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Lynx7386

Well the trial was nice... but I'm out

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After 31 hours in WoWs, I've uninstalled, and I'd like to explain why.

First off, I'm a huge naval warfare/history guy, I've been playing these kinds of games since the old school destroyer command, silent hunter, sub commander, and similar games.  I put off trying WoWs for a long time, but finally buckled a few weeks ago and decided to give it a shot.  I should've known better than to go for a 'free' game, but I was bored and wanted a change of pace.
At first, WoWs was great.  I'm a cruiser guy, I loved the cruisers early on, wasn't too interested in the BB's/DD's but did give a few of them a try.  Battleships were, as expected, far too slow for me, and DD's were too fast paced.  I'm a strategic kind of guy, I like games that require some tactics, positioning, planning, cruisers seemed to fit that pretty well, and I also tend to gravitate towards the 'jack of all trades' in any game, regardless of what the setting is.

I had fun until getting about midway through tier 4, and into tier 5, then a few things happened which led to giving up on the game:

 

  • First, the grind.  Now, I'm all for progression, but the game suddenly seems to go from "you can earn a new ship/tier every few days" to "You'll be grinding this crap for months on end to get to the next tier".  It's too steep, and too quick a transition in my opinion.  It also seems, as expected, to favor those who are throwing tons of cash at premium status, premium ships, and extra doubloons to convert free XP.  Without all of that, you might as well quit at tier 5, because you're not going to get past it if you have a life.
  • The game play also changed drastically.  Now, I had some issues very early on, and got some game play counseling from a few helpful lads through the game chat.  I had no issues with aiming, leading targets, setting up torpedo runs, etc. - all of that came pretty naturally given my past gaming experience, but I was getting killed far more quickly than I'd like, and these guys showed me through training and a few matches how to use islands for cover, more easily avoid incoming fire, where to aim to hit the citadel, some hotkeys and interface options I didn't know about, etc. etc.  That leads me to the next point:
  • There's too many 'hidden features' and not enough tutorials or tips to show you how the hell to use them.  Until these guys helped me out, I didn't even know about the quick communication menu, or how to see ship names/player names over their vessels when in a match, or how to hit the citadel on a ship.  These all seem like very important things you should be making players aware of in their first few matches, not leaving it up to trial and error or getting help from other players.  A decent tutorial would go a long way.
  • Then comes the matchmaking change... I didn't learn this until today after a lengthy rant in the in game chat lobby, but apparently your first 50 or so matches are done under a 'protected matchmaking' system, which pits you against players of similar experience/skill levels, and same-tier ships.  THIS is the entire reason my initial experience with the game was awesome, and why it so suddenly went downhill - because after those initial protected matches, the game suddenly throws you into matches with players who have been playing for years, who have premium/fully upgraded ships, who are 1-2 tiers ahead of you and basically have a complete technological and game play advantage over you regardless of tactics or how well you play.
     

That last point is the one I want to stress.  Why the HELL would you design a good matchmaking system that works like everyone expects, pitting them against similar skilled players, and suddenly yank the carpet out from under everyone by removing it and going full free-for-all?  I have NEVER played a game where the matchmaking system was that poorly done, especially when there was a better one already in place.

This one thing made the game go from fun and enjoyable to absolutely frustrating and not worth my time.  I might have been able to put up with the ridiculous grind and the constant push towards paying for advancements (you're as bad as EA and Activi$ion on this point, btw, way to go), but if this weren't a free game I'd be demanding a refund at this point for being misled.

 

Another point I'd like to make is that the game play balance, especially at those higher tiers, needs some real work.  In some aspects the ships and their behaviors are relatively realistic, but then others are far from it.  There's far too much RNG in artillery placement, some ships have nearly zero shell spread while others act like they're firing out of warped barrels.  And, rather than trying to maintain any standard of realism or balance, everything seems to follow a rock-paper-scissors design.  From the experiences I had, battleships are king, cruisers are firing pea shooters, and destroyers have to hope they get one good torpedo salvo in before they get deleted by anything else.  The balance and game play mechanics even within the same shiplines changes far too drastically between tiers as well.  I'd go from a tier 2 or 3 cruiser being an absolute machine gun to a tier 4 or 5 cruiser having ridiculously long reload times; or a lower tier ship being super fast or agile and a higher tier ship being outrun by jellyfish.  Or any other number of changes - point being, when you have a single nation's ship line and you follow it, you expect the general game play for that line to remain consistent between each tier, and it doesn't.  If I want a drastic play style change, I'll go to another nation or ship line.  Whoever was in charge of designing this just left it an absolute mess and called it a day.


