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otakuben

So what is the best way to combat multiple radar's?

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Working on getting better at DD's and the biggest problem I run in too is radar. One ship on a team having it is one thing and I can wiggle my around avoiding it. How do you deal with it if there are 3-5 enemy ships with radar? (not hydro)

What's the best way to make yourself useful in that situation?

I have a german tier 8 DD and japanese tier 10 DD (shimakaze)

I usually like to get closer than the maximum range of my torps in my shima to make sure the hits are more consistent but it feels like with radar that's a lost cause and many are smart enough to know vary your speed and zig zag to avoid stealth torps.

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1) Learn to identify all ships that can equip radar and ALWAYS assume that they did.

2) Do not listen to the dolts who start calling you names because you won't rush into the cap in the first 2 minutes.

3) Memorize number 1!

4) Help spot from safe range ALL ships but stay on those Radar ships  as long as possible as long as they are actually shooting at them.

5) BURN number 1 in your brain!!

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Just watch twitch/youtube flamu/flambass how they handle DDs. You should be able to pick up some tricks. One thing for example is when radar is close stay near an island; you can just hide behind it and though you will be detected you can avoid taking damage while radar is active. Simple but effective.

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9 minutes ago, otakuben said:

Working on getting better at DD's and the biggest problem I run in too is radar. One ship on a team having it is one thing and I can wiggle my around avoiding it. How do you deal with it if there are 3-5 enemy ships with radar? (not hydro)

What's the best way to make yourself useful in that situation?

I have a german tier 8 DD and japanese tier 10 DD (shimakaze)

I usually like to get closer than the maximum range of my torps in my shima to make sure the hits are more consistent but it feels like with radar that's a lost cause and many are smart enough to know vary your speed and zig zag to avoid stealth torps.

Best way to combat radar is use Gearing or Shima with torpedoes  that can be launched beyond 12km Radar range.

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Considering the options, as a high tier DD player... The rules of battles have changed compared to mid and low tier DD play... So I suggest...

  • staying 12km away from any red radar cruiser spotted on the mini map
  • Never cap unless your fleet clear it for capping for you
  • Some DDs have good AP performance against cruisers, use it.
  • Try not to be the first ship spotted.
  • Try to survive the intense chaos of the first 12 min of the match

Other then that.... You options are limited...

GL

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I'm going to make video series on dds, I see a lot of bad dd play..... To your question I first off look at the teams page to see how many and what type of radar they have, hydro, and what dds out spot me.... Next as I'm heading towards cap I notice any radars seen on the mini map and make a mental note to how many are left.. If I do not know where radars are I DON'T Cap.  I'm a capper but I need to find the boogie men first.... If I'm heading towards cap most the time I head at an angle so I can turn as soon as I can to avoid sitting in radar.i always have an island or exit . Your ship is more important to the team than an early cap.... If I do cap when radar is close I'll back into cap... Then if radared hide then note how long till hell have radar again... Yes its alot. Lol.. There is  obviously more but this is a start... It's fluid so kinda like a flow chart... My YouTube channel is Meta_man2002 check it out 

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Either battleships blapping the radar boats, or DDs anticipating them and staying out of their emission range - or at least being positioned to quickly get out of range when beamed.

That's all you can hope for.

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It depends a lot if you have CVs in the match or not.

Depending on map and deployment I would work one of this 2 ways:

  • Work always near hard cover. You'll get radared but if you limit the amount of ships that can shoot at you at any given time, it doesn't matter if you are spotted or not.
  • Work on a flank. The idea is to limit the amount of ships that could possibly detect you at any given time by working along the flanks.

In any case you want to get those ships taken out ASAP, so the job is to try to keep them spotted as much as you can without risking your ship in excess. You can also try to bait them to come and chase you, if they overextend and/or leave hard cover, your team may deliver some punishment on them. It all boils down to try to have them located and either avoid them or seek a way to get them out of the game or at least out of the area where you want to operate. Being patient and ready to exploit errors and openings is the way if you want to survive.

