Shikishima vs Bourgogne

[fierymountain]

Finally saved up enough steel, thinking about getting one of the tier 10 battleships.  Any suggestions between Shikishima and Bourgogne?

Thanks.

[Tekina_]

Shikishima is a worse Yamato. If you want that style of gameplay just get Yamato.

[mfumukoskoldpadda]

5 minutes ago, fierymountain said:

Finally saved up enough steel, thinking about getting one of the tier 10 battleships.  Any suggestions between Shikishima and Bourgogne?

Thanks.

Bourgogne 1000%, way better choice.

Shikishima is just a worse Yamato with GOD LIKE GUN SOUNDS but that's essentially it. For power and carrying potential Bourgogne. For ear music Shikishima.

[DJC_499]

48 minutes ago, mfumukoskoldpadda said:

GOD LIKE GUN SOUNDS

God-like guns sounds you say, humm, I am intrigued.....

[macktkau2]

It's real name should be Shikismemea.

It's a meme ship.

Meme main guns.

Meme secondaries.

Meme gun sounds.

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

40 minutes ago, macktkau2 said:

It's real name should be Shikismemea.

It's a meme ship.

Meme main guns.

Meme secondaries.

Meme gun sounds.

Lol even more meme worthy if you have a Anime Captain in the Shikishima. 

[Bortt]

Bourgogne Hands down. It's been around a while and has been tried and tested and is a strong ship in both randoms and competitive. It as a bit of a higher skill ship in understanding ammo types and when to use HE vs AP. However it's carry potential is so much higher.

[Tekina_]

1 hour ago, DJC_499 said:

God-like guns sounds you say, humm, I am intrigued.....

They are the one aspect of it that is amazing. You can hear them echo from quite a distance. 

 

[hyuuu]

2 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

Shikishima is a worse Yamato. If you want that style of gameplay just get Yamato.

Not sure why people keep perpetuating this myth that Shikishima is worse than Yamato.

If you actually start watching what top level players like O7 can do with Shikishima, you will find out it performs quite well above Yamato in many aspects.

The alpha difference is huge. It does in fact overcome the number of barrels here.

Two full pens? That's 12k damage that can't be stopped.

Three pens out of six? That's 18k, more than a Yamato citadel damage that can happen even when a target is angled.

Just one citadel of 19k is absolutely devastating to any ship even if the guns don't bring anymore overmatch than Yamato.

The accuracy is on par with Yamato with Legendary mod AND you can still take reload mod.

Lastly, those secondaries. Range can get up to GK levels and they are basically harugumo guns. Shikishima is a capable ship of an effective secondary build and YouTube videos out there have proved that. 

Personally my pick would be Shikishima over Bourgogne, though it is a playstyle preference as both are strong in their own ways. My perception is that Bourgogne lacks the armor to sustain a push and mostly relies on speed boost flanking to be effective. 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

1 minute ago, hyuuu said:

Not sure why people keep perpetuating this myth that Shikishima is worse than Yamato.

If you actually start watching what top level players like O7 can do with Shikishima, you will find out it performs quite well above Yamato in many aspects.

The alpha difference is huge. It does in fact overcome the number of barrels here.

Two full pens? That's 12k damage that can't be stopped.

Three pens out of six? That's 18k, more than a Yamato citadel damage that can happen even when a target is angled.

Just one citadel of 19k is absolutely devastating to any ship even if the guns don't bring anymore overmatch than Yamato.

The accuracy is on par with Yamato with Legendary mod AND you can still take reload mod.

Lastly, those secondaries. Range can get up to GK levels and they are basically harugumo guns. Shikishima is a capable ship of an effective secondary build and YouTube videos out there have proved that. 

Personally my pick would be Shikishima over Bourgogne, though it is a playstyle preference as both are strong in their own ways. My perception is that Bourgogne lacks the armor to sustain a push and mostly relies on speed boost flanking to be effective. 

I agree and plus as the other high tier French BBs prove, the AA can be stripped down quite rapidly in some battles where as those heavy IJN mounts on the Shikishima will be far more resistant to being destroyed. Add in the fact the Shikishima compares very favorably to a fully operational AA Bourgogne and you get a good AA platform which is a growing consideration these days. And also the new AP rockets are said to be able to pen about 32mm of armor which is what a Bourgogne is covered in.