Hopefully someone else comes out with a decent alternative in the modern naval warfare genre, because WoWs doesnt cut it.

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You were misinformed on the "protected MM", all that does early on is place you with bots. There is no skill MM at all in this game. (that we are aware of, or have any definitive proof of)

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You advanced to playing tier V ships on your second day in the game, and are complaining about being matched up against players who have more experience?  Stick with the lower tiers for a while, get used to the controls and the atmosphere, styles of play, etc.  Level up your commanders before moving up tier.  Try playing new ships in co-op until you earn enough XP to unlock the upgraded modules.

Your 1-day experience going so quickly to Tier V is a negative to your whole player experience.  You can advance through the lower tiers of other lines too, if you need to get the constant rush of getting new ships in just a few battles.

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Personally, I think you're giving up too soon. There are resources to learn the game, especially YouTube. It's what I still use to learn stuff about ships, even after over 4 years of playing.

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 tier 5  isn't a high tier,  lol

 

Edited by panamaz28
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10 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

You were misinformed on the "protected MM", all that does early on is place you with bots.

It also places you with new players as well. Only if it cannot find enough of those will it start slotting in bots.

So if you see a lot of bots with a new account in randoms, that just means there aren't many new players.

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He is complaining about MM. but he only was in "protected" MM..

In summery I took out of it was, this game was to complicated, the game was to fast paced, this games play style changed a lot, I was unable to learn or to keep up.. 

There for I am out... Peace...

This game is not for everyone OP... GL in playing the next "easy" game you install.

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You spent more time creating this whine thread than you did actually playing the game. 

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The same advice others gave to me, I'll pass on to you.

Don't be in a hurry!

I burned as fast as I could to a Tier 9 ship but I had a lot more fun at Tiers 5-7. I'm sucking at Tier 9 probably because I don't have the experience. 

My only complaint are the hypothetical/fantasy Russian ships that had no (or VERY LITTLE) service history but somehow seem to dominate the game. If realism is important, why not adhere to actual ships?

Watch YouTube vids. Ask questions (try to ignore some of the players that think they are demi-gods and everyone else is a filthy noob). Most people are helpful. 


 

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30 minutes ago, Lynx7386 said:

After 31 hours in WoWs, I've uninstalled, and I'd like to explain why.

First off, I'm a huge naval warfare/history guy, I've been playing these kinds of games since the old school destroyer command, silent hunter, sub commander, and similar games. 

I'm like you, a huge naval / history guy.  Unlike you, I hadn't been a gamer.  Before WOWS, the last games I played were Myst and TIE Fighter back when I was in college!  That should date me pretty precisely.

I had to buy a PC from Costco in order to play this game properly, having messed with it on a Mac in the beginning.  Again, that should tell you how much of a non-gamer I was.

The point is, if I could overcome the complexity of the game and made something of it, I really think anyone can, too.  Unless you're over 65, retired, and have used nothing other than email and browser on the computer in your life.  In that case, you still can, but just face a hurdle greater than the one I faced.

Good luck.

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I think you should stick with it.

For a freemium game, there's a lot you can do without spending much money if you play a couple hours per day. Most premium ships are about on the same power level as the tech-tree ships you can earn for free so I wouldn't sweat that part at least. If you're going to splash some cash, premium time, signal flags, and camo is the way I would go - don't bother with premium ships until much later. Understand that starting from Tier 5 you may be matched up against ships up to 2 tiers higher than you all the way until you reach Tier 10. You have to adjust your gameplay accordingly - be more cautious when you're bottom tier. 

More tutorials would be good, agreed there. 

While I agree that there are some questionable balance issues in the game, I do want to highlight this comment you made:

39 minutes ago, Lynx7386 said:

point being, when you have a single nation's ship line and you follow it, you expect the general game play for that line to remain consistent between each tier, and it doesn't. 

