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Pugilistic

Remember Khabarovsk?

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A very recent vid on this now unused ship. 

I do disagree with the title. Although powercrept, Khaba was actually directly nerfed into oblivion. This process has been described as a sop to folks who couldnt shoot or manage consumables. Then WG took their revenge by releasing Kleber and Smolensk, which split the problems presented by old Khaba between two ships without either presenting much in the way of danger to CV's. 

I would argue that Tashkent is straight up better although sitting a tier lower. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

A very recent vid on this now unused ship. 

I do disagree with the title. Although powercrept, Khaba was actually directly nerfed into oblivion. This process has been described as a sop to folks who couldnt shoot or manage consumables. Then WG took their revenge by releasing Kleber and Smolensk, which split the problems presented by old Khaba between two ships without either presenting much in the way of danger to CV's. 

I would argue that Tashkent is straight up better although sitting a tier lower. 

 

hopefully, wargaming replaces it like moskva, so it becomes a special ship. 

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3 minutes ago, lordholland4293 said:

hopefully, wargaming replaces it like moskva, so it becomes a special ship. 

Ive seen there is a T10 in test.

Edited by Pugilistic

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1 hour ago, Pugilistic said:

A very recent vid on this now unused ship. 

I do disagree with the title. Although powercrept, Khaba was actually directly nerfed into oblivion. This process has been described as a sop to folks who couldnt shoot or manage consumables. Then WG took their revenge by releasing Kleber and Smolensk, which split the problems presented by old Khaba between two ships without either presenting much in the way of danger to CV's. 

I would argue that Tashkent is straight up better although sitting a tier lower. 

 

I still hate that ship.  it defies physics..... 

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Khaba and 'Gumo both need the full AP pen damage thing removed, they are basically useless because of it when combined with CV spotting.    There is a reason nobody plays these ships anymore, and if they do, they generally die instantly.

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2 hours ago, Pugilistic said:

A very recent vid on this now unused ship. 

I do disagree with the title. Although powercrept, Khaba was actually directly nerfed into oblivion. This process has been described as a sop to folks who couldnt shoot or manage consumables. Then WG took their revenge by releasing Kleber and Smolensk, which split the problems presented by old Khaba between two ships without either presenting much in the way of danger to CV's. 

I would argue that Tashkent is straight up better although sitting a tier lower. 

 

Ah the Khabarovsk....then they nerfed it into oblivion. Not that it wasn’t justified to some degree.

My guess is WG will not let Kleber be what Khabarovsk should be much longer. Introduce the new upgraded Tashkent at T10 and give it the Moskva treatment but buff it.

My .02

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2 hours ago, Pugilistic said:

Although powercrept, Khaba was actually directly nerfed into oblivion. This process has been described as a sop to folks who couldnt shoot or manage consumables. Then WG took their revenge by releasing Kleber and Smolensk, which split the problems presented by old Khaba between two ships without either presenting much in the way of danger to CV's. 

I would argue that Tashkent is straight up better although sitting a tier lower.

Absolutely right about Khaba being nerfed into oblivion.  It seemed they couldn't work out how to balance it so they nerfed it to a level where it was pointless to play it, and thus the issue went away.  Khaba is by far the worst T10 DD.

I also completely agree about Tashkent - it's just a straight up better ship.

The new "Super Tashkent" that they recently announced may well be the replacement for Khaba, minus it's 50mm armour plate which it seems was the primary road block to Khaba balancing.

49 minutes ago, Zenn3k said:

Khaba and 'Gumo both need the full AP pen damage thing removed, they are basically useless because of it when combined with CV spotting.    There is a reason nobody plays these ships anymore, and if they do, they generally die instantly.

Having two random ships that take full AP pens is a completely bizarre design decision.  It's like if they did the open water stealth fire rework, but then decided that a couple of ships just got the old stealth fire system.  I just don't get why they made this decision - why would they not just make it the same for all DD's, and then balance the DD's around the new mechanic?  The mind boggles at the thought process that led to this outcome.

The effect is it relegates these two ships to being hugely underpowered.  Why would you ever take out a ship that is so easy to remove from the game?  It's hilarious when you do find one in game and you're in a BB or a super cruiser - just wait for them to angle, then hit them with a salvo and watch as much of their health disappears.  It's so reliable, and so absurd.

