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RonJamesDio

Curious about Nurnburg

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So I recently bought back the Nurnburg after a few years and I was curious what sort of captain skills go well with it. I primarily use her as a medium-long range AP sniper against targets of opportuntiy, since her guns are insanely accurate and her AP does rude things at pretty well all ranges. 

Would an AA spec make any sense? There seem to be a lot of CV's lately and her AA appears to be okay, but I'm hesitant sinking points into it. Concealment expert seems like the most logical choice, but CV's make concealment a moot point in most games. 

 

Any suggestions? 

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8 minutes ago, RonJamesDio said:

So I recently bought back the Nurnburg after a few years and I was curious what sort of captain skills go well with it. I primarily use her as a medium-long range AP sniper against targets of opportuntiy, since her guns are insanely accurate and her AP does rude things at pretty well all ranges. 

Would an AA spec make any sense? There seem to be a lot of CV's lately and her AA appears to be okay, but I'm hesitant sinking points into it. Concealment expert seems like the most logical choice, but CV's make concealment a moot point in most games. 

Any suggestions? 

I wouldn't spec for AA since Nurnberg isn't known for that. (And if you stay in the back as it seems you plan to, CVs will probably be less likely to target you.) My first 10 skills are probably PM, AR, DE (or BFT if you really don't want to use HE), and CE. Maybe then I would take AFT. I guess you could try an AA build since Nurnberg doesn't starve for points, I would just take CE first.

Good luck with your choice!

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16 minutes ago, RonJamesDio said:

So I recently bought back the Nurnburg after a few years and I was curious what sort of captain skills go well with it. I primarily use her as a medium-long range AP sniper against targets of opportuntiy, since her guns are insanely accurate and her AP does rude things at pretty well all ranges. 

Would an AA spec make any sense? There seem to be a lot of CV's lately and her AA appears to be okay, but I'm hesitant sinking points into it. Concealment expert seems like the most logical choice, but CV's make concealment a moot point in most games. 

 

Any suggestions? 

No, it would be a waste of points even with a 19 point captain.  It would help very little against same tier carriers and not at all against Tier 8 carriers.

With a 10 point captain I'd go PT, AR, DE, and CE. That's pretty much a standard 10 point cruiser build (with exceptions).

19 points I'd go with PT, AR, DE, CE, PM, EL, EM, JoAT, and SI.

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Nurnberg is a good ship.  I alternate between Nurnberg and Konigsberg because I really like their turret placement, and without the AA hull Nurnberg is almost like a big brother.  

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1 hour ago, michael_zahnle said:

Nurnberg is a good ship.  I alternate between Nurnberg and Konigsberg because I really like their turret placement, and without the AA hull Nurnberg is almost like a big brother.  

Kinda prefer Konigsburg myself.

Can’t say that I’ve even seen KM AP being any better than anyone else’s.

Is your avvy James Cagney from the Halsey film? (The Gallant Hours.)

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7 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Kinda prefer Konigsburg myself.

Can’t say that I’ve even seen KM AP being any better than anyone else’s.

Is your avvy James Cagney from the Halsey film? (The Gallant Hours.)

Yes, I greatly enjoyed his performance in that movie.

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3 hours ago, RonJamesDio said:

So I recently bought back the Nurnburg after a few years and I was curious what sort of captain skills go well with it. I primarily use her as a medium-long range AP sniper against targets of opportuntiy, since her guns are insanely accurate and her AP does rude things at pretty well all ranges. 

Would an AA spec make any sense? There seem to be a lot of CV's lately and her AA appears to be okay, but I'm hesitant sinking points into it. Concealment expert seems like the most logical choice, but CV's make concealment a moot point in most games. 

 

Any suggestions? 

Nurnberg's AA is only "okay", meaning that a heavy investment might help you against tier VI carriers, but your AA won't give a tier VIII CV much pause. However, as a German CL with 1/4 HE pen (38mm), Nurnberg is a ship that does not require a heavy investment in captain skills to perform well, so an AA spec would certainly not be detrimental to your performance.

The only skills a Nurnberg captain really needs are PT, AR, DE, and CE. After that I would recommend LS and EM, as these are both nice to have and synergize well with her kiting playstyle, but they're not necessary. That gives you 5 points left to play with, and there are not any real "must-have" choices left. IFHE? Don't need it. Vigilance? You should be playing at long range, so its of very limited use. SI? without a heal or radar, its an okay pick, but by no means essential.  The same reasoning applies to JoAT. The remaining 5 points can easily be slotted into BFT (usually the stronger AA skill, given the higher value to continuous DPS), PM (anything to protect your engine and rudder is a good thing), and DCfF for an additional fighter/plane kill. Alternatively, you can drop EM (or LS, but I lose my engine and rudder frequently) and grab both BFT and AFT.