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10 minutes ago, otakuben said:

Working on getting better at DD's and the biggest problem I run in too is radar. One ship on a team having it is one thing and I can wiggle my around avoiding it. How do you deal with it if there are 3-5 enemy ships with radar? (not hydro)

What's the best way to make yourself useful in that situation?

I have a german tier 8 DD and japanese tier 10 DD (shimakaze)

I usually like to get closer than the maximum range of my torps in my shima to make sure the hits are more consistent but it feels like with radar that's a lost cause and many are smart enough to know vary your speed and zig zag to avoid stealth torps.

Simple:  avoid Random or Ranked battles in a DD.

1)  There are far too many radar ships in the game now.  And, no way to fight back against "a foolproof consumable"......or, evade it...........or, out run it.

2)  You won't have to listen to the Dolts if you are playing COOP.

3)  Remember 1) and 2) and stick to COOP where you can make the same amount of value in three matches in the time it would have taken to play one Random.  Why be frustrated attempting to do something that makes so little....

4)  All spotting does is "give others the value you are risking for."  All they are shooting at is what's the easiest for them.........their efforts have nothing to do with supporting the DD risking everything.  Learn that and burn that in.....

5)  Learn not to waste your time in this game.  All Randoms do is frustrate people because of HUGE stomps because of Radar and Planes.  Wait till Subs get in there........jeeze, what a mess.

A good many of us gave up Randoms and Ranked and stick to COOP because I can earn the same "value" by playing more game and having fun doing so !!!  Why play a game that frustrates you at every turn???  Just my Opinion....

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38 minutes ago, otakuben said:

Working on getting better at DD's and the biggest problem I run in too is radar. One ship on a team having it is one thing and I can wiggle my around avoiding it. How do you deal with it if there are 3-5 enemy ships with radar? (not hydro)

What's the best way to make yourself useful in that situation?

I have a german tier 8 DD and japanese tier 10 DD (shimakaze)

I usually like to get closer than the maximum range of my torps in my shima to make sure the hits are more consistent but it feels like with radar that's a lost cause and many are smart enough to know vary your speed and zig zag to avoid stealth torps.

Identify them - this should be easy, as you should know who mounts radar and who diesn't

Stay away from them.

If you can't stay away, get them to burn the radar for little to no effect - and then move into the area.

 

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24 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

I'm going to make video series on dds, I see a lot of bad dd play..... To your question I first off look at the teams page to see how many and what type of radar they have, hydro, and what dds out spot me.... Next as I'm heading towards cap I notice any radars seen on the mini map and make a mental note to how many are left.. If I do not know where radars are I DON'T Cap.  I'm a capper but I need to find the boogie men first.... If I'm heading towards cap most the time I head at an angle so I can turn as soon as I can to avoid sitting in radar.i always have an island or exit . Your ship is more important to the team than an early cap.... If I do cap when radar is close I'll back into cap... Then if radared hide then note how long till hell have radar again... Yes its alot. Lol.. There is  obviously more but this is a start... It's fluid so kinda like a flow chart... My YouTube channel is Meta_man2002 check it out 

Think Fish Bone diagram.  A strategy canvas is another good tool when researching what the Radar market can or can not do.....  But, I can only say that there is no real value playing a DD in the current meta.......none.  Because, in most cases, you can't fight back directly and win.........more than you lose....  So, why even try>?    Have you ever seen a division of radar ships work together???  It's not a long time because the DD they are using is usually a DD with 5.4 or 5.5 detect as a screen.....  Then the second ship illuminates on contact with the screen and the process repeats itself till the enemy DD flees or dies....  It really works quite well.....  Be sure make a note about Radar ships and DD's from the same clan.....

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38 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

1) Learn to identify all ships that can equip radar and ALWAYS assume that they did.

2) Do not listen to the dolts who start calling you names because you won't rush into the cap in the first 2 minutes.

3) Memorize number 1!

4) Help spot from safe range ALL ships but stay on those Radar ships  as long as possible as long as they are actually shooting at them.

5) BURN number 1 in your brain!!

Totally agree here. I always look at the red team to identify radar. Capping early in a Shima without significant cover is suicidal. People well tell that you aren't capping as they run the other way or camp behind an island where they can't cover you anyway.... ignore them all.

