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Ensign_Cthulhu

On the recent proliferation of 11-point collaboration captains.

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Warhammer 40K - the Admiral packs and megabundle give 11-point commanders.

Hololive: the two commanders offered for purchase have 11 points.

Let's get away from the cost, the commanders' visuals and what the collaboration actually is for a minute, and ask the question: does that eleventh point actually make that much of a difference?

Specifically: what are you going to do with eleven points, the instant you put them into their intended ship, that you can't do with ten? Remember also that to retrain an 11-pointer to a tech-tree ship costs you an extra 5000 elite commander XP (or 2500 if you pay the 200K credit fee).

The only other ship I know of that comes with an 11 pointer is the Shinonome, from the Honorable Service campaign. Maybe they did it to be able to take PT and PM, LS, SE, CE on a destroyer all at once? In terms of accelerating your progress towards a 19 pointer, however, it takes a mere 87,000 CXP out of a 1.708 million CXP grind. 

Is it no more than a trap for the unwary?

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38 minutes ago, Antean said:

 

You know, there are more constructive ways to say "this is not a good deal". 

Also, there are costs and overheads associated with maintaining this game in existence as well as developing it.

Criticising WG for simply wanting to make money is a move born of ignorance and entitlement, which is why it's something I've got very little time for; even less so when people doing it employ the tone and words you did.

Constructive criticism of the way in which it chooses to make it is another matter. I will happily debate that all day, so long as it doesn't involve agenda-laden words like "lootbox" and "gambling". Throw those around like confetti and I will start to question your underlying motivations.

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Extra point for incoming fire alert bro. 

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32 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Warhammer 40K - the Admiral packs and megabundle give 11-point commanders.

Hololive: the two commanders offered for purchase have 11 points.

Let's get away from the cost, the commanders' visuals and what the collaboration actually is for a minute, and ask the question: does that eleventh point actually make that much of a difference?

Specifically: what are you going to do with eleven points, the instant you put them into their intended ship, that you can't do with ten? Remember also that to retrain an 11-pointer to a tech-tree ship costs you an extra 5000 elite commander XP (or 2500 if you pay the 200K credit fee).

The only other ship I know of that comes with an 11 pointer is the Shinonome, from the Honorable Service campaign. Maybe they did it to be able to take PT and PM, LS, SE, CE on a destroyer all at once? In terms of accelerating your progress towards a 19 pointer, however, it takes a mere 87,000 CXP out of a 1.708 million CXP grind. 

Is it no more than a trap for the unwary?

I don't understand what's the issue.

The collaboration commanders, at least these four, come with unique voice packs. Ultimately, that's the real differential from where I'm standing: uniqueness among standard captains.

And that extra point is nice for Preventative Maintenance.

Edited by SeaShadowAR

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I imagine the the 11 points is to make them stand out, a simple and effective way to do it really. 

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38 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Warhammer 40K - the Admiral packs and megabundle give 11-point commanders.

Hololive: the two commanders offered for purchase have 11 points.

Let's get away from the cost, the commanders' visuals and what the collaboration actually is for a minute, and ask the question: does that eleventh point actually make that much of a difference?

Specifically: what are you going to do with eleven points, the instant you put them into their intended ship, that you can't do with ten? Remember also that to retrain an 11-pointer to a tech-tree ship costs you an extra 5000 elite commander XP (or 2500 if you pay the 200K credit fee).

The only other ship I know of that comes with an 11 pointer is the Shinonome, from the Honorable Service campaign. Maybe they did it to be able to take PT and PM, LS, SE, CE on a destroyer all at once? In terms of accelerating your progress towards a 19 pointer, however, it takes a mere 87,000 CXP out of a 1.708 million CXP grind. 

Is it no more than a trap for the unwary?