Whether or not you decide to spec for AA, I would not run the C hull. The AA gains are largely offset by the loss of the fighter consumable, and you also lose 50% of your torpedo armament. Nurnberg's torpedoes are mainly weapons of last resort since she doesn't have the armor to close the range with opponents, but when you are in those situations where an enemy is within torpedo range they NEED to die quickly, and the extra rack per side is very helpful.

Also, Nurnberg is actually one of the best HE spammers at mid-tier, due to her long range (16.5km), the aforementioned 38mm pen, and her short reload. Her HE alpha might be lower than other CLs at tier VI, but you see significantly fewer shatters compared to her peers, and she fires 9 shells every 6 seconds. You also don't need to invest in IFHE to farm BBs, so she's a pretty good fire starter. I find her AP is only really useful at medium-to-close range or against saturated superstructures - it lacks the penetration to be consistent at range, and like most German cruiser AP it struggles to penetrate angled hulls.

 

Edited by Nevermore135

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That's the T6, right? If memory serves, Nurnburg had the best AA at T6 post-rework short of being a CV. I did extensive research on the matter, what with Cleveland not being an option. Her, Spee and Prinz Eitel Friedrich stood a head above the rest.

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That said, an AA build is a 3 point investment these days. Just grab BFT and the AA modules if you wanna ruin the day of carriers. Combining those make things quite nasty if you also have def AA. (I forget if she has the option) Will it stop strikes? No. Will it bloody the nose of CVs that try to strike twice? Ooooohh boy will it ever.

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2 hours ago, RonJamesDio said:

So I recently bought back the Nurnburg after a few years and I was curious what sort of captain skills go well with it. I primarily use her as a medium-long range AP sniper against targets of opportuntiy, since her guns are insanely accurate and her AP does rude things at pretty well all ranges. 

Would an AA spec make any sense? There seem to be a lot of CV's lately and her AA appears to be okay, but I'm hesitant sinking points into it. Concealment expert seems like the most logical choice, but CV's make concealment a moot point in most games. 

 

Any suggestions? 

At least based on PTS, Nurnburg is about to be stripped of its C-hull option, so don't build around that. 

(See also, multiple USN DDs.) 

 

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3 hours ago, RonJamesDio said:

So I recently bought back the Nurnburg after a few years and I was curious what sort of captain skills go well with it. I primarily use her as a medium-long range AP sniper against targets of opportuntiy, since her guns are insanely accurate and her AP does rude things at pretty well all ranges. 

Would an AA spec make any sense? There seem to be a lot of CV's lately and her AA appears to be okay, but I'm hesitant sinking points into it. Concealment expert seems like the most logical choice, but CV's make concealment a moot point in most games. 

 

Any suggestions? 

First, Nurnberg's C-hull (the one that gives you some AA at the cost of half your torpedoes) might be removed next patch, making her AA basically nonexistent, even by today's nonexistent AA standards.

Second, good AA basically means you'll make life pain for lower tier CVs, but higher tier ones (and T10 CVs) don't give a s*it

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1 hour ago, michael_zahnle said:

Yes, I greatly enjoyed his performance in that movie.

Kind of a command perspective film. I liked how it focused on lesser know parts of the Guadalcanal campaign.

At the same time that focus does make it a bit dry.

In any case; my copy is on VHS, that’s how long I’ve had it. (20+ years now?) I probably need a DVD/BR copy before my player dies! :fish_glass:

Hmm... Been a while; maybe I should go home from work at watch it tonight.

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I don't know, I might just suck, but using Kberg or Nberg AP at medium to long range barely ever does any damage at all.

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 A big thing to remember about Kberg and Nberg is that they have 38mm of HE pen on their 150mm mains -- if you avoid main belts you can pretty much pen anything you face from any angle.

 

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1 hour ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

I don't know, I might just suck, but using Kberg or Nberg AP at medium to long range barely ever does any damage at all.

Playing bots (who will give you broadside) AP is good medium to short.

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4 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

Nurnberg's AA is only "okay", meaning that a heavy investment might help you against tier VI carriers, but your AA won't give a tier VIII CV much pause. However, as a German CL with 1/4 HE pen (38mm), Nurnberg is a ship that does not require a heavy investment in captain skills to perform well, so an AA spec would certainly not be detrimental to your performance.

The only skills a Nurnberg captain really needs are PT, AR, DE, and CE. After that I would recommend LS and EM, as these are both nice to have and synergize well with her kiting playstyle, but they're not necessary. That gives you 5 points left to play with, and there are not any real "must-have" choices left. IFHE? Don't need it. Vigilance? You should be playing at long range, so its of very limited use. SI? without a heal or radar, its an okay pick, but by no means essential.  The same reasoning applies to JoAT. The remaining 5 points can easily be slotted into BFT (usually the stronger AA skill, given the higher value to continuous DPS), PM (anything to protect your engine and rudder is a good thing), and DCfF for an additional fighter/plane kill. Alternatively, you can drop EM (or LS, but I lose my engine and rudder frequently) and grab both BFT and AFT.

