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thehelmsman

US Battleship split!

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Ladies and mentalgen, today we got this announcement.

Hot damn, Kansas (which appears to be a modernized refit of the 1920 South Dakota which was cancelled after the signing of the Washington Naval Treaty) looks sexy! But where are Delaware, Florida/Utah, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee?

--Helms

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My take is that the split is hypothetical that the fast BB's never happened and while they got somewhat faster than the standards they are still slow. That is my 2 cents worth so add the difference and you have a cup of coffee.

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Seems about right. It's essentially the continued evolution of USN standard-type dreadnought design philosophy, taken through the 1920s and into the 1930s. In other words, what we might have built if the Washington treaty hadn't been signed, and those ships went on to fight through WWII.

--Helms

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40 second reload is no fun, neither is sniping with 760ish speed shells.   Why didn’t they make a secondary tree, it may not be competitive but it’s fun.

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Great, more naked T7 BB's hiding behind the CV trying to snipe from across the map..  just what we needed.

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So there are a ton of US BBs that actually existed or were planned and instead of any of those we get one that COULD be the SoDak20 modernized (even though it's not using any of the names slated for those ships) and a bunch of completely made-up ships that are miles off of the US language with ridiculously high freeboards.

 

Amazing. They look awful. The only one that looks decent is the Kansas and that's because it passes as a SoDak20 modernization. But there were going to be 6 of those ships and none of them were named Kansas..

 

And what the actual fk is the Florida? Is that supposed to be a North Carolina with the originally-proposed 14" armament? Puke.. And what about the California? Considering the Florida would be basically the same ship that's better in every way that counts, is the same tier and is also a premium?

 

Meanwhile we still don't have Nevada or a proper post-Pearl refit of the Colorado since they refuse to give us the West Virginia. Which would have been a PERFECT ship for this split but noo.. The Lexingtons are still missing too. 

 

Seriously they could've taken this all the way back to tier 5 and stuck the Nevada there. 

 

This is just lazy. It makes no sense. I have no problem with fantasy boats when there are no other ships to fill that spot but that's just not the case here at all. 

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3 hours ago, ramp4ge said:

And what the actual fk is the Florida? Is that supposed to be a North Carolina with the originally-proposed 14" armament?

Just so. It's the North Carolina as ordered, before the escalator clause from the London treaty was invoked.

--Helms

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Big, cripplingly slow, relatively weak protection and high citadels, and by a significant margin the longest-loading guns in the game.

...at tiers 8-10.

 

It's gonna be great...

 

:Smile_sceptic:

 

EDIT: And those shell travel times are going to be absolutely insane.  Measured with a calendar instead of a stopwatch.  So you'll have to get in close just to have a chance to hit anything, but at 23 knots?!  At those tiers?!

Just, ugh WG...  :Smile_facepalm:

Edited by Kuckoo

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Typical, people whine as first reaction... I think they look pretty cool, it'll be a different twist to high tier BBs, which are all currently bigger and fast speed. 

They obviously have to be reasonably tough if they are going to be that slow. The smaller size would make them harder to hit too. 40 second reload is a lot, but with 12 guns what you have to do is just never fire your whole salvo at once and space your firing. 

 

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On 7/4/2020 at 11:24 PM, rpgotaku said:

40 second reload is no fun, neither is sniping with 760ish speed shells.   Why didn’t they make a secondary tree, it may not be competitive but it’s fun.

The secondaries might not be bad. The Massachusetts has the same 5"/38s as most USN ships tier 8+, but WG chose not to nerf its range and ROF as much as on other USN ships, so secondary specs actually work on the Massachusetts. The new line wouldn't have quite as many secondaries as the Massachusetts (8x2 instead of 10x2), but it's really the range and ROF that make Massachusetts work.

Overall, the rudder speeds and turn radii on the on the new ships need to be changed to be more comparable to the Colorado, otherwise people will be forced to camp at the map edge with them. New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Wee Wee, etc. can all afford to steadily (and very slowly) push because they are agile. They can turn to avoid torps, duck behind an island, angle their armor, expose a broadside to shoot then angle it to take a hit, etc.  They aren't the best BBs for pushing and brawling, but they can react and adapt. They need to react and adapt since they are so slow that every enemy will always dictate the terms of engagement.

The reload times probably need to be changed too. Broadside damage is just not that important, since it'd so dangerous to go broadside in a 20 knot ship. Slightly slower reload than other USN BBs makes sense, but only by like 5 seconds.

I think WG underestimates how big a disadvantage the speed is. Even at tier 7, the Colorado needs to spend most of the match advancing to the middle of the map or risk being too far from wherever the enemy decides to fight and tier 8-10 see bigger maps more often. These ships will never be able to go to a different part of the map to meet or avoid the enemy, so they need to be very powerful if the enemy chooses to go where they are.

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16 hours ago, inktomi19d said:

I think WG underestimates how big a disadvantage the speed is. Even at tier 7, the Colorado needs to spend most of the match advancing to the middle of the map or risk being too far from wherever the enemy decides to fight and tier 8-10 see bigger maps more often. These ships will never be able to go to a different part of the map to meet or avoid the enemy, so they need to be very powerful if the enemy chooses to go where they are.

Speed is life at high tiers.  Unless these BBs have other-worldly AA and massive Torpedo Reduction, they will not be able to keep up with support for protection and get farmed to death.  Not to mention its MUCH easier for HE Flameslingers to adjust their hose on ships barely moving.  Just sayin,,,

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I could get along with slow battleships with a ton of firepower behind a 40 second reload. But the lack of armor according to the leaks I seriously don’t agree with, battleships without the ability to shatter HE have such difficulty surviving that the Montana line just has better survivability then there is The British and French that get compensated for their lack of armor.

