Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
TaxDollarsAtWork

Opinion on French Battleships in the current meta

19 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

211
[NSEW]
Members
528 posts
4,265 battles

I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on on these ships and BBs in general I've never played the class

 

Looking for common mistakes to avoid mindset etc game play or line wise

Hopping to become familiar with them broadly for when Italian battleships drop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,682
[O7]
Members
1,514 posts
11,702 battles

repub is a monster, the best long range bb currently until slava. Very good long range velocity and pen values better penetration then the yammy at range with really comfortable arcs and the h.e has very good fire chance and damage.

i love my repub im averaging 145k in it.

although it suffers at the hands of h.e spam it is nasty in close range as its citadel can be difficult to hit, capable of pulling off some devastating drive bys and very strong in close quarter brawls with a fast rate of fire and decent turret rotation speed.

for the current meta of everyone running away i think repub/borgape are currently the strongest bb in the game, having the long range capability of slinging 24km salvos and having the speed to be flexible anywhere on the map can save your games.

i didnt cover the borgape because it is not a fairly common ship outside of those of us who play alot of clan battles and not sure how much that applies here.

generally since repub is quite squishy covered in 32mm small h.e spam does pen all over, you want to avoid rushing into close range, sit around 15km+ and just laser the enemys hp away until you feel there is an opening for you to press in and use your hp to dominate every ship. Just dont be 1 of those guys at the back all game spamming h.e.

Edited by ITZ_ACE_BABY

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,682
[O7]
Members
1,514 posts
11,702 battles
Just now, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

Interesting stuff but what is a borgape?

Google led me back to you

borgougne, its a 30k steel ship.

its essentially what the old alsace was before wargaming dropped the nerf hammer on it, we call it borgape as it gapes enemy ships. borgape is even better then repub more of a cruiser then a bb, very fast and a monster when it gets flanks as it has 380mm guns compared to repub 430mm so it cannot overmatch cruisers but it does get main battery reload booster so when you get the flank of your enemy you are dropping 2 12 gun 380mm salvos very quickly removing huge chunks of hp each salvo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
4,133 posts
14,795 battles

T7+ their speed is really nice for BBs. Allow you to flex across the map as needed. Can engage and disengage as long as your paying attention and dont overextend. Like ace_baby says though HE spam tends to eat through them.

I still play my Alsace every now and then, still full secondary spec. She's still got it.

Untitled.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,822
[1984]
Members
4,482 posts
21,506 battles
5 hours ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

repub is a monster, the best long range bb currently until slava. Very good long range velocity and pen values better penetration then the yammy at range with really comfortable arcs and the h.e has very good fire chance and damage.

i love my repub im averaging 145k in it.

although it suffers at the hands of h.e spam it is nasty in close range as its citadel can be difficult to hit, capable of pulling off some devastating drive bys and very strong in close quarter brawls with a fast rate of fire and decent turret rotation speed.

for the current meta of everyone running away i think repub/borgape are currently the strongest bb in the game, having the long range capability of slinging 24km salvos and having the speed to be flexible anywhere on the map can save your games.

i didnt cover the borgape because it is not a fairly common ship outside of those of us who play alot of clan battles and not sure how much that applies here.

generally since repub is quite squishy covered in 32mm small h.e spam does pen all over, you want to avoid rushing into close range, sit around 15km+ and just laser the enemys hp away until you feel there is an opening for you to press in and use your hp to dominate every ship. Just dont be 1 of those guys at the back all game spamming h.e.

I think i’ve seen 1 bourgogne in the last two clan seasons (i dont have extensive experience). But could you p’ease provide a rundown? The current bbs (assuming one even runs one since cvs) seem to be krem or maybe a 420 gk. Now that super yammy is out maybe folks will bring her, but why would one bring a beaune 1er cru to cv since as you say French ships are long range and weak to he spam, and cant overmatch (not talking rep here).

thanks

@Admiral_Thrawn_1 would sure be interested as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,774
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
30,867 posts
25,982 battles

The FR BB Line is pretty solid but do have concerns.

+ Speed is a benefit of this Line and eventually they start having Engine Boost access.  Starting Tier VI, this line is pretty fast and will leave the slow as s*** USN BBs behind to get overtaken by an enemy push.

+ French 380mm+ AP for their size has extremely strong Penetration qualities, competing with larger 406mm / 410mm guns in Pen.

- German BBs moved up to USN / RN BB Dispersion pattern, FR BBs used to share worst dispersion pattern with German BBs.  Now the FR are left with the trashiest BB dispersion patterns in the game.