IMO think more about being stealthy and know that you become far more valuable later in the game after everyone else has done a yolo and been blapped. Stay at distance unless you know for sure the radar ship isn't in the area. Patient and careful play rewards... especially for Shima. 

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51 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

1) Learn to identify all ships that can equip radar and ALWAYS assume that they did.

2) Do not listen to the dolts who start calling you names because you won't rush into the cap in the first 2 minutes.

3) Memorize number 1!

4) Help spot from safe range ALL ships but stay on those Radar ships  as long as possible as long as they are actually shooting at them.

5) BURN number 1 in your brain!!

+1 for this. 

#5 can't be emphasized enough.

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9 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Think Fish Bone diagram.  A strategy canvas is another good tool when researching what the Radar market can or can not do.....  But, I can only say that there is no real value playing a DD in the current meta.......none.  Because, in most cases, you can't fight back directly and win.........more than you lose....  So, why even try>?    Have you ever seen a division of radar ships work together???  It's not a long time because the DD they are using is usually a DD with 5.4 or 5.5 detect as a screen.....  Then the second ship illuminates on contact with the screen and the process repeats itself till the enemy DD flees or dies....  It really works quite well.....  Be sure make a note about Radar ships and DD's from the same clan.....

I'm not here to argue with you, my destroyers continue to win and winrate in my dds are actually going up... The answer to that is there is getting a bigger gap between good and bad dd play.... If you play dds like you did before the added radar and  re-emergence of cvs you won't win as much as you could... The game is dynamic, it changes. What worked a year ago is a losing strategy today..... I love to look at games and find different ways to to win. 

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Identify all actual or possible radar ships and take the fight to them.

DDs are supposed to spot, so go to the flanks and spot.

Ideally, get a radar ship between your DD and other red ships and open up with guns.  Starting at a couple of hundred meters inside gun/radar range, you can often fire several salvos while turning out to disappear before a radar ship can even bring guns to bear.

Radar ships often park behind islands, so wait until they use their radar and run in to drop torps at near-maximum range.

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1 hour ago, otakuben said:

Working on getting better at DD's and the biggest problem I run in too is radar. One ship on a team having it is one thing and I can wiggle my around avoiding it. How do you deal with it if there are 3-5 enemy ships with radar? (not hydro)

What's the best way to make yourself useful in that situation?

I have a german tier 8 DD and japanese tier 10 DD (shimakaze)

I usually like to get closer than the maximum range of my torps in my shima to make sure the hits are more consistent but it feels like with radar that's a lost cause and many are smart enough to know vary your speed and zig zag to avoid stealth torps.

Like was posted earlier you have to lean the radar ships and keep track of them as much as you can.

If you can't remember, Assume all USN at T7+cruisers have radar. Assume all Soviet cruisers T8+ have radar. Assume all UK CLs T7 plus have radar. Assume all Pan Asian DDs T8+ have radar. Ranges are normally 12km for Soviets, up to 10km for the others. Some other ships like Missouri and Black have radars as well. 

There are a few exceptions to this. A couple of USN T7 cruisers can't mount radar, most potential radar ships can mount something else instead of radar, and some non-Soviets have ranges shorter than 10, but the 10/12 will keep you safe until you remember what each ship potentially has. Assume each ship listed above has a radar until you are sure it doesnt.

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Situational awareness is the best way. Know what ships have radar, their range and duration, be aware of their position as much as possible, try to be aware of if the radar has been used recently or not. 

 

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1 hour ago, Col_Nasty said:

1) Learn to identify all ships that can equip radar and ALWAYS assume that they did.

2) Do not listen to the dolts who start calling you names because you won't rush into the cap in the first 2 minutes.

3) Memorize number 1!

4) Help spot from safe range ALL ships but stay on those Radar ships  as long as possible as long as they are actually shooting at them.

5) BURN number 1 in your brain!!

 

1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

Considering the options, as a high tier DD player... The rules of battles have changed compared to mid and low tier DD play... So I suggest...

