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Toxygene

DD, A pointless class

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It doesn't really matter anymore if WG puts in more 12 km radar ships, or any more CV's. DD's are already made obsolete as a class in T8-T10 battles. Is it possible that they can't see what they've introduced all those x-ray vision stuff at the expense of the whole DD class?

 

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You will undoubtedly get a lot of salty responses to your post, but, as a DD main, I can say that it is still possible to get good games. I've been frustrated with the plethora of radar (though islands still?!) and CVs, and, even though everyone intimates that it's easy to change how you play for the current meta, it can still be hard to do so.

What line are you grinding through, or are you up to Tier 10 across the board?

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DD are so obsolete they can easily win games when there are no CV.

 

Radar and hydro are not an issue

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1 hour ago, Toxygene said:

It doesn't really matter anymore if WG puts in more 12 km radar ships, or any more CV's. DD's are already made obsolete as a class in T8-T10 battles. Is it possible that they can't see what they've introduced all those x-ray vision stuff at the expense of the whole DD class?

 

Oh look, another DD player that wants to play and OP and uncounterable type of ship.  Gee wiz, I've never seen one of those before.

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DD's remain the most influential class in the game, even at high tiers.

The added difficulty of CV's, radars, and other threats, combined with DD's having the most extreme consequences of mistakes, plus DD's being responsible for some of the most important aspects of the game like spotting, screening, and capping, is the reason for this. 

In effect, their vulnerability makes them more important, because good DD players will keep their ships alive and influencing their team towards a win till the end, while the poor DD's die early and thus heavily influence their team towards a loss.

So they are very much not pointless, and if you like winning games and are a good player, DD's are a good pick.

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Allow me to be clear - I say Radar needs a proper fix/countermeasure beyond 'stay out of range' because the island nonsense is a problem, I've been calling for HVAR and FFAR since the rework beta, now RP-3 as well rockets to be nerfed, for most DD's to get an AA buff and increased module HP, and that IJN's torp line needs the torpedo spotting unnerfed on all but the Shimakaze (other than hey need to lower the detection range on stock torps) and am still 110% against the new modernization that sets all torp spotting range to 1.8 km.

And I still racked up some decently high damage games in my brand new Daring. Knocked out the 105k spotting mission that I couldn't in my CV's thanks to all the nerfs to how far they get credit for spotting and some of the insane AA teams I encountered. And I'm not a DD main, typically, I play BB's more, especially after the rework (I find the gameplay boring as hell and mostly play them for missions and data/feedback collection - RTS needed to be fixed but this is worse), followed sort of by CV's and Cruisers and then DD's. DD's are far from useless. 

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Shima never hurt anybody. WYY you heff pick on Shima torps? TOO MUCH bad nerf to adorable cute ship.

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1 hour ago, AlcatrazNC said:

DD are so obsolete they can easily win games when there are no CV.

 

Radar and hydro are not an issue

They can be the difference even in CV matches and to @Toxygene the action time of those 12 Km radars is so short that other ships will be unlikely to be able to make use of it and even the using ship will be lucky to get of more than a couple of shots.

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DDs have their role. Other ships have their role.

I laugh when many pat the DD on the head and say 'but you're the most influential ship type'.

They are no more influential than any other ship type - but are no less influential either.

They depend on support and a good team, just like any other ship type; they have their role.

 

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1 minute ago, BrushWolf said:

They can be the difference even in CV matches and to @Toxygene the action time of those 12 Km radars is so short that other ships will be unlikely to be able to make use of it and even the using ship will be lucky to get of more than a couple of shots.

The big problems are they can get the radar extension module, to give the radar duration a boost, and then if there are 1 or more CVs in the match the CV aircraft then typically go zeroing in on the DD if Radar picked it up, and often can even swap out planes and reach the DD in time to take over for the radar cruiser. Other bad outcomes are you have 2 or more Radar ships that synchronized their radar, you could have gunboat DDs converge on your torpedo boat DD, or to a lesser extent you could have your targets realize your around and they will expect torpedoes and will go into evading torpedoes mode instead of clueless mode.

The bigger problem as I created thread for this is if subs get added with their current submerged sporting abilities and that gets combined with 12km Radar ships and CVs then you’ll have the real problems in the game.

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Truth lies in the middle. Yes, DDs have it tough with the influx of more and more radar, the existence of ships with enormous alpha and DPM potential (SAP anyone?) and of course CVs. While these make battles more challenging, a well played DD can easily tip the balance.  And believe me, I almost exclusively play DDs at tier VIII+.

So no, not a dead class. That said, a bone thrown in the form of boosted spotting earnings wouldn't hurt.

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Most powerful class in the game, but sure, it's pointless. :cap_book:

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I wouldn't say that DD's are pointless, though in the current meta they can be a lot more frustrating to play.  It may be due to the times of day I typically play, but I am seeing fewer DDs in most of my matches and even some with no DDs at all.  So it seems that at least some DD players may be avoiding the class these days.  The no DD games are kind of funny in a pathetic sort of way, as all the cruisers and BBs just kind of mill about waiting for someone to attempt to cap.  Personally, I don't mind radar so much as the CV vs DD interactions.  Radar I can normally mitigate or wait out, but even with a solid AA bote like Halland there isn't much you can do against a determined CV.

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The only thing clubbing DD are cv and sadly there is nothing i can do to counter cv, radar is easily mitigated by staying outside of radar range but its very easy to dodge shells when you are radared. 

Next time you get radared dont just do the predictable full speed run away slow down and change your speeds to dodge shells, you will never be worried about radar ships ever again.

if you would like i can record myself playing DD to demonstrate how to easily avoid shells while radared or just generally spotted.

