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Rigger43E

WG doesn't care

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So, there is now a movement to boycott the next CB season over CV's.  I can get on board with that idea but it's not just CV's.   Why are you so unresponsive to basic issues?  Yes, CV's in CB are a non starter but let me list what I see issues you seeming give no ear to.

1. Radar and Hydro spotting through solid objects(Islands).  This is a line of sight issue people and I'm sure you can fix this.  You just won't.

2. How the heck do you have a Tier X DD(Sommers) with practically no AA??  No WWII DD was so hamstrung!  It should be in the same neighborhood has it's contemporaries like the gearing.

3. CV's in WWII could not directly affect targeting of surface units.  Don't let CV's feed spotting info to their team.  They can attack what they find but no sharing.  And limitless airplanes?? Just no.

4. I realize this item will be most contentious to WG staff directly but it is what it is.  Enough with the make believe russian ships!  In WWII Russia just didn't have a navy like the other nations in the game.  You aren't inventing make believe ships for Australia/Canada so why for Russia?

Please seriously consider these items.  

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All your points speak to this game trying to be realistic however I don’t think that’s what WOWS is going for  

There’s no WWII ship that had a repair fire and floods button.

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6 minutes ago, Bortt said:

There’s no WWII ship that had a repair fire and floods button.

Uh, damage control stopped flooding and put out fires and restored operations.

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22 minutes ago, Rigger43E said:

So, there is now a movement to boycott the next CB season over CV's.  I can get on board with that idea but it's not just CV's.   Why are you so unresponsive to basic issues?  Yes, CV's in CB are a non starter but let me list what I see issues you seeming give no ear to.

1. Radar and Hydro spotting through solid objects(Islands).  This is a line of sight issue people and I'm sure you can fix this.  You just won't.

2. How the heck do you have a Tier X DD(Sommers) with practically no AA??  No WWII DD was so hamstrung!  It should be in the same neighborhood has it's contemporaries like the gearing.

3. CV's in WWII could not directly affect targeting of surface units.  Don't let CV's feed spotting info to their team.  They can attack what they find but no sharing.  And limitless airplanes?? Just no.

4. I realize this item will be most contentious to WG staff directly but it is what it is.  Enough with the make believe russian ships!  In WWII Russia just didn't have a navy like the other nations in the game.  You aren't inventing make believe ships for Australia/Canada so why for Russia?

Please seriously consider these items.  

Who says there are CVs next season?

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Ah, the OP played his realism card.  

Fine.  His DDs can only have one set of torpedoes per launcher, and, of course, radars on cruisers and other ships are permanently on.  If you want realism, you have to have all of it, not just the parts you like.  Oh, and DDs can be seen from quite a bit further by aircraft than the game portrays...

 

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19 minutes ago, Rigger43E said:

So, there is now a movement to boycott the next CB season over CV's.  I can get on board with that idea but it's not just CV's.   Why are you so unresponsive to basic issues?  Yes, CV's in CB are a non starter but let me list what I see issues you seeming give no ear to.

1. Radar and Hydro spotting through solid objects(Islands).  This is a line of sight issue people and I'm sure you can fix this.  You just won't.

This has been beat to death already. Is it undesirable? Yes. But everything is balanced around it, and it does work. It is possible to play around, unlike CVs. Also WG has said that it's actually not that easy to fix, due to game engine limitations. So while unrealistic, it isn't gamebreaking. In fact, not going through islands would really limit it's usefulness. But if you want to yell about realism, I'll make you a deal. If radar realistically can't go through islands, then it should realistically always be on and at much longer ranges. How does that sound? Oh, and pretty much all ships past T6 have it...

19 minutes ago, Rigger43E said:

2. How the heck do you have a Tier X DD(Sommers) with practically no AA??  No WWII DD was so hamstrung!  It should be in the same neighborhood has it's contemporaries like the gearing.

AA is one of the factors that is used to balance ships. Somers is pretty much OP, and no AA is part of what holds it back. Unrealistic, maybe, but it's ahead of Kremlin in that department. Fair enough, it was introduced when CVs weren't an issue, but it's a balance thing, and let's be honest, Gearing's AA is about as useful right now.

