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Helstrem

My final Jutland match on the way to Daring

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https://replayswows.com/replay/97429#stats

 

I am a bad DD player.  I will make no bones about that.  I know what I need to do well enough to have good, even occasionally great, DD matches, but most are mediocre or worse.  I am trying to get better, but that is where I am now in any case.

My final Jutland match on my way to Daring (I needed about 1800 EXP to research Daring before this match) was, for me  a good, but not great, match.  I feel I fulfilled my role as a DD, but I am sure I could have done better.  There were no CVs in the match, nor, in my opinion, excessive radar ships and I was top tier, so it was pretty favorable match making.  I didn't save my results screens, but I did top the EXP score on the winning team, 80k damage, 1 kill, 4 solo caps.  I would like to read critiques of this match so that I can do better.  I feel like I may have missed some opportunities by not being aggressive enough.  I often get sunk in DDs by being too aggressive and I was trying to control that.

 

Thanks in advance.

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7 minutes ago, black_hull4 said:

Uh, I see both of your results pages.

Those aren't the ones generated by the game, but rather by the replay system.  Note the lack of EXP and credit information on them.

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I am not the world's best warships player but I can try to give advice. I can't pause the replay though, so all I can type is what I can remember:

  • Ship setup: you have a 19 point commander with PT > AR+LS+Smoke Screen Expert+JOAT > SE+DE > CE. You would get a lot more value by replacing Smoke Screen Expert (exclusively for legendary minotaur smoke meme with dunkirk captain) and JOAT (not useless, but not as good as AR+LS) with another 3 point skill. I assume you have those skills because you're using the dunkirk captain, but they still aren't great picks.
  • You're focusing on torpedoes in the Jutland, but British DDs are gun oriented - the torpedoes are there if you need them, but they aren't your main weapon. It's especially weird since you have DE on your captain and I think reload mod in slot 6 (this is a good pick), but the only things you shoot are the Kitakaze in the beginning and the Soyuz which is dead to your torpedoes anyway. Your FDG is spotting the enemies in the south and they have no radar or DDs, so even while you're capping there you could smoke up and help your teammates kill them. 
  • Related to the above, you're very reluctant to shoot your guns. At the end of the game you have a 1700 hp Roon beached in front of you and you're in cover behind a rock, but you don't shoot. It doesn't affect this game since it's your standard 10 minute landslide and your teammates kill it, but why not shoot and take the free kill? Even against the Kitakaze in the beginning, you spend some time in smoke not firing your guns, when you could shoot it and collect some free damage (and maybe ensure a kill, if it hadn't suicided into your Seattle anyway)
  • You keep single firing all of your torpedoes down the white line. This works against the Soyuz who appears to be a special player (how do you not dodge white line single fire torpedoes from a spotted enemy), but it's unreliable against enemies who are aware that you exist. Especially don't white line single fire your torpedoes at a ship that's turning away, you have very little chance to hit.
  • You probably know this, but you wander into hydro range of the spotted Roon pushing your cap (very likely to have hydro on) and into surface detection of the Soyuz in B cap. Getting spotted makes enemies more likely to dodge your torpedoes, and you lose a chunk of hp plus a smoke to the Soyuz for no gain.
  • You go very aggressively into B cap at the start of the game, even though the enemy radar ships are unspotted. This ends up working out for you because none of them are there and the Kitakaze suicides into your friendly Seattle radar, but it could have gone the other way given different spawns. Radar ships like to go behind the islands covering B cap on Okinawa where you can't spot them from inside the cap, it'd be safer to go around so that you spot them first or to back into the cap so you can escape if you get radared.

 

Overall I think the main thing is gun usage. Destroyer guns are good enough that they're worth using even on torpedo boats, and the British DDs don't really have good torpedoes in the first place. The Daring isn''t really an upgrade from the Jutland except for the much faster gun reload, so it's even more of a gunboat. I would just try to move away from the mindset that a DD uses guns against other DDs and torpedoes against big ships, and treat your guns as your main weapon.