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To all:

A lot of people have good points.  I would not say the DD class is pointless.  I was just in a T10 game yesterday with my Gearing where two DDs (myself in second position) were the top of the leader board at the end of the battle for our team and a Halland was top of the leader board for the enemy team.  I completed the 95k damage from torps mission in the 4th directive and scored 170k for the battle.  Had a Midway on both teams and they had 3 radar ships and we had 2 on our team.  I had to dodge more than I like whenever the Al Netsky (probably spelled wrong) lit me up with radar and it especially got dicey when the Worcester and Al teamed up with radar.  Boot scooted it hard then with speed boost engaged.  Even when the team collapsed on my flank and myself and one other player were all that was left to protect the flank, we kited and kept them busy while the team on the other side was able to roll that side and join us in the fight.  We won, but it was a close one.

I do see the poor DD play and usually play DDs in ranked because of it.  I may not be the best DD player, but I can definitely do more than rush forward to die in the first 2 minutes of the game the majority of the time (not that I have not died quickly in a game, it does happen, but not that often).  I do try to spot and cap areas to help the team.  Sometimes, I do not know until it is too late how many enemy are present and if I am lucky, escape with a small amount of health left.

I see the DD class as a class that requires the right mind set to make work well for the team in any situation.  As many people have said, any ship can be OP in the hands of the right captain.  I have seen (not very often) someone use an Omaha and literally dominate a game with 7 kills (once, I know it was a kraken plus so it may have been 6, but I thought it was 7) and still have half or more of their hp at the end of the game.  DDs are not that difficult, but you have to be very aware of what is going on especially on the mini-map because you can get into trouble quickly being that close to the enemy team.

So in conclusion, DDs are not pointless, but they do take the right person or type of person to make them work well.  You could say the same about CVs.  When I play them it is rare when I am at the top of the leader board.  Others can make them farm damage like no ones business.

C130 signing out

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I ranked out in the sprint in lightning, primarily. Faced cv more often than not and I had a great season. Only took 25 battles and saved many stars so dd are not pointless if you learn how to play against a cv

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Learn to play DD before making such a silly post.

They are in NO WAY shape or form pointless and others have pointed out why.  Making a post like this is either a Fishing expedition or Someone who refuses to learn how to adapt and overcome in ever-changing meta's.

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11 minutes ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

I ranked out in the sprint in lightning, primarily. Faced cv more often than not and I had a great season. Only took 25 battles and saved many stars so dd are not pointless if you learn how to play against a cv

Having twice as many smokes as all other dd's isn't much of an argument I get your point, especially in a ranked sprint environment but the one DD that can pop smokes like tic-tacs and has hydro isn't an argument that should be used concerning overall DD play.

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8 hours ago, Toxygene said:

It doesn't really matter anymore if WG puts in more 12 km radar ships, or any more CV's. DD's are already made obsolete as a class in T8-T10 battles. Is it possible that they can't see what they've introduced all those x-ray vision stuff at the expense of the whole DD class?

 

There are a couple of issues with DD's and mainly the reasons I switched to playing Cruisers.

1) DD's take work. you have to keep your head on a swivel and know just about every detection range, torp range, gun range hydro and radar range and duration, AA on or off when to activate.... and on on on. Spotting, when to smoke a teammate, when to fire when to stay dark.........To be a good DD player you have to be invested and knowledgeable. 

2) Virtually impossible to drink while playing DD. If you aren't dodging, you are shooting  or a million other things...impossible to enjoy a cold beer or scotch playing DD. Play slow loading Super Cruisers or BB's get big hits and never feel as if your booze is being rushed.

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12 minutes ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

Having twice as many smokes as all other dd's isn't much of an argument I get your point, especially in a ranked sprint environment but the one DD that can pop smokes like tic-tacs and has hydro isn't an argument that should be used concerning overall DD play.

Not sure my other post went but anyway. So should we also not count dds with def aa or heals or radar or damage saturation mechanics? Some dds are better cv counters than others but they all can make a big impact on a game with a cv

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9 minutes ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

Not sure my other post went but anyway. So should we also not count dds with def aa or heals or radar or damage saturation mechanics? Some dds are better cv counters than others but they all can make a big impact on a game with a cv

Agreed. I am not arguing that DD's are useless, just the opposite. It's just that they take a lot more work to play well and even survive compared to their bigger cousins.

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1 minute ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

Agreed. I am not arguing that DD's are useless, just the opposite. It's just that they take a lot more work to play well and even survive compared to their bigger cousins.

I see, and agreed. It’s probably the most challenging class skill wise.

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Until dd’s are properly rewarded for one of their main roles, scouting and screening for the fleet, they are forced to try and farm damage which gets them focused and killed.

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8 hours ago, Toxygene said:

It doesn't really matter anymore if WG puts in more 12 km radar ships, or any more CV's. DD's are already made obsolete as a class in T8-T10 battles. Is it possible that they can't see what they've introduced all those x-ray vision stuff at the expense of the whole DD class?

Oh I donno. We definitely have to play around the radar, and encourage our team to nuke them ASAP if they want us to be able to really participate in matches. The MM loading in screen with a DD is more important than probably any other class... is there a CV, how many radar cruisers... if I'm in a DWT DD, how many actual targets... but late match a good DD is hugely important no matter what's up. I am curious how the spotting change testing will turn out, and I do with the spotting time that radar gives was a bit shorter (change the 6 second delay to 50% of radar time and see how that works...) but I still do fine in my DDs and I'm not a unicum player.

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