19 minutes ago, Rigger43E said:

3. CV's in WWII could not directly affect targeting of surface units.  Don't let CV's feed spotting info to their team.  They can attack what they find but no sharing.  And limitless airplanes?? Just no.

Uh, you do know that one of the reasons ships carried floatplanes was to aid in shell spotting right? And CVs often sent aircraft to aid in targeting. That's completely realistic actually. I'm with you on infinite planes, if you have to [edited] a mechanic to make a class work, there's a fundamental problem with the class.

19 minutes ago, Rigger43E said:

4. I realize this item will be most contentious to WG staff directly but it is what it is.  Enough with the make believe russian ships!  In WWII Russia just didn't have a navy like the other nations in the game.  You aren't inventing make believe ships for Australia/Canada so why for Russia?

Because AUS and CAN actually had ships, albeit usually copies of RN ships, so no need to invent ones. Why WG is so bent on having the Russians so well represented when IRL they weren't I don't know. But it's not a new thing, may I remind you we got the RU cruisers before the RN really had any ships. But despite their claims, the only conceivable reason is pandering to their RU players.

19 minutes ago, Rigger43E said:

Please seriously consider these items.  

WG doesn't listen to the CCs, why on earth would they listen to us?

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5 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

WG doesn't listen to the CCs, why on earth would they listen to us?

The playerbase is not sufficiently united on any of the issues mentioned above, as well as many other issues, for WG to change the status quo.    When the playerbase *does* speak with one voice, WG does listen, and does change some things.   That's a VERY rare event.  I can think of two or three times since I started.

People shouldn't confuse "WG doesn't listen" with "WG isn't doing what I want."

Not the same thing.  It's their game.  They run the game, and they have their own plans.  Those plans may not include some groups of players.

If you don't like what they're doing, you are always free to leave and play another game.  

 

Edited by Kirov_Six
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1. I’m pretty sure WG said in a reddit QnA that they tried that, but it created more problems than it solved, so they canned that idea (why they still went ahead with the CV rework and adding subs that created more problems than what they solved is a better question to ask)

2: the way it’s worded, it sounds like a DD shouldn’t be T10 unless it has AA, then compare it to a DD with no AA either (then again, there really is no such thing as good AA)

3: unlimited planes should go, I’m not sure why they added that either

4: believe it or not, the only truly make believe WG fantasy Russian ships are: T1 Orlan, Khaba (somewhat,) and Poltava other Russian/Soviet paper ship was either 100% built, started but not finished (Izmail, Soyuz, Stalingrad) or were documented designs that weren’t built for lack of resources, money, or so massive even Stalin himself said no.

Also, why does no one mention that most German ships in game are paper ships, and some (Roon, Aegir, Hindy, Kurfurst, Pommern, Richthofen, Hermelin (?), B-Hulls for Kaiser, Koenig, and Bayern) are pure WG fantasy ships.

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Removing any class from non or competitive battle  should never happen. Just let those who cant deal with it simply remove themselves.

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3 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

Ah, the OP played his realism card.  

Fine.  His DDs can only have one set of torpedoes per launcher, and, of course, radars on cruisers and other ships are permanently on.  If you want realism, you have to have all of it, not just the parts you like.  Oh, and DDs can be seen from quite a bit further by aircraft than the game portrays...

 

I'll do you one better... Lexington carried 90 aircraft, roughly 60 of which were attack aircraft (Dauntless and Devastator in 1942).  They didn't send 6 or 8 or 9 of them at a time, they sent them all.

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1 minute ago, michael_zahnle said:

I'll do you one better... Lexington carried 90 aircraft, roughly 60 of which were attack aircraft (Dauntless and Devastator in 1942).  They didn't send 6 or 8 or 9 of them at a time, they sent them all.

If people want realism, that would be true.  People just love to pick and choose only the realism they like, and forget the parts they don't like.

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The funny thing about paper ships is......the ships that existed and went into service had to be seaworthy.  They had to actually float and be able to remain effective in rough seas.  The paper ships that came off a napkin in an admirals penthouse had no such restrictions.  I understand that the people creating these boats in game are smarter about naval stuff than most, but there is no way they can say for certain that a Nevsky would actually be a viable ship in reality.  Its so low in the water that it seems like a slightly rough sea would sink her for example.

