How do you Co-op players generate enough credits?

[Lylanthwol]

I've been playing a bunch more Co-op lately for various reasons (easier to rack up ribbons for Naval Battles, you can grind daily missions/dockyard fast, I'm grumpy and hate people; you know, the basics)

From working on Rank with a Bismarck I ended up with enough exp to unlock an FDG.  Figured I'd try it, see if its as bad as advertised.  Blew through 20-some-odd million credits buying her and fitting out the upgrade modules.  Then I really figured that it would not be a good idea to jump into Randoms with a stock memebote (running secondaries) and holy moley the credits!  -15k here, -12k there, +3.2k over yonder.  Which brings me to my question.

How do you feed the credit bottleneck playing exclusively Co-op?  I'm burning through flags wholesale just to keep her from losing ground when fiddling with her.

[Navalpride33]

By playing naked with premium time..

[Captain_Slattery]

Play mid-tier to earn the credits you will need to pay out for high tier play.

With premium, tier 8 is the last tier you can earn credits consistently.  Without premium, tier 7 is.

 

 

[ArmoredFrostX]

Premium account, signal flags that add credits and reduce service cost, and play really well. You can also buy a permanent camo to help reduce service cost. 

[MidnightPhoenix07]

Premium time, and some combination of high tier premiums or tech tree permacamos. More or less the only times I run flags in co-op is for xp (+50% only) on certain ships I’m just grinding in co-op, and the +20% credit flag I’m running on Worcester for the credit stage of the LM mission combined with the daily mission credit stage. 

[Lert]

Higher tiers are more expensive to run. This is by design, to encourage the sales of premium time and premium ships. You can stack credit earning camouflages and signals, or play lower tier ships too earn credits to fund higher tier play.

[Estimated_Prophet]

45 minutes ago, Lert said:

Higher tiers are more expensive to run. This is by design, to encourage the sales of premium time and premium ships. You can stack credit earning camouflages and signals, or play lower tier ships too earn credits to fund higher tier play.

This; and not sucking, in whichever way works best for a player.

Premium Account I have. Usually on first wins run a good (non permanent) camo, and the basic five Economic signals, but I have lots accumulated after five years.
 

Even when I just run a type 1, 2, or 5 camo, and no signals with a T9-10 ship, I generally do well enough over time; that my credits total is going up.

[Darmokattenagra]

When the events come around they pay well. If you used anything but a sub in sub battles you got a lot of credits and it was mostly vs bots with a few players mixed in. Play race for the filth come October. space battles if they have them etc.

[harkusa]

3 hours ago, Lylanthwol said:

I've been playing a bunch more Co-op lately for various reasons (easier to rack up ribbons for Naval Battles, you can grind daily missions/dockyard fast, I'm grumpy and hate people; you know, the basics)

From working on Rank with a Bismarck I ended up with enough exp to unlock an FDG.  Figured I'd try it, see if its as bad as advertised.  Blew through 20-some-odd million credits buying her and fitting out the upgrade modules.  Then I really figured that it would not be a good idea to jump into Randoms with a stock memebote (running secondaries) and holy moley the credits!  -15k here, -12k there, +3.2k over yonder.  Which brings me to my question.

How do you feed the credit bottleneck playing exclusively Co-op?  I'm burning through flags wholesale just to keep her from losing ground when fiddling with her.

I play for fun so I don't play much Random or Ranked and Clan Battles not at all.  I also have abandoned any attempt to play above tier 7 because idiots and the lack of any fun there.  I own a number of tier 8-10 ships that I earned when I was still grinding along in Randoms but now they are dust collectors in my harbor.  I find I now have almost no need for credits if I stay away from Randoms and upper tiers.  I fly very few flags and use only basic camo.  What credits I do earn now come from playing in Operations.  I maintain about 50 to 60 million credits at most times which is plenty.

[AdmiralThunder]

4 hours ago, Lylanthwol said:

I've been playing a bunch more Co-op lately for various reasons (easier to rack up ribbons for Naval Battles, you can grind daily missions/dockyard fast, I'm grumpy and hate people; you know, the basics)

From working on Rank with a Bismarck I ended up with enough exp to unlock an FDG.  Figured I'd try it, see if its as bad as advertised.  Blew through 20-some-odd million credits buying her and fitting out the upgrade modules.  Then I really figured that it would not be a good idea to jump into Randoms with a stock memebote (running secondaries) and holy moley the credits!  -15k here, -12k there, +3.2k over yonder.  Which brings me to my question.

How do you feed the credit bottleneck playing exclusively Co-op?  I'm burning through flags wholesale just to keep her from losing ground when fiddling with her.