Honestly if the gameplay was the exact same for every ship in the tree, the game would be incredibly boring. Learning the quirks of your new ship is part of the fun and the challenge. Even with that said there is still quite a bit of consistency in style as you go up the trees with a few oddballs here and there.  

I think this game takes at least a thousand battles (if not more) to REALLY get the hang of. 

 

 

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Sorry you had a bad experience. You could do what some others have done. If your worried about your stats you could use the current account t to learn the game meta post protection time. Start a new account with your knowledge and build upon that. Nothing wrong with that at all. It is a FTP MMO. 
Some just keep their first and only account and press on. That’s what I did.

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I came here about four years ago after playing a few age of sail games, as well as World of Tanks. Many of the strategies were the same but learning all of the intricacies of World of Warships seemed almost a job. So, I went slow, watched videos, played a lot of co-op and scenario battles, and eventually made it to the forums. My averages kept increasing as I gained experience but one thing I knew from World of Tanks was get good with what you had before you move onto something new. For me Tier 5-7 was the early sweet spot as, at least for me, that was when the ships started getting fun. But, there's always a but, I took my time. That I think is your issue.

 With only about 55 random battles you're already at Tier 6 and that is way too fast. That is why your damage numbers and win rate is low. You're rushing in at the start of a match, getting spotted in the open, focus fired, and it's back to port. Since you're at Tier 6, take your ship and run scenarios. Currently 'Killer Whale' is up in the rotation and is a great way to earn experience both for your ship and captain. Get used to your ships strengths and weaknesses, speed, maneuverability, and best way to use her before going back to randoms. Look up reviews and captain skills that best accentuate the ship, Check You Tube for videos, see what more experienced people are doing that you're not. Don't give up though, learn from your mistakes and try again. 

Regardless, I wish you well. Fair Seas.

Edited by Jolly_Rodgered
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1 hour ago, Lynx7386 said:

Why the HELL would you design a good matchmaking system that works like everyone expects, pitting them against similar skilled players, and suddenly yank the carpet out from under everyone by removing it and going full free-for-all? 

Similar skilled players? Nope, not at any tier. Anyone can easily roll up an alt account and seal club away on all the noobs in the "protected" tiers. I'm a 47% player on my primary (this) account, but I'm a super unicum on my alt account in winrate, personal rating, kill/death ratio, you name it. Why? Because clubbing seals is easy. Haven't played on my alt in a while because its just dirty, but not everyone feels the same. I'd rather take some pride in digging myself out of the hole I dug early in my WoWs career.

Yeah, you're going to get beat up some until you learn the game. Giving up after only 81 matches is kinda weak, but that's just my opinion. There are plenty of resources, and plenty of folks who are happy to help you improve your play if you really want to.

Edited by Admiral_Ballsey
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I get the frustration, and honestly, don't listen to some of these people who just dismiss your observations. They only play wargaming stuff so they don't know what it's like elsewhere.

 

You're right, the guide and resources aren't intuitively built into this game like others. I'm 2k games in and still learning a lot. Like some helpful people have said, you should check out YouTube and the new player guide here.

 

The MM it's been a debated topic since time immemorial. It will split players so the difference between average win rate is no more than 8%, based off my observations. So that does mean you will get really high-level players in the same match as you. Is it fair? Probably not for the individual, but the team overall has a fair shot at winning.

It does sound like this may not be your type of game but you should reconsider and learn more about it. 

 

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31 hrs in 19 days  Happy trails 

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On the plus side, no mention of CV’s being the cause of the OP’s dismay.

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2 minutes ago, Mailman653 said:

On the plus side, no mention of CV’s being the cause of the OP’s dismay.

@Lynx7386

Lol, maybe try the tier 4 CV? I heard that the Hosho is very user friendly. AA mechanics are less complicated than everything else combined.

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@Lynx7386

Yeah, I feel you. I'm a history bluff as well and I really like warships. However, I feel that the key to mastering this game is to NOT grind. If you take the time to find the strengths and weaknesses of each ship, and play accordingly, then the experience is more enjoyable. I find that a lot of ships are fun to play in the low tiers once you figure them out. I've been playing the tier 3 Valkyrie (British DD) and found its combination of great guns and maneuverability allow you to outgun cruisers by constantly dodging their shots like a maniac. Also some ships lines are easier on beginners while some require more knowledge of the mechanics. I remember scoring my first 90k damage game in my Omaha while I was just starting. I sorta learned how to dodge shots and have fun spamming HE. The Kuma was a blast. In my first game in it, I somehow racked up 70k damage with the torpedoes. Play ships to their strengths and you will enjoy the game. The even higher tiers (8-10) are even harder; teamwork becomes more important in the higher tiers and I've seen teams mopped up because of this. I would recommend practicing in co-op, it really helps when you don't get clubbed by more experienced players.