That is why the paper ships tend to be high on the power side IMO.  They are unburdened by little things like, actual ability to function in reality.  This is where a more definite line between historical accuracy needs to be drawn.

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When will people learn the pointlessness of using historical realism as a basis for an argument about anything in this game?

What little respect for realism and historical accuracy WoWS may have had in the beginning went flying out the window years ago.

 

Edited by Kuckoo

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12 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

That is why the paper ships tend to be high on the power side IMO.  They are unburdened by little things like, actual ability to function in reality.  This is where a more definite line between historical accuracy needs to be drawn.

Yep.  The old US BBs don't get speed boosts.  They were real, and floated, etc.  Paper ships, though, give them 30 knots!

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35 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

Ah, the OP played his realism card.  

Fine.  His DDs can only have one set of torpedoes per launcher, and, of course, radars on cruisers and other ships are permanently on.  If you want realism, you have to have all of it, not just the parts you like.  Oh, and DDs can be seen from quite a bit further by aircraft than the game portrays...

 

Fine.  And CV's have a hard limit on aircraft.  As a DD main I can be perfectly happy and effective spotting and gunboating.  Torps will be held for close in.  

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History is what they lure you in with, but after you get your feet wet you realize there is no History Here!!!!

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49 minutes ago, Rigger43E said:

So, there is now a movement to boycott the next CB season over CV's.  I can get on board with that idea but it's not just CV's.   Why are you so unresponsive to basic issues?  Yes, CV's in CB are a non starter but let me list what I see issues you seeming give no ear to.

1. Radar and Hydro spotting through solid objects(Islands).  This is a line of sight issue people and I'm sure you can fix this.  You just won't.

2. How the heck do you have a Tier X DD(Sommers) with practically no AA??  No WWII DD was so hamstrung!  It should be in the same neighborhood has it's contemporaries like the gearing.

3. CV's in WWII could not directly affect targeting of surface units.  Don't let CV's feed spotting info to their team.  They can attack what they find but no sharing.  And limitless airplanes?? Just no.

4. I realize this item will be most contentious to WG staff directly but it is what it is.  Enough with the make believe russian ships!  In WWII Russia just didn't have a navy like the other nations in the game.  You aren't inventing make believe ships for Australia/Canada so why for Russia?

Please seriously consider these items.  

#1. Wargaming Can implement it they said they wont because of problems.... Yet in  storm the only ships who can actually use radar to see you is the ship with it...... I would be fine with just that even seeing through everything if only the ship that had radar could see you (line of sight)

#2 Agreed... Somers should NOT be at T-10 as it was commissioned in 1937 and the ship in game does not even closely resemble it, she should be at T-7 max. The one in game is more a Sumner-class Hybred which had very good AA and better maneuverability than the Fletcher class at the same length

#3 With all the news and "hype" over clans starting a boycott of CV in ranked ((MAYBE)) wargaming will realize how bad the cv interaction has become and though they wont admit they were wrong, they may do some more reworking to them. There are a few tweeks that would make them actually compatible <aka-balanced>. 

#4 It's a game, they will keep adding made-up stuff let it roll off your shoulder with the chip.... Now granted its time for T-11 Through 15 to also help in power creep and make-believe or a "Real world ships" and "All- ships" separate modes but doubt those will happen.

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30 minutes ago, michael_zahnle said:

I'll do you one better... Lexington carried 90 aircraft, roughly 60 of which were attack aircraft (Dauntless and Devastator in 1942).  They didn't send 6 or 8 or 9 of them at a time, they sent them all.

And they weren't all attacking the same target simultaneously. So that argument makes no sense.

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59 minutes ago, Bortt said:

All your points speak to this game trying to be realistic however I don’t think that’s what WOWS is going for  

There’s no WWII ship that had a repair fire and floods button.

Not only could they put out fires and repair floods, they could even repair battle damage to a limited extent.

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39 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

Ah, the OP played his realism card.  

