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Patton5150

Anyone else dropping concealment?

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Concealment Skill

I"ve dropped the skill on my BBs a while ago.  I think I'm going to drop the skill on all my DDs when the next free skill reset comes along.  There are so many other useful skills that I could take instead on my DDs.  And if I could play the smokeless French and European DDs, then surely  I could play non-concealment DDs.  On cruisers I think I will keep the skill unless a particular cruiser is starved of skill points.

Concealment module

I currently have this module on most of my ships.  But when the next upgrade sale is announced, I will probably sell the module on my ships right before the sale and then buy a replacement once sale starts.  Likely replacements would be the rudder shift 2 upgrade and that new consumable upgrade.

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Question tho, what are you dropping the skill for?

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While still useful for disengaging, battleships are easily the one type that can get away without CE the most.

Even despite the omnipresent carriers nowadays, concealment is still life for most destroyers.  It still helps reduce your air detection against air attacks in the first place.

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I've never emphasized Concealment Expert or the Concealment upgrade.

The upgrade sees more use on my ships because it also increases enemy dispersion -- when combined with camo is can negate the Aiming upgrade's effect on enemy ships.   

But the Skill is 4 points spent on reducing just your max detectable range only when you're not firing... hardly worth it, especially for PVE mains.  

I loath the vision-control meta and the way it causes some players to try to dance around desperately twiddling between their max detectable range and max gun range. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Patton5150 said:

Concealment Skill

I"ve dropped the skill on my BBs a while ago.  I think I'm going to drop the skill on all my DDs when the next free skill reset comes along.  There are so many other useful skills that I could take instead on my DDs.  And if I could play the smokeless French and European DDs, then surely  I could play non-concealment DDs.  On cruisers I think I will keep the skill unless a particular cruiser is starved of skill points.

Concealment module

I currently have this module on most of my ships.  But when the next upgrade sale is announced, I will probably sell the module on my ships right before the sale and then buy a replacement once sale starts.  Likely replacements would be the rudder shift 2 upgrade and that new consumable upgrade.

I have on several ships.  What's the point of concealment when you are getting spotted three minutes (or less) into any mode of play outside of Scenarios....  At some point, after the great de evolution of the game from a historically oriented, role based, LOS surface action group cooperative shooter into a close range only, simple arcade shooter, none of the skills will matter at all.......  All we will see are FFA's at close range; and, the profit is in "Golden" skins, ammo and consumables and new, ever changing OP gimmick ships......   That is where we are headed.  

In COOP, not a whole lot matters in that regard.  It's more about fun.

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In PVE the bots know the value of concentrated fire, you might get away with that in Random and Ranked battles though.

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10 minutes ago, Potato_Farmer_ said:

Question tho, what are you dropping the skill for?

If I dont take concealment, I could do the following

T1:  PT

T2:  AR:  LS

T3:  SE, BFT, DE

T4:  AFT

Thats a total of 18 points.  On DDs with floaty shells, AFT may not be as useful but TAE is also an option.

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1 hour ago, Patton5150 said:

Concealment Skill

I"ve dropped the skill on my BBs a while ago.  I think I'm going to drop the skill on all my DDs when the next free skill reset comes along.  There are so many other useful skills that I could take instead on my DDs.  And if I could play the smokeless French and European DDs, then surely  I could play non-concealment DDs.  On cruisers I think I will keep the skill unless a particular cruiser is starved of skill points.

Concealment module

I currently have this module on most of my ships.  But when the next upgrade sale is announced, I will probably sell the module on my ships right before the sale and then buy a replacement once sale starts.  Likely replacements would be the rudder shift 2 upgrade and that new consumable upgrade.

I don't use it on my massachusetts, pure secondaries build.... I still leave it on all dds, and I play the French dds well but I leave it on them.i make dd and CV videos, come check them. Out Meta_man2002 Good luck, give us an update how it works out 

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If you're playing PvE pretty much all the time, then CE and the module are a waste. However, if you play PvP, concealment is a must.

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It varies for me with DDs. With some the extra stealth for both getting close or disengaging is great. For others though, such as the Khaba or Kleber, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

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46 minutes ago, wildgooseman said:

It varies for me with DDs. With some the extra stealth for both getting close or disengaging is great. For others though, such as the Khaba or Kleber, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.

 

Any DD with more than 6.5 base detection (DKM DDs come to mind here) can flush it. Stealth firing is dead and has been for a long time. See a smoke cloud, torp it. If you get pinked because one of your own parks himself in a Red smoke cloud that's T_S for him....