Premium time + signal flags that boost $$$ and reduce service fee. The perma camo with it's -20% to service fee helps too. However, with that said, T9 is hands down the worst tier economically to play in Co-op. The service fee is brutal. T10 with the perma is very profitable because it is -50% SF but T9 is only -20% and it doesn't help near enough. Also the ammo costs kill you in a BB. The base service fee is the same across ship types but that ammo fee for BB's can be horrific.

The other HUGE thing that is an issue for many PVP mains who don't Co-op much (not meant as offensive but rather just explaining) is you can NOT sit back and play passive in Co-op. The games go fast usually (5-7 mins avg), there are only 9 ships to farm damage off, and anyone who plays Co-op regularly will be out front killing stuff quickly. So when in Co-op, and especially in a ship like FDG which is ideal for brawling and close combat, hit W 4X at game start and head to closest cap and fight. Don't stay at the back of the map to snipe, don't hide behind islands, etc... Head in and get your damage while you can.

Now that doesn't mean charge 4 BB's alone or yolo a bunch of torp DD's and Cruisers or you will go home fast but you have to be aggressive in Co-op or you will always place at the bottom and make nothing. Having Premium ships that earn very well, even in Co-op, helps too. You can play those to build credits and offset losses in tech ships.

I am a Co-op main (20K+ Co-op games / less than 200 PVP). I have every tech line in the game done to T10. I pretty much play 95%+ T8-T10. I am more than secure credit wise. There were times when I was short on them sure but Co-op is viable in that you can play 2-3 games usually for 1 PVP game so things sort of even out. PVP will always be more feasible economically because it pays so much better but play well in Co-op and you can do fine. Higher tiers (T8+) need Premium Time at the least and flags/perma camos or other camos are needed too.

My current credit reserves

[KilljoyCutter]

Strategic use of tiers 6 to 8, which are net gains especially when you do well.  

Making sure to play premium ships daily, as they almost always turn a profit.  

Using free credit-boosting signals and camos during free premium time to double-up the effect. 

Letting some tokens from events turn to credits at the end..  

 

But, the credit bottleneck in Co-op is a real thing, and it's most stark when you realize that you can do 300000+ damage and 4+ kills in a tier X BB, and if you're not running premium or mounting signals/camo, you might still BARELY make a net gain in credits for that battle.  Let that sink in a minute.  Even most of us Co-op vets only have a handful of games that epic, it's a monumental task, and WG's payout algorithm still considers it utterly unworthy of any real payout in credits. 

 

[Lylanthwol]

Thanks for all the replies! Much appreciated.  I grabbed two to respond to, but wanted to thank everyone.

 

 

4 hours ago, Lert said:

Higher tiers are more expensive to run. This is by design, to encourage the sales of premium time and premium ships. You can stack credit earning camouflages and signals, or play lower tier ships too earn credits to fund higher tier play.

That's a... disappointing explanation sadly.  Not that I'm disappointed in you, but rather in the design.  Personally I don't need encouragement to purchase something, I've got a few premium ships and have a bunch of premium time, pretty sad that it's that way.

I was just shocked by the combo of T9 & Co-op being such a credit sink without burning through flags & camo.  I would normally not bother with much Co-op, but the combination of the FDG's reputation and the ease of mission grind had me playing much more with it.

I can make it work, as it seems everyone has figured out long before I did.  I was shocked by it though.  "Doing things I don't want to do so I can do what I want to do"  That, is the very definition of the four letter word WORK.  That's not an I'm afraid to work hard at something cop-out, just the use of the word in its four-letter obscene variety.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

The other HUGE thing that is an issue for many PVP mains who don't Co-op much (not meant as offensive but rather just explaining) is you can NOT sit back and play passive in Co-op. The games go fast usually (5-7 mins avg), there are only 9 ships to farm damage off, and anyone who plays Co-op regularly will be out front killing stuff quickly. So when in Co-op, and especially in a ship like FDG which is ideal for brawling and close combat, hit W 4X at game start and head to closest cap and fight. Don't stay at the back of the map to snipe, don't hide behind islands, etc... Head in and get your damage while you can.

No offense taken, this is exactly how to play Co-op.  Point, select Zone 5 (yeah, I know), grab a beer if you're in a BB, sit back down and get ready to roll!  The nature of the quick games lends itself to objective farming quite well.  Another thing is making adjustments when you have human teammates or bot teammates from game to game.  Having bot DDs and CAs in front of you makes it easier because they have their patterns that you can use to your advantage.  Letting the bots eat torp-fire is certainly one strategy to use.  It also cleans them off the table so you can slide in and chew on the meatier targets.