Fine.  His DDs can only have one set of torpedoes per launcher, and, of course, radars on cruisers and other ships are permanently on.  If you want realism, you have to have all of it, not just the parts you like.  Oh, and DDs can be seen from quite a bit further by aircraft than the game portrays...

 

OK. Hard cap the cv  planes.... give dd 1 torp reload every 7 minutes.... BUT if you cap the dd reload or take it away then allow them all to launch 1 torp at a time and increase flooding on all ships to 3 minutes Fires to 4 minutes and remove all ability for ALL ships to "Heal"  Wont be much fun with 3 minute floods and a couple 4 minute fires and no heal would it... Heck I suspect you take Heal from BB's and they will be so far back on the back-line Blue-line they can see people playing on Ocean.

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1 hour ago, Rigger43E said:

So, there is now a movement to boycott the next CB season over CV's.  I can get on board with that idea but it's not just CV's.   Why are you so unresponsive to basic issues?  Yes, CV's in CB are a non starter but let me list what I see issues you seeming give no ear to.

1. Radar and Hydro spotting through solid objects(Islands).  This is a line of sight issue people and I'm sure you can fix this.  You just won't.

2. How the heck do you have a Tier X DD(Sommers) with practically no AA??  No WWII DD was so hamstrung!  It should be in the same neighborhood has it's contemporaries like the gearing.

3. CV's in WWII could not directly affect targeting of surface units.  Don't let CV's feed spotting info to their team.  They can attack what they find but no sharing.  And limitless airplanes?? Just no.

4. I realize this item will be most contentious to WG staff directly but it is what it is.  Enough with the make believe russian ships!  In WWII Russia just didn't have a navy like the other nations in the game.  You aren't inventing make believe ships for Australia/Canada so why for Russia?

Please seriously consider these items.  


56 minutes ago, Bortt said:

All your points speak to this game trying to be realistic however I don’t think that’s what WOWS is going for  

There’s no WWII ship that had a repair fire and floods button.


39 minutes ago, Kirov_Six said:

Ah, the OP played his realism card.  

Fine.  His DDs can only have one set of torpedoes per launcher, and, of course, radars on cruisers and other ships are permanently on.  If you want realism, you have to have all of it, not just the parts you like.  Oh, and DDs can be seen from quite a bit further by aircraft than the game portrays...

 


32 minutes ago, tfcas119 said:

1. I’m pretty sure WG said in a reddit QnA that they tried that, but it created more problems than it solved, so they canned that idea (why they still went ahead with the CV rework and adding subs that created more problems than what they solved is a better question to ask)

2: the way it’s worded, it sounds like a DD shouldn’t be T10 unless it has AA, then compare it to a DD with no AA either (then again, there really is no such thing as good AA)

3: unlimited planes should go, I’m not sure why they added that either

4: believe it or not, the only truly make believe WG fantasy Russian ships are: T1 Orlan, Khaba (somewhat,) and Poltava other Russian/Soviet paper ship was either 100% built, started but not finished (Izmail, Soyuz, Stalingrad) or were documented designs that weren’t built for lack of resources, money, or so massive even Stalin himself said no.

Also, why does no one mention that most German ships in game are paper ships, and some (Roon, Aegir, Hindy, Kurfurst, Pommern, Richthofen, Hermelin (?), B-Hulls for Kaiser, Koenig, and Bayern) are pure WG fantasy ships.


8 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

When will people learn the pointlessness of using historical realism as a basis for an argument about anything in this game?

What little respect for realism and historical accuracy WoWS may have ever had went flying out the window years ago.

 

Actually what  War Gaming  Claims To Be Going For Is Balance  and everyone knows there's really none of that left in this game.....................................Or they should by now anywaygiphy.gif

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3 minutes ago, shadowsrmine said:




Actually what  War Gaming  Claims To Be Going For Is Balance  and everyone knows there's really none of that left in this game.....................................Or they should by now anywaygiphy.gif

Sad, frustrating but most likely true.

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Some of the Japanese DD's had one reload of torps in those rectangle boxes by the tubes.

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4 minutes ago, rustydawg said:

Some of the Japanese DD's had one reload of torps in those rectangle boxes by the tubes.

I believe most here are aware.

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