- FR BBs tend to be coated with mediocre exterior deck armor.  In Tier VIII-X, FR & RN BBs have 32mm deck armor.  That means these BBs can get farmed very easily by HE spamming ships.

 

A normal 152mm / 180mm gun from High Tier with IFHE get 37mm Penetration for their HE shells.  FR & RN BBs there with their 32mm deck armor, 32mm extremities, 19mm superstructure get farmed by HE Spam.  It's also convenient that 460mm+ armed BBs' AP shells Overmatch 32mm, so Yamato-class and Shikashima won't have to check for bounces :Smile_teethhappy:

I still remember my Div Mate who loved Yamato having all kinds of fun farming the sh*t out of FR BBs because his 460mm AP Overmatched them practically EVERYWHERE.

 

Meanwhile High Tier USN BBs all have 38mm deck armor, which is just outside what Non-German CLs can HE Pen, so these USN BBs actually can mitigate a good amount of lighter HE shells out there.

Tier VII+ German BBs got 50mm deck armor.

Tier IX-X RU BBs have 60mm deck armor.

Tier IX-X IJN BBs have about 57mm-58mm deck armor.

FR & RN BB Deck armor are 32mm, so they just get HE Farmed.

 

FR BBs offer great mobility and kick with their shells (If they can hit).  But their main battery accuracy can be trollish and their armor can be exploited by HE spam very effectively.

 

Highlights of the FR Tech Tree BBs:

VI Normandie - Ridiculously fast and has 12 guns

VII Lyon - Trash accuracy with weak guns, but you have SIXTEEN guns.  You throw 16 shells to solve your problems.

IX Alsace - Offset's VIII Richelieu's problems of mediocre amount of 8 guns, Alsace is stacked with 12 of those nice 380mm guns.

X Republique - Very flexible BB that can be done for either Secondary or Main Battery focused builds.  Can have long range Secondaries or be specced up to fire those guns very quickly.  These are 430mm guns, they have much better Overmatch benefits than smaller guns.

 

380/381mm AP can Overmatch 25mm armor but not 27mm armor.

406mm thru 420mm AP shells can Overmatch 27mm armor but not 30mm armor.

430mm+ AP can Overmatch 30mm armor.

 

This is very important because 30mm armor is often used for certain High Tier Cruisers to foil most 420mm and smaller AP.  There's numerous ones with 30mm deck armor, a rarer few with 30mm upper belt armor.  Cruiser players will bait shots to their hull and before the shells arrive, they turn in so the shells land on their belt armor at a sharp angle, and bounce.  With 30mm armor, GK 420mm, RN BB 419mm AP, and all those 406mm/410mm AP shells get bounced.

But 430mm+ AP?  Flip them off and laugh while you Overmatch and get Pens.

 

Republique's 430mm guns have the exact same Overmatch benefits of the larger 457mm guns as found on Kremlin, Ohio, Georgia.  But Republique can pump shells very quickly.  Republique has 430mm x8 main battery, and with MBM3 in Slot 6, has a 21.12 seconds reload.  Help this out even more with ASM1 in Slot 3 to improve accuracy as well as Adrenaline Rush trait to speed up your reloads as your HP goes down.  She's not the most accurate Tier X BB, but she can shoot again very quickly.  The AP is powerful and if you need HE, she has very good Fire Chances.  She's dangerous.

 

As a Cruiser Main, I didn't like dealing with Republique because she sh** on almost all of the best normal Cruiser protection schemes out there.  She's not as accurate compared to say, Yamato.  Her shells can scatter and with 8 guns max, RNG can screw her over.  But the problem with Republique is that reload... She can try 9-10 seconds faster than what's typical for BBs there.  At 21.12 seconds base reload with MBM3, that's scary, and if the Republique has AR and her HP has gone down enough, that reload gets scarier.

With Adrenaline Rush and AR, a Republique at 50% HP left reloads at 19 seconds.  At 25% HP, the reload drops to 17.9 seconds.  She gets meaner, and meaner the lower her HP gets.

