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Superczar

Uptiered in Shokaku

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How do you manage to play at anywhere near a "ok" level when uptiered against Tier IX and X? I'm struggling hard, and I felt I did well in the Hosho and Ryujo, which were a lot of fun. But so far my experience in the Shokaku has been utter frustration and teammates seem to be even more eager to call you out on not being able to do well at this level; and I have a LONG grind to go yet to research the Hakuryu...

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4 hours ago, Superczar said:

How do you manage to play at anywhere near a "ok" level when uptiered against Tier IX and X? I'm struggling hard, and I felt I did well in the Hosho and Ryujo, which were a lot of fun. But so far my experience in the Shokaku has been utter frustration and teammates seem to be even more eager to call you out on not being able to do well at this level; and I have a LONG grind to go yet to research the Hakuryu...

Play defensively during the early stages of the battle. Spot the enemy and deploy fighters, especially for friendly destroyers trying to capture zones. Once the enemies have spread out, look for targets that have taken lots of shell damage. Shells and bombs can destroy AA mounts, which weakens the ship's AA firepower.

You can also try tricking your target by changing the direction and timing of attack. For example, approach from the left side of their ship. They will activate AA sector reinforcement on the left side while turning to keep your aircraft within that sector. You can then circle around and attack their right side which has weakened AA. Or you can wait until their sector reinforcement is on cooldown.

Welcome to the forums, and good luck with the Shokaku!

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I have some similar frustration to the newly acquired Shokaku. The AA is significantly stronger at T7 plus - especially at T10. Even a T8 DD can wipe my planes after first round of attack.
The AA firepower is totally OP in my humble opinion, but of course other players would be content with as CV is no longer a real threat to any ships. 
 
I understand increasing HP is first thing to do for JP CV, especially at T8 or above. However the damage that CV could do is incomparable to other players, such as BB's firepower, or DD's torp

The only advantage for the CV at this level is able to spot, and sink any opponents who got away with heavy damage AND alone.

Have to change the mindset on playing CV - accepting the fact that it's merely a support role to other ships, which is mainly Scouts plane (80%), secondary as hunting down lone and damaged ship (20%)

i better go back to play the T6 CV... 

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This is all in an ideal world:

In an uptiered game, your main targets will be shimakazes, German battleships, and stationary ships. 

Things to avoid when they aren't detected:

Halland, Smalland.

Things to avoid when moving:

Russian cruisers, American cruisers.

Main target early-mid game:

Shimakazes, anything very isolated that doesn't have the best AA, and stationary ships (typically cruisers like the des Moines).

Late game targets:

Kremlin, G Kurf, Thunderer, and Stalingrad lose much of their AA by the endgame so in an ideal world, those will be your main targets late game.

Tips:

Do not try to have multiple passes on any ship except the shimakazes and low AA DDs. Always dump 3 planes early cause you're not going for a second pass. 

Use mountains and ground to your advantage as much as possible. 

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On 6/30/2020 at 1:13 AM, Superczar said:

How do you manage to play at anywhere near a "ok" level when uptiered against Tier IX and X? I'm struggling hard, and I felt I did well in the Hosho and Ryujo, which were a lot of fun. But so far my experience in the Shokaku has been utter frustration and teammates seem to be even more eager to call you out on not being able to do well at this level; and I have a LONG grind to go yet to research the Hakuryu...

I posted some stuff in another topic, but it is relevant to your question, too.  So I'll quote myself.  :-)
 

Quote

I'll enclose a couple of screen shots.
I'm running Concealment Expert in Upgrade Module Slot 5

shot-20_07.25_08_26.58-0417.thumb.jpg.8b024edcd5421ec7172c0e4a604430d3.jpg

shot-20_07.25_08_24.19-0338.thumb.jpg.f8fd943c42b3b9e2ba8c1ec92371f6f1.jpg
 

For a more "CV-build" set of Captain's Skills, the Advanced Firing Training could be swapped for Concealment Expert.
I'm running AFT + Auxiliary Armaments module with the intention of improving AA performance and increasing secondary battery range for "close encounters" that happen with me more often than with other people.
Your mileage may vary.  :-)

P.S.  At Tier-8, the AA is much stronger than at Tier-6.  Plus, you'll be facing Tier-9 and Tier-10 ships with even stronger AA bubbles.
Aircraft Armor and Survivability Expert skills are a "must have" feature of a CV's Captain's Skills.
Anything that improves a plane's chances of survival and minimizes exposure to AA fire is a good idea for a CV going in to Harm's Way.
Study the wealth of "How to CV" guides and videos and implement things that help you keep your squadrons at full strength throughout the battle.
"Pre-drop of ordnance", "Zig-zagging through Flak", "Planning your flight (to avoid or minimize Flak exposure)" and etc.

 

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One of the things I've been learning to do, lately, is to make an approach from the other side of an island.

Spot the ship from a distance, or notice that a friendly ship has spotted a ship and, with some practice, learn how to approach from the other side of an island and then surprise the targeted ship.

1.  This minimizes the exposure to AA fire (the island blocks some or all of the AA until the final moments of an attack run).
2.  Ships that are camped on the other side of islands are difficult for your team-mates to dislodge.  This attack can give a camping ship a bad day and help your team earn a win.
3.  Especially gratifying when you land multiple torpedo hits or if you score a citadel hit.  :-)

Learn the timing of your "normal" attack runs.
Learn how terrain affects the behavior of your targeting reticle.
Adapt your approach and timing to suit the situation(s).
Practice to fine-tune your version of the attack principle.

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Thanks for the replies, pretty already have my build similar to yours, but am not going for secondaries. Been getting a bit better with the ship but being uptiered still sucks, but I'm about half way through the XP grind for the Hakuryu now.