Personally in my opinion the performance of an 11 point captain is no different than a 10 point. Only thing it does is help with the cost of getting to 12 points which is where you start seeing better performance as many ships really need 2x of 2 point skills. So a 12 point captain  on a BB for example can get you either PT or PM depending on preference, then EM, AR, SI, and CE. Which a 10 point captain you would have to give up either EM or AR to use them. So at least in my gameplay I notice a sign difference in gameplay performance, which now why I moved minimum captains from 10 to 12 points.

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8 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Extra point for incoming fire alert bro. 

Oh for sure, but then it puts off and makes more difficult anything else you choose to do after that. i.e. if the next thing you want is RPF, for example, you now have to research points 12 to 15, instead of 11 to 14, and getting the fifteenth point takes significantly longer (unless you are mad hardcore grinder with lots of time on their hands or have more ECXP than God). 

8 minutes ago, SeaShadowAR said:

I don't understand what's the issue.

The collaboration commanders, at least these four, come with unique voice packs. Ultimately, that's the real differential from where I'm standing: uniqueness among standard captains.

And that extra point is nice for Preventative Maintenance.

I know what you mean, but for me the aesthetics and the perks aren't as important as the captain points and the talents; and to me, the extra 1000 doubloon cost equivalent isn't worth the one extra captain point, the looks and the voice mod.

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Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...

Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?

Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.

Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?

Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?

Marty DiBergi: I don't know.

Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?

Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.

Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.

Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?

Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.

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Many if not most of our collabs are literally us reaching out to other companies or them reaching out to us to do collaborations. So we do them, to both help each other and we know our community are fans of the various collabs we do. So there is more content. If people don't care for them, they don't have to get them.

-Hapa

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22 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You know, there are more constructive ways to say "this is not a good deal". 

Also, there are costs and overheads associated with maintaining this game in existence as well as developing it.

Criticising WG for simply wanting to make money is a move born of ignorance and entitlement, which is why it's something I've got very little time for; even less so when people doing it employ the tone and words you did.

Constructive criticism of the way in which it chooses to make it is another matter. I will happily debate that all day, so long as it doesn't involve agenda-laden words like "lootbox" and "gambling". Throw those around like confetti and I will start to question your underlying motivations.

Take a chill pill.

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9 minutes ago, Antean said:

Take a chill pill.

I'm perfectly chill.

What happened to your post that I replied to, by the way? Even the quote of it is gone. 

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4 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

What happened to your post that I replied to, by the way? Even the quote of it is gone.

Who knows? I don't recall editing it tho it might have been in another thread. Maybe the Thought Police removed it.

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23 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

does that eleventh point actually make that much of a difference?

 

Um...yeah. One less point to grind out. Who cares if you cannot use it right away. It's a captain you will max out faster than if it came with 10 points. 

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1 minute ago, General_Lee_Miserable said:

Um...yeah. One less point to grind out. Who cares if you cannot use it right away. It's a captain you will max out faster than if it came with 10 points. 

For sure. The question is whether that's worth the equivalent of an extra thousand dubs, because in terms of actual function that's all you're paying the extra for.

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29 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

For sure. The question is whether that's worth the equivalent of an extra thousand dubs, because in terms of actual function that's all you're paying the extra for.

To me? Maybe. I like unique captains with interesting voice overs. You have to look at the whole package and from differing perspectives. 

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23 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You know, there are more constructive ways to say "this is not a good deal". 

Also, there are costs and overheads associated with maintaining this game in existence as well as developing it.

Criticising WG for simply wanting to make money is a move born of ignorance and entitlement, which is why it's something I've got very little time for; even less so when people doing it employ the tone and words you did.

Constructive criticism of the way in which it chooses to make it is another matter. I will happily debate that all day, so long as it doesn't involve agenda-laden words like "lootbox" and "gambling". Throw those around like confetti and I will start to question your underlying motivations.

It's a "marketing distinction" gimmick as part of the collaboration @Hapa_Fodder mentioned above....  A way to distinguish product content with a hook that catches your eye.  No more and no less.......  Well done in my opinion; even though, I do not plan to participate with those products.