Whether or not you decide to spec for AA, I would not run the C hull. The AA gains are largely offset by the loss of the fighter consumable, and you also lose 50% of your torpedo armament. Nurnberg's torpedoes are mainly weapons of last resort since she doesn't have the armor to close the range with opponents, but when you are in those situations where an enemy is within torpedo range they NEED to die quickly, and the extra rack per side is very helpful.

Also, Nurnberg is actually one of the best HE spammers at mid-tier, due to her long range (16.5km), the aforementioned 38mm pen, and her short reload. Her HE alpha might be lower than other CLs at tier VI, but you see significantly fewer shatters compared to her peers, and she fires 9 shells every 6 seconds. You also don't need to invest in IFHE to farm BBs, so she's a pretty good fire starter. I find her AP is only really useful at medium-to-close range or against saturated superstructures - it lacks the penetration to be consistent at range, and like most German cruiser AP it struggles to penetrate angled hulls.

 

I play Nurnarov a lot and generally agree with you, but I actually only run the C hull with DFAA.  At mid tiers, it's rare to need hydro....especially the way I play it.  Dallas is only other boat I think compares as a fire starter.  As said above, the first 12 points should be PT,AR,EM, DE, and CE.  After that is personal preference, but since it starts with low hp I like SE.  It's only 2100 hp but sometimes that last little bit comes in handy.  You could take BFT for the 10% AA boost but the C hull is going away next patch and the B hull AA stinks.  If you really like the nurnberg then buy the Makarov.  Pretty much same as Nurnberg but more effective AA.

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3 hours ago, USS_Taylor_Swift said:

I don't know, I might just suck, but using Kberg or Nberg AP at medium to long range barely ever does any damage at all.

It's not you.  Nurnarov AP has some the highest air drag and hence worst penetration at the tier.  It's only somewhat reliable below 10km.  Past that I find the HE more reliable.  I try to keep my ranges between 12 and the 16km max.  You tend to love longer that way.

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5 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

 A big thing to remember about Kberg and Nberg is that they have 38mm of HE pen on their 150mm mains -- if you avoid main belts you can pretty much pen anything you face from any angle.

 

Good to note, I'll keep that in mind. I didn't realise they were taking away her C hull, I'll avoid that stuff then since it sounds like a waste of time. I havent played her in years so I figured I'd come back and see if she is as good as I remembered.

I have found her AP to be pretty consistant, but I'll try her with some HE and see how it goes. I just had an 80,000 damage 4 kill game bottom tier in Nurnburg firing almost exclusively AP rounds, so I'd imagine it could have been higher with more dynamic ammo selection. 

Thanks for the tips everyone! She's definitely one of my favourite cruisers, I like longer range playstyles myself. 

 

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11 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

Playing bots (who will give you broadside) AP is good medium to short.

LOL. The instant I push the 2 button, they angle their damn noses in and make it fruitless. OTOH if you CAN catch other cruisers broadside at close range, Nurnberg is nasty.

The C hull is being removed and the DFAA option transferred to the B hull. Most likely the ship will be credited with the appropriate amount of XP, so anyone who ground out the C hull already but doesn't have the Yorck will be boosted just that little bit closer.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

LOL. The instant I push the 2 button, they angle their damn noses in and make it fruitless. OTOH if you CAN catch other cruisers broadside at close range, Nurnberg is nasty.

The C hull is being removed and the DFAA option transferred to the B hull. Most likely the ship will be credited with the appropriate amount of XP, so anyone who ground out the C hull already but doesn't have the Yorck will be boosted just that little bit closer.

Even when it's a lowly T6 ship that nobody complains about they still find a way take away the stuff I like....

In a lot of games I tend to grab CV attention, either because I'm firing all the time or they use MMM and see I'm purple in that boat.

Edited by YouSatInGum

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The C hull is being removed and the DFAA option transferred to the B hull. Most likely the ship will be credited with the appropriate amount of XP, so anyone who ground out the C hull already but doesn't have the Yorck will be boosted just that little bit closer.

All of Nurnberg’s hulls have access to DFAA. The C hull (soon to be removed) offers enhanced AA relative to the B hull, but it does so be removing 2 torpedo launchers as well as the aircraft catapult to make room for the additional guns. The result is that without access to the catapult fighter, her defense against CVs is arguably worse, with the possible exception of if you run a full AA build with BFT and AFT.

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On 6/27/2020 at 5:49 PM, michael_zahnle said:

Yes, I greatly enjoyed his performance in that movie.

Finally got around to watching ‘The Gallant Hours’ again today. (Sick at home with a regular cold; yay.)

Looks like the major battles directly mentioned or implied were just Santa Cruz, and the 1st and 2nd Naval Battles of Guadalcanal. Though the timing of things, as well as a few other minor details seem off.

In any case; a commercial mentioned the year, so I was able to figure out how old the VHS tape is; 1988, so 32 years...

...dem ‘God, I’m old...’ feels...

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
typo

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