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20 hours ago, wildgooseman said:

It varies for me with DDs. With some the extra stealth for both getting close or disengaging is great. For others though, such as the Khaba or Kleber, it's like putting lipstick on a pig.

Some DDs live or die by concealment (Shiratsuyu with TRB comes to mind). Not getting spotted is the ideal. Getting spotted means your torps get dodged and you get dead.

French gunboats, not so much. There are still times where you NEED to disengage or having that extra few seconds of spotting the enemy DD BEFORE he spots you can be critical. But it isn't always a bad idea to spend those 4 pt elsewhere.

Edited by Sabot_100
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I tend to use concealment to use the advantage of the bots spotting something else before me and shoot at that first as opposed to shooting at me first (unless of course I am doing potential damage missions).

 

However lately I've been dropping concealment on ships that don't generally need or care about being shot at in favor of more maneuverability such as with Seigfried and Stalingrad having double rudder shift instead for the lulz 6-7 sec rudder shift.

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Since this is in the PVE Subforum...

 

BBs can easily get away without concealment because they're closing range to brawl anyways.

 

Anything else that needs chances to break contact for whatever reason, or to get close to do their work without getting spotted early will still need concealment.

 

DDs most especially.

Even my FR DDs that tend to have bad concealment for a Destroyer.  My Mogador, Kleber for example are still having Stealth Builds so that I can get closer without getting spotted as I rush for a torpedo attack. 

Less time spotted = Less shots going my way

Less shots hitting my DD = Less chances of my torpedo tubes being disabled or destroyed

 

Cruisers are fine to spam and not care about concealment... Until they're getting focus fired.  Unlike a BB you don't have the armor to withstand the punishment and those long range bot BB salvos from off to the side are deadly if you don't account for them.  There are times you need to go dark because you can't tank that gunfire as a Cruiser.  If you got some awful concealment range, made worse by being on fire which increases your detection by 2km, you're never breaking contact. 

In addition, a number of Cruiser Lines out there can have atrociously bad concealment.  Unless you like to get all the opening salvos of the bot team as a Cruiser, feel free to ignore concealment.

Some Cruisers get very stealthy with the right build and it makes movement along the map without getting molested much easier.  Good stealth for a Cruiser makes controlling engagements, when the enemy can and cannot shoot at you easier.  Atago for example gets a totally awesome 9.3km surface detection with Stealth Build.

Cruisers still can make great use of concealment builds.

 

Carriers, depends, if you play aggressively.  Bad concealment means you get spotted real easy and so all the bots will focus your CV down.  The bots a lot of the time will drop whatever it is they're doing if the CV is spotted, and focus fire on it.

Some of these Carriers with Stealth Build can get real close and not be spotted.  Makes it easier to get to a nice, forward island campy spot to safely launch planes without getting shot at along the way.  Another great use is by having a stealthy CV, if you for some reason have to hard carry as the last ship, being sneaky makes the job considerably easier.

Kaga in Stealth Build drops to an amazing 9.9km surface detection.

Midway without camo only has 15.38km surface detection and will get spotted from a long ways off, and start taking needless gunfire.  With Stealth Build she drops to a much more manageable 12.46km.

Graf Zeppelin with camo only has 15.71km surface detection, but with Stealth Build it goes down to 12.73km.  With better concealment, Graf Z can close range more easily to make use of her secondaries, instead of being spotted almost 16km away and getting shot at the entire way.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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My French DD captain, in training,  will not have CE. I am using AFT and will add RPF. As a hunting gun boat that will be firing most of the time the gun bloom completely eliminates stealth. 

My IJN torp boats still need to be as stealthy as possible. 

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I have never chosen concealment.  Not as a captain's skill or a module.  My skippers don't get Supernintendo either.

In fact, a 10 point captain in my fleet is likely to have additional tier 1-3 skills and NO tier 4 skill at all.

The first tier 4 skill I usually choose is Smokey Bear or IFHE.

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13 hours ago, Captain_Slattery said:

I have never chosen concealment.  Not as a captain's skill or a module.  My skippers don't get Supernintendo either.

In fact, a 10 point captain in my fleet is likely to have additional tier 1-3 skills and NO tier 4 skill at all.

The first tier 4 skill I usually choose is Smokey Bear or IFHE.

^^^ This

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On 6/29/2020 at 4:35 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The bots a lot of the time will drop whatever it is they're doing if the CV is spotted, and focus fire on it.

Bots hate CVs too. They are becoming more human.

Edited by Sabot_100

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