[USS_Taylor_Swift]

1 hour ago, hyuuu said:

Not sure why people keep perpetuating this myth that Shikishima is worse than Yamato.

If you actually start watching what top level players like O7 can do with Shikishima, you will find out it performs quite well above Yamato in many aspects.

The alpha difference is huge. It does in fact overcome the number of barrels here.

Two full pens? That's 12k damage that can't be stopped.

Three pens out of six? That's 18k, more than a Yamato citadel damage that can happen even when a target is angled.

Just one citadel of 19k is absolutely devastating to any ship even if the guns don't bring anymore overmatch than Yamato.

The accuracy is on par with Yamato with Legendary mod AND you can still take reload mod.

Lastly, those secondaries. Range can get up to GK levels and they are basically harugumo guns. Shikishima is a capable ship of an effective secondary build and YouTube videos out there have proved that. 

Personally my pick would be Shikishima over Bourgogne, though it is a playstyle preference as both are strong in their own ways. My perception is that Bourgogne lacks the armor to sustain a push and mostly relies on speed boost flanking to be effective. 

I like how everyone chiming in saying "Bougogne hands down" or "Shikishima is a worse Yamato," have neither ship.

[Ares1967]

4 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

Shikishima is a worse Yamato. If you want that style of gameplay just get Yamato.

I remember when Musashi was released.... "Musashi is a worse Yamato..."

 Being worse than something great can still be pretty special.

 

[Tekina_]

2 hours ago, hyuuu said:

Not sure why people keep perpetuating this myth that Shikishima is worse than Yamato.

If you actually start watching what top level players like O7 can do with Shikishima, you will find out it performs quite well above Yamato in many aspects.

The alpha difference is huge. It does in fact overcome the number of barrels here.

 Two full pens? That's 12k damage that can't be stopped.

Three pens out of six? That's 18k, more than a Yamato citadel damage that can happen even when a target is angled.

Just one citadel of 19k is absolutely devastating to any ship even if the guns don't bring anymore overmatch than Yamato.

The accuracy is on par with Yamato with Legendary mod AND you can still take reload mod.

Lastly, those secondaries. Range can get up to GK levels and they are basically harugumo guns. Shikishima is a capable ship of an effective secondary build and YouTube videos out there have proved that. 

Personally my pick would be Shikishima over Bourgogne, though it is a playstyle preference as both are strong in their own ways. My perception is that Bourgogne lacks the armor to sustain a push and mostly relies on speed boost flanking to be effective. 

Alpha? In favor of Yamato. Shikishima only wins on a per shell basis. That falls apart when you realize that Shikishima only gets a maximum of 6 barrels. Never mind that the increased pen means you get more overpens. The secondaries are pointless on it since it's the Yamato hull complete with weak cheek that gives free citadels against anyone that knows what they are doing if you try to use them. 

 

57 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

I remember when Musashi was released.... "Musashi is a worse Yamato..."

 Being worse than something great can still be pretty special.

 

Musashi is a worse Yamato... at tier 9 which makes it broken. That's massively different from being a worse Yamato at the same tier that costs steel to get.

[Skyfaller]

2 hours ago, hyuuu said:

Not sure why people keep perpetuating this myth that Shikishima is worse than Yamato.

If you actually start watching what top level players like O7 can do with Shikishima, you will find out it performs quite well above Yamato in many aspects.

The alpha difference is huge. It does in fact overcome the number of barrels here.

Two full pens? That's 12k damage that can't be stopped.

Three pens out of six? That's 18k, more than a Yamato citadel damage that can happen even when a target is angled.

Just one citadel of 19k is absolutely devastating to any ship even if the guns don't bring anymore overmatch than Yamato.

The accuracy is on par with Yamato with Legendary mod AND you can still take reload mod.

Lastly, those secondaries. Range can get up to GK levels and they are basically harugumo guns. Shikishima is a capable ship of an effective secondary build and YouTube videos out there have proved that. 

Personally my pick would be Shikishima over Bourgogne, though it is a playstyle preference as both are strong in their own ways. My perception is that Bourgogne lacks the armor to sustain a push and mostly relies on speed boost flanking to be effective. 

Because Yamato is better and its free.