With that reload, there's next to no respite for a Cruiser player fighting a Republique.  With a more normal BB reload, the BB can fire, miss, and I can return fire several times over with a Cruiser, and then be easily prepared for the next BB salvo.  Republique fires so fast for a BB that it disrupts that tempo where I fire more in reprisal.  I have to be a lot more defense oriented, compared to a regular BB opponent where I have about 30 seconds to do whatever I want.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,226 posts
5,930 battles

One notable downside of the french BBs, especially the high tiers is their guns are extremely easy to knock out or even destroy. When that's often half your firepower losing even one mount is a major problem. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
695
[UN1]
Members
1,385 posts
4,471 battles
7 hours ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on on these ships and BBs in general I've never played the class

Looking for common mistakes to avoid mindset etc game play or line wise

Hopping to become familiar with them broadly for when Italian battleships drop

Although France isn't exactly a country people think of for building great dreadnoughts, those who have played French BB's (like myself) will praise them for being fun, engaging, and effective:

  • They're predominantly built for the mid-long range sector of combat; a zone between the American BB's (mid-range) and Japanese BB's (long-range).
  • They're fast, and starting at T8, have access to Engine Boost.  This gives French BB's acceleration qualities not seen in other BB's.
  • They have strong citadel protection, but poor HE resistance.
  • They have poor overall mount survivability compared to other nations (various reasons impact this). 
  • The Alsace/Republique can be played in a full secondary build, but French secondary performance was GUTTED with the IFHE rework.  Not advised anymore.
  • They're the true "Jack of All Trades" line.  Not America.  French BB's can be kitted out for full survival, secondaries, and even AA and be good at them all, but not so good that they step on the toes of other nations.

Key notes:

  • Normandie runs circles around other T6 BB's.
  • Lyon is tremendously fun with 16 guns.
  • Richelieu is an ugly duck, but a really, really great ship.  No wonder the Jean Bart got taken off the market.
  • Alsace, though not as popular as she once was, remains one of the best T9 BB's in the game.  Her original pre-nerfed form can be found as a T10 steel ship; the Bourgogne.
  • Republique guns...wow.  Brutal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
389
[META_]
[META_]
Members
1,306 posts
7 hours ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

repub is a monster, the best long range bb currently until slava. Very good long range velocity and pen values better penetration then the yammy at range with really comfortable arcs and the h.e has very good fire chance and damage.

i love my repub im averaging 145k in it.

although it suffers at the hands of h.e spam it is nasty in close range as its citadel can be difficult to hit, capable of pulling off some devastating drive bys and very strong in close quarter brawls with a fast rate of fire and decent turret rotation speed.

for the current meta of everyone running away i think repub/borgape are currently the strongest bb in the game, having the long range capability of slinging 24km salvos and having the speed to be flexible anywhere on the map can save your games.

i didnt cover the borgape because it is not a fairly common ship outside of those of us who play alot of clan battles and not sure how much that applies here.

generally since repub is quite squishy covered in 32mm small h.e spam does pen all over, you want to avoid rushing into close range, sit around 15km+ and just laser the enemys hp away until you feel there is an opening for you to press in and use your hp to dominate every ship. Just dont be 1 of those guys at the back all game spamming h.e.

Premium and non premium French BB are played from the back?

It seems they lack armor, have great range and are quick ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
12,612 posts
14,320 battles
3 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

I think i’ve seen 1 bourgogne in the last two clan seasons (i dont have extensive experience). But could you p’ease provide a rundown? The current bbs (assuming one even runs one since cvs) seem to be krem or maybe a 420 gk. Now that super yammy is out maybe folks will bring her, but why would one bring a beaune 1er cru to cv since as you say French ships are long range and weak to he spam, and cant overmatch (not talking rep here).

thanks

@Admiral_Thrawn_1 would sure be interested as well.

Bourgogne being present in Clan battles and knowing how popular it could is complicated by the high Steel cost of 22,500 with coupon or 30,000 without it. But if CVs are going to be fairly common then the Bourgogne might see more use in future seasons. Either that or we might see some Shikishima usage thanks to it’s Yamato like qualities, plus great AA and secondary guns. But I really am thinking the Steel cost is the limiting factor as well as player preferences.

Like only 1 player that I know of in my clan has the Bourgogne, and they do like it. But many players that get to the point where they could get a Bourgogne will first get Stalingrad. I also suspect that the lower health pool of Bourgogne compared to at least most other BBs at tier X Also is a factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
277 posts
1,520 battles

Dunkerque is basically made out of tinfoil and has main guns that are only 330 mm, but those guns hit surprisingly hard and have good accuracy. Also she's fast. Many aren't very fond of Dunk but I absolutely love the thing.