Edited by WernerHerzdog

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16 hours ago, WernerHerzdog said:

I am not the world's best warships player but I can try to give advice. I can't pause the replay though, so all I can type is what I can remember:

  • Ship setup: you have a 19 point commander with PT > AR+LS+Smoke Screen Expert+JOAT > SE+DE > CE. You would get a lot more value by replacing Smoke Screen Expert (exclusively for legendary minotaur smoke meme with dunkirk captain) and JOAT (not useless, but not as good as AR+LS) with another 3 point skill. I assume you have those skills because you're using the dunkirk captain, but they still aren't great picks.
  • You're focusing on torpedoes in the Jutland, but British DDs are gun oriented - the torpedoes are there if you need them, but they aren't your main weapon. It's especially weird since you have DE on your captain and I think reload mod in slot 6 (this is a good pick), but the only things you shoot are the Kitakaze in the beginning and the Soyuz which is dead to your torpedoes anyway. Your FDG is spotting the enemies in the south and they have no radar or DDs, so even while you're capping there you could smoke up and help your teammates kill them. 
  • Related to the above, you're very reluctant to shoot your guns. At the end of the game you have a 1700 hp Roon beached in front of you and you're in cover behind a rock, but you don't shoot. It doesn't affect this game since it's your standard 10 minute landslide and your teammates kill it, but why not shoot and take the free kill? Even against the Kitakaze in the beginning, you spend some time in smoke not firing your guns, when you could shoot it and collect some free damage (and maybe ensure a kill, if it hadn't suicided into your Seattle anyway)
  • You keep single firing all of your torpedoes down the white line. This works against the Soyuz who appears to be a special player (how do you not dodge white line single fire torpedoes from a spotted enemy), but it's unreliable against enemies who are aware that you exist. Especially don't white line single fire your torpedoes at a ship that's turning away, you have very little chance to hit.
  • You probably know this, but you wander into hydro range of the spotted Roon pushing your cap (very likely to have hydro on) and into surface detection of the Soyuz in B cap. Getting spotted makes enemies more likely to dodge your torpedoes, and you lose a chunk of hp plus a smoke to the Soyuz for no gain.
  • You go very aggressively into B cap at the start of the game, even though the enemy radar ships are unspotted. This ends up working out for you because none of them are there and the Kitakaze suicides into your friendly Seattle radar, but it could have gone the other way given different spawns. Radar ships like to go behind the islands covering B cap on Okinawa where you can't spot them from inside the cap, it'd be safer to go around so that you spot them first or to back into the cap so you can escape if you get radared.

 

Overall I think the main thing is gun usage. Destroyer guns are good enough that they're worth using even on torpedo boats, and the British DDs don't really have good torpedoes in the first place. The Daring isn''t really an upgrade from the Jutland except for the much faster gun reload, so it's even more of a gunboat. I would just try to move away from the mindset that a DD uses guns against other DDs and torpedoes against big ships, and treat your guns as your main weapon.

Thanks for the review.

1) Yes, I have been thinking of dumping Smoke Screen Expert.  I like Jack of All Trades for the shorter cooldowns, but I am open to suggestions for replacement.  I had tried RDF, but didn't get much use out of it.

2) This match was me trying to be less aggressive in favor of surviving longer.  In other matches I focused on guns and often never fired torpedoes.  I knew the Soyuz was doomed, but I had a task that I needed main battery hits in British DDs so I decided to get a few there as I didn't see a risk in doing so.  I use  Torp Tubes Mod 1 in slot 3 because I don't see much gain from the other options.  All other skills/upgrades I use are gun oriented.

3) I see your point.  I was focused on getting the cap.

4) The torps I fired at the Roon weren't intended to hit as he had hydro up.  They were to make him back up behind the island so he wouldn't have a shot on me, though I probably didn't need to fire five at him.  When firing into smoke screens I fire the full spreads, but I do tend to use single fire otherwise.  Go big or go home, and often that means go home.

5) I didn't see the Roon until he came around the island and hydroed me.  I got out of hydro ASAP and sent torpedoes at him, which I knew he'd see, to make him back off.

6) I was trying to use the island to shelter me as much as possible, but I see your point that I was gambling on it going the way it did rather than how it could have gone.

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