Main guns: 

Yamato: 9x 14.8 AP , 7.3 HE

Shikishima: 6x 19.4 AP, 8.1 HE 

 

Now do some simple math and we will assume absolute 100% accuracy and that all hits are citadels for AP and for HE that they all hit and did full damage.  

Yamato: 133k 9 citadel salvo AP, 65.7k HE

Shikishima: 116k 6 citadel salvo, 48.6k HE

OH SNAPS Shiki is not even CLOSE. 

Shiki guns do have highe penetration rate and while it may not look like much, it does result in noticeably higher overpens when hitting ships like cruisers and thinner armored BB locations that Yamato would 'pen' while Shiki overpens. So even here the Shiki loses damage output. 

 

Now, secondaries is the one thing Shikishima has over Yamato. Shiki secondaries are godlike in comparison. They are just fantastic. They real good to deal with destroyers and cruisers and can put hurt on BBs as well. 

... but ... to get them working you have to angle the Shiki. 

Problem with that? You're giving your secondary-gun target a clean, easy shot at your IJN-hate-code implemented cheek citadel. Most cruiser AP at 10km or less will citadel you there. So... to get secondaries to put a few thousand damage on a cruiser you have to allow them to citadel you and do significantly more damage in return than your secondaries put out. 

 

Overall, for 32k steel all you're buying is a gimped Yamato when it comes to main guns, equipped with secondaries that while good in range and rof and damage, you would need to risk your ship's citadels big time... and the only 'saving' grace is the fact your AA is truly amazing compared to Yamato. 

 

Yamato is a better choice over Shiki. Its ridiculous Shiki is priced in steel...this should have been a coal ship. 

 

So OP , the frog BB is much better choice for the price in steel. Shiki is only worth getting if you 'collect' IJN. 

[TheArc]

5 hours ago, fierymountain said:

Any suggestions between Shikishima and Bourgogne?

I've not been impressed with what I've seen and heard about the Shik, and I do love my Bourgogne :P

[dollar_99_for_guac]

I'm not sure why people are recommending the Bourg, after the cruiser plating changes the ship is simply not worth playing.

A pre nerf alsace with 12 380mm guns, even with the good shell ballistics and pen of the french bbs, simply cannot perform at tier 10 anymore. The only thing you do is punish broadsides and spam HE at angled targets. Wait a minute, that sounds like what the Thunderer does! Because the thunderer does everything the bourg does, except it does it better. Sure the reload booster on the bourg can help you kill something if you rush it, but that is dangerous at the best of times, and downright suicidal for your ship at worst. I have the bourg, and before the plating changes it was very fun, and I suppose you can argue it is still very fun. But with the, honestly, awful HP pool for a tier 10 bb (like 75K or less, cause I don't remember off the top of my head) and with thunderers being is the game, it is very hard to justify getting the bourg over anything else.

The shikishima however, is kinda of like the thunderer. Low barrel count but reasonably good accuracy that allows you to hit things. And while you don't overcome any important threshold by going to 510mm shells, your damage output is incredible. I would never recommend using a secondary build, simply because modern day world of warships is a HE spam fest, meaning that you're unlikely to do much with those secondaries by the time you'd want to use them. Yes the gun sounds are fantastic, but overall you want to get a ship that will perform will in world of warships today, and I do not see how you can pick a 380mm gun equipped bb over one equipped with 510s.

[DEWEY_96_]

3 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

They are the one aspect of it that is amazing. You can hear them echo from quite a distance. 

 

 Like 3/4 away on the map... And you crap your pants the first time you hear them and not know what they are.  

 

I do NOT have the Frenchy but did test the Shik…. and my feed back every time was negative.  IF the guns hit and IF they don't OP then you'll get decent damage, but nothing spectacular like you'd think out of 510mm guns... Honestly I'd rather take a Montana and run the chance of getting 2 or 3 citadels in a salvo due to volume of shells than only 1 citadel when 1 of your 6 shells hit.  The range is similar to the Yammy but not as useful as you lose 3 guns.  

I won't be spending my steel on a shik if that means anything.

[MinkeWhale]

I would much rather have shik. I'm much more afraid of shik. 380s are much easier to mitigate. Even with 2x the shells. 

I'll probably get neither. 

My next steel ship will be Somers.