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Hapa_Fodder

ST 0.9.7, Unique Upgrades

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For me the funny part was counting the number of times Bonus was added before the word nurf.

 

Spoiler

I now know why WG changed the name of legendary Upgrades to UU.

 

Unusable Upgrades

 

Edited by Pebcac
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Kleber could be interesting for the memes, though with the amount of counters running around at tier X I don't see what you get over Halland. Besides Kleber exists for the AP memes.

Harugumo looks helluva interesting, especially if you pair it with the smoke upgrade.

What I definitely not like is stuff like extra damage being part of unique upgrades, but that's just me.

Regardless, if only you could get the Upgrades through the old system and not via RB because if you want one, you gotta have access to RB, so you gotta have 5 tech tree tier Xs. At least there should be some consideration in changing the rule for accessing RB.

Edited by warheart1992
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Zao is a joke, like Devs get stuffed up in vodka and then begin a squat group convo on how to make the game more ridiculous.

Why don't you invest more time onto making the game more playable regarding basic mechanics like spotting or see through mountains radar. 
 

Not even Counter Strike is this arcadish at this point of gaming history.

Edited by IgnisFatuus
further info added
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Quote

 

 YAMATO Current upgrade

  • -7% maximum dispersion of main battery shells
  • -6% main battery reload time 
  • -19% main battery traverse speed 

< THE NEW AND IMPROVED UPGRADE (?) > 

  • -7% maximum dispersion of main battery shells (implied as it is not mentioned as being removed)
  • Main battery traverse speed penalty reduced from -19% to -13%, iow - a 13% reduction in turret rotation timing

This upgrade gave two bonuses: DPM and accuracy, and it was too effective. After the change, the UU will offer a clear choice between these two parameters.  (formatted/edited for clarity)

 

Removed the bonus which lowered the main battery reload time by 6%. So the reload will be same as every other non-UU Yammy. 

Don't use the UU and have stock disperions, reload and traverse timings, or use the UU and reduce traverse time and dispersion. 

I'm clearly missing something here - where's the choice? 

 

Clearly - but not sure why - you guys are on an anti-Moskva run now, too. Weird. 

You must adore the Montana UU, right? Bleh. 

Ask me my opinion about UU's. I would suggest you through throw them all out and simply apply the changes directly to the ships. Glad I stopped grinding for them. 

Edited by Herr_Reitz
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10 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Removed the bonus which lowered the main battery reload time by 6%. So the reload will be same as every other non-UU Yammy. 

Don't use the UU and have stock disperions, reload and traverse timings, or use the UU and reduce traverse time and dispersion. 

I'm clearly missing something here - where's the choice? 

 

Clearly - but not sure why - you guys are on an anti-Moskva run now, too. Weird. 

You must adore the Montana UU, right? Bleh. 

Ask me my opinion about UU's. I would suggest you through them all out and simply apply the changes directly to the ships. Glad I stopped grinding for them. 

Yamato's was probably OP, and needed nerfing. This may be over nerfed, and if that's the case, it will eventually get a lesser rebuff.

On some other notes, Daring gets a crappy UU since it is super stealth dependent and absolutely can't sacrifice concealment in slot 5. On the other hand, Harugumo has an interesting UU as, like Minotaur, it can use its UU in conjunction with smoke mod 1 to convert to crawling smoke. Certainly makes tier 10 more interesting.

BTW, CVs finally getting their UUs back! Midway is going to start so many fires now...

Edited by Shannon_Lindsey
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I do not intend to do the reset of lines so the UU are not of great concern.

However, it was my thought that they were supposed to give an alternative way of playing (an equal but opposite if you will).

Having looked through the UUs, I wouldn't touch the majority with a barge pole. To many negative aspects, where is that 'Wow! That is a Unique and different way of playing the ship that may surprise the enemy. I'm going to totally regrind everything for that UU!'?

It just isn't there with the majority (and that's from someone who isn't even going to regrind!). :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_
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1 minute ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

BTW, CVs finally getting their UUs back! Midway is going to start so many fires now...

Of course the stats (probably) show people aren't playing her like they used to play her? 

I haven't taken my Midway to a tier X random battle since last November, iirc. I play Kaga these days. 