 

It’s a bummer as I actually like the standards. You would think something of that size would at the bare minimum out tank the fast battleship line.

 

well, fortunately because this is a game where Georgia, Massa, and Alaska exist, these are guaranteed to be buffed by quite abit. However they don’t exactly raise armor all that often, so I’m probably not going to go down yet another 32mm line.

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On 7/6/2020 at 12:33 PM, Carl_the_Cuttlefish said:

Typical, people whine as first reaction... I think they look pretty cool, it'll be a different twist to high tier BBs, which are all currently bigger and fast speed. 

They obviously have to be reasonably tough if they are going to be that slow. The smaller size would make them harder to hit too. 40 second reload is a lot, but with 12 guns what you have to do is just never fire your whole salvo at once and space your firing. 

 

We have a legit gripe. in fact they could have used Iowa class BB for the split for a faster alternative . But people like you who lick WG boots view the game with blinders

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On 7/7/2020 at 5:54 PM, inktomi19d said:

The secondaries might not be bad. The Massachusetts has the same 5"/38s as most USN ships tier 8+, but WG chose not to nerf its range and ROF as much as on other USN ships, so secondary specs actually work on the Massachusetts. The new line wouldn't have quite as many secondaries as the Massachusetts (8x2 instead of 10x2), but it's really the range and ROF that make Massachusetts work.

Overall, the rudder speeds and turn radii on the on the new ships need to be changed to be more comparable to the Colorado, otherwise people will be forced to camp at the map edge with them. New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Wee Wee, etc. can all afford to steadily (and very slowly) push because they are agile. They can turn to avoid torps, duck behind an island, angle their armor, expose a broadside to shoot then angle it to take a hit, etc.  They aren't the best BBs for pushing and brawling, but they can react and adapt. They need to react and adapt since they are so slow that every enemy will always dictate the terms of engagement.

The reload times probably need to be changed too. Broadside damage is just not that important, since it'd so dangerous to go broadside in a 20 knot ship. Slightly slower reload than other USN BBs makes sense, but only by like 5 seconds.

I think WG underestimates how big a disadvantage the speed is. Even at tier 7, the Colorado needs to spend most of the match advancing to the middle of the map or risk being too far from wherever the enemy decides to fight and tier 8-10 see bigger maps more often. These ships will never be able to go to a different part of the map to meet or avoid the enemy, so they need to be very powerful if the enemy chooses to go where they are.

They don't underestimate it.  They just ignore it.  Historical accuracy is shelved for a significant number of ships in this game.  With the exception of American Standards.  The strict adherence to historical accuracy regarding speed is rather egregious.

Even buffing the standards by two to three knots or just flat bumping them to twenty four knots would go far in redressing things.

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On 7/31/2020 at 9:33 PM, Duma said:

They don't underestimate it.  They just ignore it.  Historical accuracy is shelved for a significant number of ships in this game.

This. Historical accuracy was stretched for gameplay purposes beginning with the German battleships (which got fictional refits that gave them ahistorical speeds), and then completely went out the window with the French. There is simply no excuse for gimping the USN battleships to 21 knots all the way up to tier 7, any more. Texas, Oklahoma, and Arizona can be stuck at 21, but New York and New Mexico should be going 22.5-23, and Colorado and California should be going 23.5-24.

--Helms

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Just based on the information given in the article, and knowing that this is “new” and “subject to change”, I’m hoping the speed stats are stock, that turn bleed off will affect them minutely, and that there is an upgrade for them. Additionally, again basing this on knowing these aren’t supposedly final numbers, even if the outer plating is only the dreaded full 32mm, hopefully these things have some of the most “RUSSIAN BIAS!!!! PLZ NERF!!!!!” level armor for their belts, citadels, and turrets, meaning they only really are damagable via regular pens while Cits are only dreams for the opposition. We also don’t have any real information on the upgrades for these ships as we progress through the grind, so the horrors of the given numbers may be resolveable. Their secondaries also don’t have any accuracy or RoF stats given, so it’ll be a toss up if they have the Premium US BB secondaries ala MASS, GEORGIA, and OHIO, or the boring secondaries of the tech tree. Additionally to all this, we don’t have much if any info if they’ll get preferential treatment to their consumables. Unlikely, but possible to make them more palatable to those players who don’t click with the Standard Doctrine that Tier 3-7 plays. I have little hope that these won’t be HE farms with their broadside firepower being their only positive feature, but as these are WiP, there may be some light at the end of the tunnel.

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What is this S%#$!!!! WG is comping up with ??? A joke!  

 

Also, watch the below video, please. I don't know where WG got this above tech line.  It's nothing near where the Late Senator Tillman and War Dept. was going at the time. 

 

 

Edited by Kestrel_Falcon

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Speed, needs to be improved, everything but the New Mex and Colo can outrun these ships.

Armor, 32mm When you can face Smolensk, Atlanta/Flint, Colbert, Des Moines/Salem, Cleveland and many other HE spaming ships with IFHE, at least the citadels are well protected.

2ndary armaments, With the speed and reload of this ship 40Sec, a 5-6km 2ndary range will not work ranges more akin to the germans might be required for competative play.

AA, with the current meta CV's are op and will farm these ships hard. might be able to shoot down half a squadron but that is it.

Main Guns, Aside of the rate of fire and poor sigma the best trait of the line by far.

Detection, May be pointless to take the Concealment mod these things can be seen from orbit with it installed.  

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I think they look super sexy nice and thicc  but wow if the Colorado was anything to go by these ships are almost guaranteed to suck sugar free lollies

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