 

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The Trashcan is absolutely a better boat....no question about it.  2 less guns but better everything else.   The range and the rudder on Khaba are ridiculously bad.  Khaba may end up being the first and only T10 that I sell. 

I do have hope for the R10.  Not a big upgrade to the 'can but beats the Khaba.  https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2020/06/dd-r-10-soviet-tier-x-destroyer.html

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44 minutes ago, Moggytwo said:

Absolutely right about Khaba being nerfed into oblivion.  It seemed they couldn't work out how to balance it so they nerfed it to a level where it was pointless to play it, and thus the issue went away.  Khaba is by far the worst T10 DD.

I also completely agree about Tashkent - it's just a straight up better ship.

They continued to nerf it even when it wasn’t overperforming. BB players just hated it so damn bad. I wasn’t playing it during that time, so I had no dog in that fight; I was just perplexed that they just burned it at the stake. 
 

 

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13 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

They continued to nerf it even when it wasn’t overperforming. BB players just hated it so damn bad. I wasn’t playing it during that time, so I had no dog in that fight; I was just perplexed that they just burned it at the stake. 
 

 

Well there were a few yammies that ran away from me at that time due my gunfire. Lol I do miss that. 250-300 hits in game did start a lot of fires.

Edited by Chain_shot
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I still can't hit the damn things. Almost makes me want one.

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9 hours ago, Moggytwo said:

The new "Super Tashkent" that they recently announced may well be the replacement for Khaba, minus it's 50mm armour plate which it seems was the primary road block to Khaba balancing.

Actually, they stated R-10 would be a T10 Tashkent with more range, better torps, and armor. ST data mining shows her with Soviet BL-109A 130mm guns (same guns as the secondaries of T9 and 10 Soviet heavy cruisers and Kremlin/Slava) with a 25mm Deck and 50mm midship. I guess she won’t take full BB AP pens, as nothing has been mentioned of it, but light cruiser and DD AP will do some pretty nice chunks out of her health if she really does have that 50mm side plating

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18 hours ago, tfcas119 said:

Actually, they stated R-10 would be a T10 Tashkent with more range, better torps, and armor. ST data mining shows her with Soviet BL-109A 130mm guns (same guns as the secondaries of T9 and 10 Soviet heavy cruisers and Kremlin/Slava) with a 25mm Deck and 50mm midship. I guess she won’t take full BB AP pens, as nothing has been mentioned of it, but light cruiser and DD AP will do some pretty nice chunks out of her health if she really does have that 50mm side plating

So its a remake of Khaba with 1 less turret. Weirdness reigns. 

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The khab needs its Buffs back ,,, The boat is not fun to play any more ...And z52 needs Buffs it worse 10 DD ..4x2 10.5 k tops in a 12k radar world is a bad joke ...

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On 6/27/2020 at 10:31 PM, YouSatInGum said:

The Trashcan is absolutely a better boat....no question about it.  2 less guns but better everything else.   The range and the rudder on Khaba are ridiculously bad.  Khaba may end up being the first and only T10 that I sell. 

I do have hope for the R10.  Not a big upgrade to the 'can but beats the Khaba.  https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2020/06/dd-r-10-soviet-tier-x-destroyer.html

I agree ,, And it very SAD ...

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5 hours ago, Pugilistic said:

So its a remake of Khaba with 1 less turret. Weirdness reigns. 

Well since that post I read the Daily Bounce’s ST post about her, and she does not get AP f@*ked like Khaba. R-10 trades one gun for range, usable torps, stealth, a slight improvement in AP pen (BL-109A shares the same HE and AP performance as Groz and Smolensk’s guns and they Have about 10mm more pen at most ranges) and only takes over pen damage from BB AP. I have to think R-10 is going to be a Khaba replacement, with Khaba being removed or becoming a special ship ala Moskva 

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On 6/27/2020 at 10:16 PM, Zenn3k said:

Khaba and 'Gumo both need the full AP pen damage thing removed, they are basically useless because of it when combined with CV spotting.    There is a reason nobody plays these ships anymore, and if they do, they generally die instantly.

Khaba just needs to have it's nerfs reversed and restore it to its original form to be competitive again. Gumo has good AA, long-range hard-hitting torps, and smoke to boot and seems fine to me as it is.

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im sorry 'nerfed into oblivion' ? 

Did it guns lose any functional range, ROF or fire chance?

Did it lose HP, repair ability or 50mm plate?