And yeah, Normandie's a beast. And I've only played Lyon a couple of times but her 16 guns are capable of war crimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
12,612 posts
14,320 battles
2 hours ago, Ranari said:

Although France isn't exactly a country people think of for building great dreadnoughts, those who have played French BB's (like myself) will praise them for being fun, engaging, and effective:

  • They're predominantly built for the mid-long range sector of combat; a zone between the American BB's (mid-range) and Japanese BB's (long-range).
  • They're fast, and starting at T8, have access to Engine Boost.  This gives French BB's acceleration qualities not seen in other BB's.
  • They have strong citadel protection, but poor HE resistance.
  • They have poor overall mount survivability compared to other nations (various reasons impact this). 
  • The Alsace/Republique can be played in a full secondary build, but French secondary performance was GUTTED with the IFHE rework.  Not advised anymore.
  • They're the true "Jack of All Trades" line.  Not America.  French BB's can be kitted out for full survival, secondaries, and even AA and be good at them all, but not so good that they step on the toes of other nations.

Key notes:

  • Normandie runs circles around other T6 BB's.
  • Lyon is tremendously fun with 16 guns.
  • Richelieu is an ugly duck, but a really, really great ship.  No wonder the Jean Bart got taken off the market.
  • Alsace, though not as popular as she once was, remains one of the best T9 BB's in the game.  Her original pre-nerfed form can be found as a T10 steel ship; the Bourgogne.
  • Republique guns...wow.  Brutal.

Well France had long been one of the major naval powers in the world, so no surprise really that they had some good ships in WWI-WWII era. And despite budget problems they did have a good navy by the start of WWII, it just did not get to see much use thanks to Axis occupation of of France and then the Allies having to sink a nice port of it in French Ports so that it did not fall onto Axis usage. But a few ships were able to aid the allies.

Richelieu in game is very temperamentally gunned, I actually find Roma’s guns to behave themselves far better than Richelieu’s guns. So Jean Bart is worlds apart from Richelieu since Jean Bart is very very good and does not act badly like some of the high tier French BBs do.

 

  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
162
[C_NT]
Members
949 posts
2,438 battles
1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Well France had long been one of the major naval powers in the world, so no surprise really that they had some good ships in WWI-WWII era. And despite budget problems they did have a good navy by the start of WWII, it just did not get to see much use thanks to Axis occupation of of France and then the Allies having to sink a nice port of it in French Ports so that it did not fall onto Axis usage. But a few ships were able to aid the allies.

Richelieu in game is very temperamentally gunned, I actually find Roma’s guns to behave themselves far better than Richelieu’s guns. So Jean Bart is worlds apart from Richelieu since Jean Bart is very very good and does not act badly like some of the high tier French BBs do.

 

UK and Russia turning from an ally to an enemy made the French fleet much less important in the 20th century than it had been in the 19th. In WW1 the German fleet was almost always stuck in port then in WW2 like you said didn't turn out to be needed. Sneaking suspicion the Richelieu was the best BB in Europe during WW2 though. Not having to cross the t, and having a broadfront rather than a broadside could have made a huge difference if Richelieu ever had to fight capital ships(haven't played Roma).

Edited by Aristotle83

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
693
[O2]
Members
503 posts
10,284 battles
13 hours ago, TaxDollarsAtWork said:

I'm wondering if you guys can give me some advice on on these ships and BBs in general I've never played the class

It's probably the BB line I enjoy the most. Being a helpless secondaries skipper, I tend to equip T8-T10 w/secondary build (which is mad!), but it's so fun and sometimes it just works. I find the overall line meh until you get to Lyon at T7 (fantastic amount of rifles - especially if you can get close), Richelieu is a great ranged sniper and a small target if you joust point it at enemy and never show sides (unlike me, who just races around looking for targets for my secondaries!), and Alsace and Republique are among the best BB's in the entire game. They both can perform in a host of different roles (yep incl. secondary brawler). Don't be fooled by the limited amount of rifles on the Republique. Those are very accurate, reloads fast and deals a lot of damage.

Edited by Toxygene

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
173 posts
12,057 battles

I play a secondary-specced Normandie. 

Would I recommend it? No.

Is it fun? Heck yes. 

I fought submarines with it during the sub event, and I would park on top of the submarine and they couldn't shoot me, and whenever they came up, my secondaries would just work them over.

Secondary Normandie is not that great for randoms, although it can be very funny at times. I'm sure it would be good at co-op, but I don't play co-op enough to know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,651
[WPORT]
Members
9,818 posts
14,329 battles
14 minutes ago, Rokkator said:

I play a secondary-specced Normandie. 

Would I recommend it? No.

Is it fun? Heck yes. 

I fought submarines with it during the sub event, and I would park on top of the submarine and they couldn't shoot me, and whenever they came up, my secondaries would just work them over.

Secondary Normandie is not that great for randoms, although it can be very funny at times. I'm sure it would be good at co-op, but I don't play co-op enough to know that.

Co-op and Scenario Operations.  :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×