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3 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I do not intend to do the reset of lines so the UU are not of great concern.

However, it was my thought that they were supposed to give an alternative way of playing (an equal but opposite if you will).

Having looked through the UUs, I wouldn't touch the majority with a barge pole. To many negative aspects, where is that 'Wow! That is a Unique and different way of playing the ship that may surprise the enemy. I'm going to totally regrind everything for that UU!'?

It just isn't there with the majority (and that's from someone who isn't even going to regrind!). :Smile_honoring:

What you do is wait until you have free XP saved up to push through an entire line, then do the reset, free XP to each ships, get the points, then free xp up and repeat until you have earned all the points. Think of it as an alternative way to spend free XP once there are no more free xp ships you want. It's what I would be doing if I wasn't saving up for Smalland.

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Just for those who are interested...

With the UU, Kleber detectibility goes to ~6.2 (w/full build), base reload is 12.6 seconds :Smile_trollface:

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Fact: Kleber with UU still has a faster main gun reload time than what Mogador had historically.

Edited by Rolkatsuki
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46 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

What you do is wait until you have free XP saved up to push through an entire line, then do the reset, free XP to each ships, get the points, then free xp up and repeat until you have earned all the points. Think of it as an alternative way to spend free XP once there are no more free xp ships you want. It's what I would be doing if I wasn't saving up for Smalland.

:Smile_honoring:I appreciate the advice, but as stated the UU do not seem worth the FXP/Grind to me.

Also I'd rather use FXP on FXP ships :)

Also I can now earn the research points with the daily missions.

 

That's why it just seems not worth it (to me).

 

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41 minutes ago, Rolkatsuki said:

Fact: Kleber with UU still has a faster main gun reload time than what Mogador had historically.

Yeah, the French 139's were known for having mechanical issues, at least early on.

The UU could be fun, 6.2 detect is managable. But the reload gets gutted. I guess w/BFT and MBRB it would have okay burst, but that would be about it.

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Z-52: putting lipstick on a pig

Mino, Groz: will change nothing

Yamato, Zao, Moskva: Oof

Daring: forgetting torpedo boats need concealment to work as torp boats

Kremlin, Kleber: I need help deciding which is worse

Haragumo: creeping smoke on crack

CVs: you really have no idea how to balance CVs do you?

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Z52 - The change gives her a boost to Torpedo power sure but when competing with ships like Benham, Halland its difficult to see if it's enough. Her whole gimmick was the hydro and the ability to contest caps like no other DD. Useful if you want a safer play style I'd say.

Grozovoi - Can't really speak much to her UU change. Looks interesting

Moskva - usually are pretty static so the turret traverse might not be as big a nerf as dispersion, but I wish they kept it at 11% dispersion so you could still slot Main Battery Mod 2 in slot 3 to offset the turret traverse nerf.

Minotaur - Seems like a good pick, sure you can't max your concealment but you have the ability to crawl smoke which is always nice.

Zao - Too strong needed a nerf, I like the change.

Yamato - I'm slightly upset that any viable Slot 6 Upgrade will always nerf her already poor turret traverse. 

Daring - 6.8km concealment for better torpedo power? Idk what's the deal with pushing DDs even FURTHER from cap contesting. 

Kleber - I kind of snorted when I read this, I mean sure you get a torpedo focused playstyle but the entire rest of the line was gunboating and your captain is probably built for that. Odd to say the least since she has 8km torpedoes, I'd at least consider giving her 9km torp range with the UU like Marceau has.

Harugumo - Better than American smokes and crawling, pushing the crawling smokes idea heavily  as well I see. Pretty useful as converting her into a Artillery platform if you want to just sit and farm BBs. Again, pushing DDs away from the caps (not that Haru was every good at it but still).

Kremlin - I like this one, -1 consumables to Kremlin is a huge obstacle all for a 27 sec reload which is still slower than most BBs at the tier. Will anyone take it? I doubt it, I'd rather have seen a Kremlin nerf where she loses one charge of DCP permanently. 

CVs - Can't really talk about these cause CVs confuse me.