 

If you want a "safe" discussion by limiting "trigger words", then I would not suggest that anyone whom has a harsh reply is "ignorant or entitled...."  Especially, right now.  Whether that person whom set you off is wrong does not constitute the need for using the same tactics..........  Criticism is in and of itself is supposed to be what "you individually believe is wrong"......  Constructive is "subjective" and is based on your expectations that might be the polar opposite of those whom "criticize"....  Free speech is a valued right and "it's an advanced citizenship" component: neither easy, nor safe, nor something with simple rules.... 

So, am I entitled because we often disagree???  Gosh, that's a dark path my friend......

 

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

For sure. The question is whether that's worth the equivalent of an extra thousand dubs, because in terms of actual function that's all you're paying the extra for.

As with any new toy: does it work for you !  It will grab those in our community that enjoy the other game.  A sales gimmick and of "some value" and that, is another subjective choice.....  Some call these type of collaborations:  "I like" sales events....  We must have a good percentage of our game population that play that game.........so, the collaboration works for that percentage because it's what the recognize as value.....

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36 minutes ago, General_Lee_Miserable said:

To me? Maybe. I like unique captains with interesting voice overs. You have to look at the whole package and from differing perspectives. 

Oh for sure. Hey, I know the ultra-weebs will be falling over themselves to get this - and if you are fluent in Japanese (for the Hololive captains) it's an extra bonus.

I was deliberately looking at it from the purely functional point of view because I know that while some people do like to buy captains from the premium shop, some of them don't like the weeb or Warhammer aspect very much, and will turn it off in filters and reduce it to Generic Captain the minute they get it into port.

By all means, if you think the look and the voiceovers are worth the extra thousand dubs, go for it. Just be very clear in your own mind about WHY you're spending the extra and what you expect from it. (I listened to the voice samples, and as someone who does actually have weeb captains, this was like nails on a blackboard by comparison.)

4 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

If you want a "safe" discussion by limiting "trigger words",

I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say - which is that use of the words I mentioned suggests to me that the user is bringing a predetermined agenda to the table that they will not be swayed from by any form of logic. Under those circumstances there can be no fruitful discussion; the best that can be hoped for is to agree to disagree. 

7 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

So, am I entitled because we often disagree??? 

No. But Antean's post I originally said those words about has now been removed - even the quote of it - so I can no longer dissect it for you to show exactly why I reacted to it in the way that I did. 

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say - which is that use of the words I mentioned suggests to me that the user is bringing a predetermined agenda to the table that they will not be swayed from by any form of logic. Under those circumstances there can be no fruitful discussion; the best that can be hoped for is to agree to disagree. 

No. But Antean's post I originally said those words about has now been removed - even the quote of it - so I can no longer dissect it for you to show exactly why I reacted to it in the way that I did. 

I did not have the chance to read the post.  I just worry that trigger words can seriously harm your content that helps many.  I'm old enough to see the distinctions of intent and knew you were using them to paint........ Others though.......

 

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I got one of the new girl captains. The voice is interesting and I was thinking about getting either a Dasha or a historical IJN captain anyway. I have the "teddy bear" one from some event and the voice is really bad.

I think Expert Loader is only one point should you need to change ammo quickly. Or you don't have to assign that point until you have enough for the next skill you want.

Anyway the captain was cheaper than the Champagne and probably more useful to me.

 

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45 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

It's a "marketing distinction" gimmick as part of the collaboration @Hapa_Fodder mentioned above....  A way to distinguish product content with a hook that catches your eye.  No more and no less.......  Well done in my opinion; even though, I do not plan to participate with those products.

You’re on point here. But there is a little more to it. 
 

WG has a lot of data on what they’ve sold and will offer new sales to determine the marginal profit in slight or even large changes to offerings. It’s how retailers determine the content, price and scarcity that maximizes profit. 

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