BTW, what are the ships you are on and were trying to grind to? I can give you some pointers and recommendations on them.

Edited by Admiral_Bingo

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2 hours ago, exray0 said:

I think you should stick with it.

For a freemium game, there's a lot you can do without spending much money if you play a couple hours per day. Most premium ships are about on the same power level as the tech-tree ships you can earn for free so I wouldn't sweat that part at least. If you're going to splash some cash, premium time, signal flags, and camo is the way I would go - don't bother with premium ships until much later. Understand that starting from Tier 5 you may be matched up against ships up to 2 tiers higher than you all the way until you reach Tier 10. You have to adjust your gameplay accordingly - be more cautious when you're bottom tier. 

More tutorials would be good, agreed there. 

While I agree that there are some questionable balance issues in the game, I do want to highlight this comment you made:

Honestly if the gameplay was the exact same for every ship in the tree, the game would be incredibly boring. Learning the quirks of your new ship is part of the fun and the challenge. Even with that said there is still quite a bit of consistency in style as you go up the trees with a few oddballs here and there.  

I think this game takes at least a thousand battles (if not more) to REALLY get the hang of. 

 

 

I'd say it took me about 1k to learn the basics and feel comfy in mid-tier, 2k to feel comfy in a cruiser, 4-5k to figure out BBs, 6k to figure out high tier, and 7k to figure out DDs and (reworked) CVs.

But that's what I love about this game. There's always ways to improve if you are willing to try.

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Back when I first started playing this game WAAAAAY back in the Closed Beta, there was virtually no tutorial. I had to learn everything basically in Trial by Fire.

Now that being said, yes; there could be more in-depth tutorials to help out the new players learn the ropes and mechanics of the game. Overall, I believe you're giving up to early. The lower tiers do technically have protected Matchmaking, but only up to Tier 4. Everything after that is considered 'fair game' at that point. The lower tiers are meant for newer players to overall learn many aspects of the game generally without worrying about running into more experienced players.

Yes, there is a learning curve; especially if you jump around between the different ship classes. I believe you went through the low tiers a little too fast, and perhaps you wanted to try to get to tier 10 as fast as possible? Try playing a bit more. Try experimenting with different nations, and what 'flavor' of ship best suits your taste. Once you're comfortable with your new experience; try some of the higher tiers again.

I really didn't enjoy this game too much when I first got started, because I pretty much sucked at the game at the time; and lost a lot. It was a frustrating experience to begin with. But then I improved over time, and I'd like to think I came out pretty decent! You can figure everything out too, just may need some more time to get acquainted!

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If you want a relaxing just shoot boats game I'd highly recommend becoming more involved in playing Operations and Coop. 

Former pays out roughly 80% of randoms while coop pays around 20% but the games are quick and you can play way more aggressively than random battles allow. 

It's much slower progression but if you build up a larger and diverse fleet you can just play each ship for the first win bonus and finish daily missions and at least 2 crates without premium time. This will also give you options for grinding events like the one currently running. 

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OP is correct that in-game tutorials don't really exist, which makes it difficult for those who just want to install and get right into a game. 

But, quite frankly, that's on OP for not doing his research about the game before downloading it. 

He (or she) also fell for the fatal flaw in this and other WG titles: thinking that racing up the tiers is the point. 

If they're still here, my advice is to slow the heck down. Derp around in lower tiers and co-op, get some free stuff via Twitch drops and loot, and don't be in such a damn rush.

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So you complain about not being able to progress quickly

Then also complain about proceeding into higher tiers where you get stomped by more experienced players?

Have you ever tried staying at lower tiers and learn to actually play the game instead of trying to rocket your way to the top?

In the last paragraph I can clearly tell you still lack basic knowledge about the game, especially if you think a Battleship is "king" when a destroyer or carrier can just walk over a Battleship without any problems.

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