  • staying 12km away from any red radar cruiser spotted on the mini map
  • Never cap unless your fleet clear it for capping for you
  • Some DDs have good AP performance against cruisers, use it.
  • Try not to be the first ship spotted.
  • Try to survive the intense chaos of the first 12 min of the match

Other then that.... You options are limited...

GL

I would also add know how long it lasts. The 12Km Russina radars are very short lived, like two volleys max so you mostly only have to worry about the using ship. The longer lasting radars are the ones that will get you killed if you position yourself badly.

Know the range and try to bait them into using their radar which except against divisions you have a good chance of getting more than one to bite. During their cool down you don't have to worry about those ships.

Always have an exit strategy when approaching where radar is likely to be.

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52 minutes ago, Meta_Man said:

I'm not here to argue with you, my destroyers continue to win and winrate in my dds are actually going up... The answer to that is there is getting a bigger gap between good and bad dd play.... If you play dds like you did before the added radar and  re-emergence of cvs you won't win as much as you could... The game is dynamic, it changes. What worked a year ago is a losing strategy today..... I love to look at games and find different ways to to win. 

Perfect post.

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There is 1 absolute thing you have to know about radar: THE RADAR ITSELF DOES NOT DO ANY DAMAGE

What radar does, however, is negate your concealment advantage for a short amount of time

As a destroyer, you still have various other advantages such as maneuverability and positioning

Use those and simply fight the radar cruiser, that's all there is to it. Radar isn't a threat to DDs as long as you don't position in such a way that your life depends on concealment.

 

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32 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

There is 1 absolute thing you have to know about radar: THE RADAR ITSELF DOES NOT DO ANY DAMAGE

What radar does, however, is negate your concealment advantage for a short amount of time

I don't think even the newest of the new players think radar does direct damage.

When focused,  even 15 seconds is MUCH longer than a DD can survive with it's TINY Health Pool. Now we have 25 second PLUS and 12KM... 

Your last point means all DDs must hug Islands to be safe and thus not do 80% of their jobs and spot.  Can't spot while in islands.  

It's great if you want to play selfish and mute all of the salt in chat. I would rather help my team and learn how to stay out of Radar range.

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Before battle:

1) Print out or save this to your desktop: 

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Surveillance_Radar_Data

2) When the teams are loaded, consult the data above, identify the radar ships, and memorize their radar distances.

During battle but before contact:

3) Do not rush into unknown.  Advance carefully by keeping an island between you and the empty ocean, or by keeping track on mini-map where the closest island is.  Plot your course so that if you are spotted by DD or a radar cruiser, you can break away without having to make a 180-degree course change (too slow!).

If you spot a red radar ship:

4) Keep away from its radar distance.

If you are spotted by a red DD:

5) Assume you are in gun range of a red cruiser.  Start evading and heading for cover.  If you are already in cover, make sure you are in really good cover, meaning, no cruiser can possibly fire on you.

By this point in battle, you should have already spotted some red ships (hopefully, a red radar cruiser among them).  And hopefully, your teammates (CA / BB / CV) are already working on eliminating them.

Study the map and see where you can now ambush the reds / take the cap.

 

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At game start: a) Don't touch "W" for 2 full minutes. b) Print the list of radar ships. c) Look at the minimap to locate the radar ships while not touching "W". Then slowly work yourself into the game avoiding the radar ships. 

Now you can touch the "W" key. But keep a hand close to the chicken key (that's the "S" key).

Note: You only have to print the radar ship file once.

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Call focus fire on enemy radar ships often, as soon as they are spotted, and every time they are spotted - F3 "Attention" is your friend for this. Call for help in chat to kill the enemy radar ships.

If an US cruiser, especially a Des Moines, is posted behind an island near a cap, you have to be very careful, attempt to cap only if you can do it safely, ex., with island cover.

I'm having more trouble recently with RU cruisers due to the proliferation and sheer numbers. Fortunately they can be spotted from far away, but 12km radar covers a large area and they are fast so that they can move into range before you can finish capping.

Yes, the current meta is difficult for DDs, and some games are extremely frustrating with multiple CVs and multiple radar ships. But in most games, you still have the opportunity to have a major impact on the game, even if DD play is more difficult than it was in the past.

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