Did it lose its ability to decelerate and accelerate in physics-defying manner?

Did it lose its laser ballistics?

No. 

This thing can still dominate battleships with its GUNS alone. It easily avoids CRUISER and BB fire just by virtue of its speed and physics defying engine power and deceleration rates. 

 

What happened was that CV rockets are one thing it cannot avoid with its bias perks. 

What happened is that other DDs were introduced which were just as fast as it and had fast firing guns.. French and British DDs can give khaba a hard time but it is not an unfair fight. With one of those engaging it, it can't run into stealth and it ends up being chased by the CV or falling to the accumulated random hits from cruisers/BBs plus the chasing DD's soaking damage upon it.

 

This DD still is able to dominate and push back an entire flank on its own by the virtue of it being incredibly hard to hit at medium to long ranges..and it hits back with nonstop fire-setting shells. If there is no cv nor one of the new DDs its nearly impossible to deal with it. 

 

 

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On 6/27/2020 at 10:16 PM, Zenn3k said:

Khaba and 'Gumo both need the full AP pen damage thing removed, they are basically useless because of it when combined with CV spotting.    There is a reason nobody plays these ships anymore, and if they do, they generally die instantly.

Harugumo yes. Khaba no. 

That 50mm plate is the reason AP BB shells should arm against it. Harugumo has paper thin armor and no better than Shimakaze so there is no reason it should be suffering this other than pure IJN hate code. 

 

Reason they arent played any more is because they lost their absolute dominance. Most khaba diehards are in smolensk or nevskys now. CV rockets has also dampened their dominance. 

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56 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

Khaba just needs to have it's nerfs reversed and restore it to its original form to be competitive again. Gumo has good AA, long-range hard-hitting torps, and smoke to boot and seems fine to me as it is.

Except the fact its 100% unplayed because of the AP situation...

Edited by Zenn3k

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18 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Harugumo yes. Khaba no. 

That 50mm plate is the reason AP BB shells should arm against it. Harugumo has paper thin armor and no better than Shimakaze so there is no reason it should be suffering this other than pure IJN hate code. 

 

Reason they arent played any more is because they lost their absolute dominance. Most khaba diehards are in smolensk or nevskys now. CV rockets has also dampened their dominance. 

They lost their dominance because they get click deleted every game, everyone KNOWS they take full AP and every Montana in the game takes a pot-shot because of the chance to kill easily.    I think those diehards just went to better DDs, like Friesland or Halland.     CV rockets really aren't the issue with 'Gumo, it has pretty good AA, the issue is its spotted and deleted by AP shells.

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2 hours ago, Zenn3k said:

Except the fact its 100% unplayed because of the AP situation...

If it were unnerfed the AP situation would not have as big an impact. Part of the nerf was rudder shift speed.

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3 minutes ago, Vaffu said:

If it were unnerfed the AP situation would not have as big an impact. Part of the nerf was rudder shift speed.

Rudder shift matters a LOT less when you aren't taking full AP pen damage.

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2 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

im sorry 'nerfed into oblivion' ? 

Did it guns lose any functional range, ROF or fire chance?

Did it lose HP, repair ability or 50mm plate?

Did it lose its ability to decelerate and accelerate in physics-defying manner?

Did it lose its laser ballistics?

No. 

This thing can still dominate battleships with its GUNS alone. It easily avoids CRUISER and BB fire just by virtue of its speed and physics defying engine power and deceleration rates. 

 

What happened was that CV rockets are one thing it cannot avoid with its bias perks. 

What happened is that other DDs were introduced which were just as fast as it and had fast firing guns.. French and British DDs can give khaba a hard time but it is not an unfair fight. With one of those engaging it, it can't run into stealth and it ends up being chased by the CV or falling to the accumulated random hits from cruisers/BBs plus the chasing DD's soaking damage upon it.

 

This DD still is able to dominate and push back an entire flank on its own by the virtue of it being incredibly hard to hit at medium to long ranges..and it hits back with nonstop fire-setting shells. If there is no cv nor one of the new DDs its nearly impossible to deal with it. 

 

 

Yes, it lost gun range, quite a bit actually.

It also lost rudder shift speed by a large margin as well.

It lost torpedo range also.

The only BB a Khaba can dominate is a super potato and no it does not dodge shells easily at all with its brick-like handling even BB can hit it easily.

 

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