 

And thanks Merc for the tips, been doing my best to go by that.

Edited by Superczar

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6 hours ago, Superczar said:

Thanks for the replies, pretty already have my build similar to yours, but am not going for secondaries. Been getting a bit better with the ship but being uptiered still sucks, but I'm about half way through the XP grind for the Hakuryu now.

 

And thanks Merc for the tips, been doing my best to go by that.

:cap_like:

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7 hours ago, Superczar said:

Thanks for the replies, pretty already have my build similar to yours, but am not going for secondaries. Been getting a bit better with the ship but being uptiered still sucks, but I'm about half way through the XP grind for the Hakuryu now.

 

And thanks Merc for the tips, been doing my best to go by that.

:cap_like:

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On 6/30/2020 at 1:13 AM, Superczar said:

How do you manage to play at anywhere near a "ok" level when uptiered against Tier IX and X? I'm struggling hard, and I felt I did well in the Hosho and Ryujo, which were a lot of fun. But so far my experience in the Shokaku has been utter frustration and teammates seem to be even more eager to call you out on not being able to do well at this level; and I have a LONG grind to go yet to research the Hakuryu...

I've never really struggled with the Shok, even when uptiered.

Here are some of my gameplay tips (almost all I have learned from forums, vids, etc, so big thanks to all those people).

- There is ALWAYS a better target.  Never settle and go for a Mino, Wooster, or even a great AA BB/DD.  Take the extra time and choose the target you can hit. 

- Time to target is IMPORTANT!  Now that you have chosen your target wisely, you need to make your flight time as short as possible without endangering your CV.  You should average 1 attack run a minute as a good rule of thumb.  Get the pen and paper out and make ticks every time you make a quality attack run.  The pen and paper is a huge indicator if you need to find ways to get to the target faster.

- Pre-drop!  Especially early in the game.  CV's excel at the mid and late game when the boats (and AA coverage) have thinned out, and lots are missing AA modules from HE.  Don't waste your aircraft in the early game.  Realize you will only get ONE! attack run until later in the game.  So if I'm dropping torps, I take 4 planes into the attack run.  2 planes to die, 2 to drop torps.  This will leave me TONS of torps planes ready on the boat for when I need them.  My rule of thumb is taking 1 group to drop the ordanance, and 1 group to die.  Only rocket planes are the exception if you are DD hunting and are not facing a Halland.

- Spotting is a waste of your time.  Look, people will disagree with this but it is.  Drop fighters to spot (learn where to drop them outside of their AA bubbles, and in a spot they won't be sailing their AA bubbles into).  This will do the spotting.  Otherwise if you are constantly getting your attack runs in every minute you are going to do a ton of spotting as well.  Forever circling a boat is a waste.  Don't rely on your random teammates to kill it.  Drop the fighters to spot while your bring back the next flight of pain.  (Obviously exception is sometimes a low health DD and your have teammates with barrels ready in the area).  5 minutes of circling is about 30-40k damage.

- Don't go out of your way to drop fighters on a friendly.  Look if a guy is yolo'ing he is going to die anyways.  You as a CV driver will know that you will still get your first strike in even with the fighters there.  It's a waste of time and spotting.  Dropping fighters over a DD often just alerts the enemy to where the DD is.  I know it does for me.  There are exceptions to this, and sometimes a fighter drop to protect a BB against what would become 3 torp drops instead of just the one can save a BB who accidentally got out of the group.  But you have to know the difference between a BB that is going to die anyways and your fighters are better served spotting for your good players.

Hope this helps!

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Thanks Glamorboy, some of your tips I have been doing better with. My last few games, although losses mainly, I still only get about 30-50k damage though, and some of these games it felt like I was the ONLY ONE trying to sink DDs, and consequently spent the better of the first 10 mins trying to find and destroy them. I had one game where all my attacks were rocket strikes (over 50) while it seemed like noone else engaged the DDS.

I've learned to stay away from quite a few ships (Massa. can kiss my butt, this ship shreds harder than some CA/CLs it seems), don't find my planes depleting quite so fast nowadays.

One thing is for sure, I no longer feel any responsibility if our team is just garbage. I feel like I am doing my part and some others aren't. Nobody has killed my karma either lately so I must be at least 'ok'.

I'm at about 220k XP on her, so not too much longer and her grind is over. 

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Almost through the grind, 20k XP to go, and I have been having much better games lately, just won 2 games with 7 kills, nearly getting my first Kraken in the last game only to have my flooding damage usurped by an Oland (less than 700 HP :\). Been having a lot of fun in the ship the last 100k or so XP, got pretty good at DD killing, too bad that spotting DDs will be too hard soon with the upcoming nerf to plane spotting.

 

I'll probably move my captain (Shokoku herself) to the Hakuryu to keep her skills going, and put the original captain back in, he already has 10 points.

 

I have Shokaku herself at 12 points currently, with Air Supremacy, Improved Engine Boost, Improved Engines, Survivability Expert, Aircraft Armor, and was thinking with 2 more points Concealment Expert, for 14 points, what should I spend the other 5 on eventually? 

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Spend the points wherever you want.

Also, there are changes in the Captain's Skills coming within one or two game update cycles.  So, whatever you spend the points on might be something you adjust later.

Planes benefit from concealment and reduction in flak damage.

What sort of preferences have you been developing as a product of your playing experience?  Could that help point you in the direction of skills you want to acquire?

Here's the topic about the upcoming skill changes.

 

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Yeah I watched Flambass, Flamu, and iChase's videos on the new changes coming up. Looks interesting. I guess we'll have to wait and see, I know I won't have the Hakuryu by then, the price is a bit steep on Tier X CVs.

My preference has mostly been DD hunting, and torping. I do not like using bombers, the RNG is so bad. Torps seem to be her strongest suit anyway.

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