this type of teamwork died with the rest of the gameplay I came to love almost 2 years ago?

 

 

 

I wouldn't expect many people to recognize good play even if it saves them to continue the fight. Situational awareness is not something many possess anymore.

Think you probably did fine under the circumstances. Only thing you could have done different is peak on that DD sooner if it was possible. 

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Never throw away your boat for anyone that's not in your division. 

I'm still trying to take in that lesson and apply it to every match myself, but I have noticed that when I remember to stay alive the team wins more often. 

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