With human teammates, I'm sure some psychoanalyst would say that they can tell you what people are gonna do.  But they're lying.  People are nuts :)  No telling what people are going to do, we're rather nuts aren't we?  :)  But you can leverage that as well.  You can spot 'em a mile off though.  It's worth a good chuckle when someone starts spamming "Get Back!"  I'm usually too busy to reply, "It's CO-OP here! NOT what you're used to!"  haha 

You're right on the play style for certain.  I don't play like a wallflower and enjoy sliding in between an Iowa and a Monarch to let secondaries blaze away.  

 

Thanks for the info folks!

I think PvP Mains could stand to learn a thing or two from Co-op Mains.   

[Lert]

39 minutes ago, Lylanthwol said:

That's a... disappointing explanation sadly.  Not that I'm disappointed in you, but rather in the design.  Personally I don't need encouragement to purchase something, I've got a few premium ships and have a bunch of premium time, pretty sad that it's that way.

WoWs is quite forgiving in its free-to-play monetization scheme compared to other F2P games I've seen.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Worth quoting:

 

Costs per main gun shell, per torpedo fired, and per CV aircraft lost in combat (the first two are impossible to screencap in a compact form): https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy#Ammunition 

Here is the worst case:

Yamato for a clanless player: 180,000 for basic service costs

Ammunition: 400 per main gun shell = 3600 per nine-shell salvo. Fire the guns regularly every 26 seconds (Main Battery Mod 3) for the full 20 minutes = 46 salvoes = 165,600 credits.

I'm not going to try to calculate the contribution of Adrenaline Rush or Yamamoto's special talent, because they depend too much on what actually happens in the battle and because the ammo expenditure is already a worst case anyway - nobody fires continuously in a Yamato that way in any battle. There's always some downtime. There are always times you're waiting for a target or for terrain clearance or something.

Mount a type 5 camo = 22,500 credits per battle.

Total worst case costs: 368,100 per battle. 

Yamato has three consumable slots, which in days gone by would have added an extra 67,500 credits cost per battle for the premium version. 

 

This would burn through Admiral Thunder's stated current cash reserves in 677 battles, assuming he went into Randoms (which he doesn't), fired continuously at nothing at all (which he wouldn't), and maybe landed some accidental ramming damage to cancel out the small amount of credits you get for simply showing up and sailing around for a bit before dying. In fact, Co-op gets a 25% reduction on the base service cost, so you can trim 45,000 credits off that estimate and that would burn through Thunder's credit trove in 771 battles, assuming he could get into 771 consecutive Tier 10 co-op battles that went the full 20 minutes.

 

 

[KilljoyCutter]

1 hour ago, Lert said:

WoWs is quite forgiving in its free-to-play monetization scheme compared to other F2P games I've seen.

Which is a bit like "being short for an NBA player".  

 

[CC123]

Further to the above, this is how I generally run COOP with no premium or flags, yet break even or make bank.

1. Aim for a minimum of 100k damage per battle, this ensures you break even. However, as others have stated, you need to be agressive in COOP, and also remember to build your BBs for COOP (secondary builds).

2. Be smart with your premiums. I only run ships that have high burst damage potential. That means only BBs with strong secondaries (German, French with IFHE and Georgia/Mass with IFHE) or supercruisers like Alaska that love to citadel other cruisers.

3. Strike the right balance when you do run premium. So break even with non premium T9/10 BBs, do use premium when it is available to farm cash and XP with MOTWs and save your best flags for these. Good MOTW runs can bank 500k plus credits and 40k plus Commander XP in one run.

4. T9/10 if it is a ship you like and want to keep, buy the perma cammo.

Notes. As you can obtain 40 steel per day now, I am running premium for the next 6 months in order to get the bourgogne around Jan. I am finding that making credits is super easy now. I am averaging 100k credits per Georgia run with no flags. if you keep the non premium and premium balance right and keep being agressive, especially with all the DD YOLO spam in COOP due to the current Dockyard campaign, you will come out on top.

Ships that I regularaly do well in are:

Georgia (IFHE secondary 19 pt Capt),
Alaska (rudershift, hydro)
Freddy and kurfie (19 point secondary builds)
Republic and Alsace (19 point secondary, Repub IFHE, Alsace, non IFHE)
Tirpitz (Torpitz) and Odin (Alsace with torps). I really want T9/10 premiums of these cause I aint afraid of any BB in these ships, including T10s.

Any smoke cruisers with torps (Edinburgh)

For MOTW, Narai, I use Scharnhorst and Fiji (use any U.S CL premium too), for the T6 MOTWs, PEF, Normandi, De Grassi and Leander are my go to ships. Ensure you stack max credit and xp flags on premiums with 19 point captains.

Main thing is, be agressive, use COOP builds and not Random, so Secondary BB builds. Dont waste points on concielment expert or superintendent.