This is from an average player who hasn't seen the early days of the game. Sure some UUs were super strong and I'm personally happy that some were brought back to balanced states (cough cough Zao) at the end of the day, there just seems to be a big push to crawling smokes? (why?) and pushing DDs away from cap circles (also why?). The message of bringing these UUs down to a sidegrade seems really well implemented however, some unfortunately so (Kleber). I'd rather have nerfed UUs as a player than overpowered ones where only a very small minority can have access to them regularly. 

The Research Bureau isn't going anywhere so at the very least player can still be competitive without the requirement of an UU for every ship.

 

 

Edited by LaviKabos
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17 minutes ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

I guess w/BFT and MBRB it would have okay burst, but that would be about it

The issue is that the French DDs have always been starved for Captain skills this just makes it that much harder to alleviate them and would just prop their weakness up a bit, if you go for the UU I'd say build Kleber all in as a torpedo boat.

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Just another weight on the scale between "Should I stay" or "Should I go". 

The few UU's I had already earned from the old method are: 1. useless from the get go and never employed 2. Useful but about to be nerfed to being close to the same value as a normal 6 slot upgrade 3. The ship was nerfed to make the UU a stone collar on it's game play ( Henri ). 4. Initially desirable but  denied usage for over a YEAR and now the replacement is just silly ( Midway ).

Yeah, Ii would regrind a line now to only obtain a ship in the RB, the UU's aren't worth the time at all.

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Kremlin:

  • -1 charge to consumables.
  • 18% reload buff
  • 12% range nerf.
  • Replaces the Slot 6 mod which is already going to have Main Battery Mod 3 with the 12% reload buff.

Trade a heal, a damcon and 12% of your gun range to get 6% reload speed and 13% turret traverse. That's I think, a 1.75 second boost to the reload? That doesn't seem worth it.

lmbo. No-one in their right mind is going to take this.

I can only assume this is deliberately trash to avoid accusations of Russian Bias.

I still think WG would have been better off making UU's a special slot 7 upgrade, so that they could have smaller bonuses that make them easier to individual tune, or simply provide a single specific buff that can be put onto any ship.

If you want to play "aggressive" like the UU text says, you're better off just building a non-concealment ultra-tank build with the consumable timer length mod in slot 5, the coal damcon slot 1 mod, and then a captain build with fire prevention, superintendent, basics of survivability, jack of all trades & high alert.

Meanwhile Hakuryu gets a flat upgrade. Because that's that carrier needs.

Edited by macktkau2
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I can see my kleber pr going way up, I hope everyone uses the kleber uu. Haru one looks kinda broken, no downsides whatsoever. Audacious uu...sub 10km surface detect? Definitely gonna grab the haru uu if it doesn't change. All other new ones look kinda meh.

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@Hapa_Fodder Important Question:

Have we heard how the new CV UUs will affect folks that already have them in inventory (for context I got mine from when they were still mission based)?

Will it simply get changed to reflect the new UU or be removed and have to be purchased via the Research Bureau? And if it has to be repurchased through the Bureau will we be credited Research Points for having the old version?

Edited by CommanderMullins

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You guys want to make players regrind everything just to get legendary modules that are turned into mediocre "alternate play-style" garbage? And why do some ships get better advantages than others when they are in the same class? It's almost as if you singularly hate every ship I like, go figure.

Wargaming, if you want players to spend valuable research bureau points (that take a crapton of effort to accumulate) on these modules instead of the pretty awesome RB ships you can already get, then you will need to make the legendary modules more OP not "alternate". And don't downgrade what players already had (or where able to use for years before newer players could get them) because the garbage spreadsheet data says so. This mediocre approach is far too communist for our tastes.

Edited by MudRaker227
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A good test to see if an upgrade is balanced or not is to see how many ships it’s equipped on... most of the updated upgrades (downgrades really) will be removed and you will see that people who own them don't use them. This means it’s not BALANCED very well. Perfect example from original bunch was Republiq... shave 5 sec off reloading and loose 6km range.... making it a slow shooting heavy cruiser with only 8 barrels. NO one plays it = bad unbalanced upgrade (clear downgrade) A much better UU would have been to trade better accuracy and dispersion for slower rate of fire... as in real life.

Edited by AtlasRand
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