Oh, and last tip, I exit out of the lobby if there is more than 1 DD waiting. If you end up with too many human DDs, the DDs hog the damage due to their speed and burst YOLO tactics. Hence the underperformance and credit loss, especially with this dockyard event which drives more Random yolo DD players into COOP.

So remember, aim for 100k damage per game. This may mean getting used to a ram toward the end to ensure you get that xp and $ up.

Cheers
CC123

[Haifischkoeder]

Since the economy re-work a month or two ago, it's actually not to bad at T9 as long as you have a premium account. Once that change was implemented, I had no problems at the very least breaking even in my FdG, whereas before the change I was usually running in the red unless I had an outstanding match.

Now T10 is the only tier where I worry about losing credits in co-op.

[kyesac]

I use premium time and I dress up all my T10s in perma camo.  I sometimes use flags, but only on the high tier ships and usually when I am running low on credits and know something I want to buy is coming up.

[Wolfswetpaws]

16 hours ago, Lylanthwol said:

I've been playing a bunch more Co-op lately for various reasons (easier to rack up ribbons for Naval Battles, you can grind daily missions/dockyard fast, I'm grumpy and hate people; you know, the basics)

From working on Rank with a Bismarck I ended up with enough exp to unlock an FDG.  Figured I'd try it, see if its as bad as advertised.  Blew through 20-some-odd million credits buying her and fitting out the upgrade modules.  Then I really figured that it would not be a good idea to jump into Randoms with a stock memebote (running secondaries) and holy moley the credits!  -15k here, -12k there, +3.2k over yonder.  Which brings me to my question.

How do you feed the credit bottleneck playing exclusively Co-op?  I'm burning through flags wholesale just to keep her from losing ground when fiddling with her.

Scenario Operations
Playing in Co-op with Tier-5 ships, which are in a "sweet spot" for earnings vs. service costs.
Playing in Randoms with a higher-tier premium ship (Graf Zeppelin was a "go to" when I needed credits for a period of time).
Pay for premium account time.  There are sales on this around Christmas.  50% off of regular price for a year's worth of premium account time.
Premium ship of a low-tier (and enjoy it for the fun of it, examples include Yubari and Tachibana-Lima).
Tier-1 battles, no service costs.

Your mileage may vary.  :-)

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

17 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

By playing naked with premium time..

The ship is without camo or are you web-camming for tips?

[Navalpride33]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

The ship is without camo or are you web-camming for tips?

Depending on who is passing judgement... They say I am in Random... We see high end clothing up there... We hardly see any nudity to ships..

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

Depending on who is passing judgement... They say I am in Random... We see high end clothing up there... We hardly see any nudity to ships..

 

[Ironshroud]

Sort-of repeating essentially what has already been expertly stated:

 

For credits, premium account which is about $10 a month so not bad in the grand scheme of things, and stick to tiers 5, 6 or 7. I think especially tier 6 for earning the most credits after expenses are accounted for.

Tier 5 is definitely good, tier 7 has good potential but if you have a bad game then not so much. Tier 8 and up is definitely diminishing returns.

If you have a high tier premium (9 and 10) they will make credits in co-op. Tech line, not so much.

And, don't forget scenarios, those are good for credits.

[DakotaViking]

Someone wiser than me said (several years ago) "The high tiers are your hobby, The mid tiers are your job."

You gotta' spend more time at your job to have enough "money" to enjoy your hobby.

[Asym_KS]

On 6/30/2020 at 2:04 AM, Lylanthwol said:

I've been playing a bunch more Co-op lately for various reasons (easier to rack up ribbons for Naval Battles, you can grind daily missions/dockyard fast, I'm grumpy and hate people; you know, the basics)

From working on Rank with a Bismarck I ended up with enough exp to unlock an FDG.  Figured I'd try it, see if its as bad as advertised.  Blew through 20-some-odd million credits buying her and fitting out the upgrade modules.  Then I really figured that it would not be a good idea to jump into Randoms with a stock memebote (running secondaries) and holy moley the credits!  -15k here, -12k there, +3.2k over yonder.  Which brings me to my question.

How do you feed the credit bottleneck playing exclusively Co-op?  I'm burning through flags wholesale just to keep her from losing ground when fiddling with her.

Everything @AdmiralThunder et al.  have said ^^^ is doctrine..... 

I am a COOP main and I stayed a lot at tier 8 early on and started most of my 19 point CPT's there.  Seemed, for my play style, with PT, the most consistent ROI in time.....paid the best for me.  Tier 9's, even today, can be almost break even without flags or if you have a brain fart and get evaporated before you kill anything.   I spend almost all of my matches Tiers 8-10.