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Triela50

The new combat mission form the point of view of a coop only player

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hmmm

7 kills easy

250k damage fun 

10 achievements ummm 

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9 minutes ago, Triela50 said:

hmmm

7 kills easy

250k damage fun 

10 achievements ummm 

It is not the 1st time they have done this (ie; say a task is Co-op doable when it isn't or as in this case use achievements as the requirement when Co-op has none). Has happened a lot. If you complain enough and they respond it will be the same old same old...

"we made a mistake and will try harder in the future"

In the future they continue to make the same lazy, stupid, mistake.

Of course all they have to do is give Co-op some achievements of it's own like ALL other modes have and problem solved. But no...

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13 minutes ago, Triela50 said:

hmmm

7 kills easy

250k damage fun 

10 achievements ummm 

 

1 minute ago, AdmiralThunder said:

It is not the 1st time they have done this (ie; say a task is Co-op doable when it isn't or as in this case use achievements as the requirement when Co-op has none). Has happened a lot. If you complain enough and they respond it will be the same old same old...

"we made a mistake and will try harder in the future"

In the future they continue to make the same lazy, stupid, mistake.

Of course all they have to do is give Co-op some achievements of it's own like ALL other modes have and problem solved. But no...

Maybe it’s possible to do it in Scenario mode?

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6 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

 

Maybe it’s possible to do it in Scenario mode?

Yep and  this weeks Scenario is Defense of Newport...............................pass 

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16 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

 

Maybe it’s possible to do it in Scenario mode?

Yes it can be done in Scenarios (and Randoms and Ranked). However, that is not the point. It shows that it is Co-op doable and yet Co-op has no achievements. Also not every Co-op main plays Scenarios (I have 20K+ Co-op and 0 Scenario games as an example). Both are PVE but they are not the same. Co-op is continually left out and I get really sick of it frankly; especially because it is done through laziness and/or on purpose.

This is yet another in a long line of these tasks/missions/directives/etc... where WG says it is Co-op doable and it in fact is not. The people that set these requirements are either "challenged intellectually" shall we say or they do it on purpose; or both. It just keeps happening again and again even when we are told they will do better and not let it keep happening (but it always does eventually).

At some point you would think someone at WG would give a damn and see to it this stops but I am not holding my breath.

This time it is a few flags and camo missed so not the end of the world (although those Asian Lantern camo's are really good and hard to get) but it has been bigger in the past such as the Exeter event. Every single mission was listed as Co-op doable to earn Exeter for free but one of the final ones in part 4, like this one, was based off achievements. So many Co-op mains ground through that event to the end only to be gated because it was impossible to do in Co-op and they didn't read ahead to check each phase. This was made worse as some noticed it early, reported it to WG, WG admitted it was an error, but would NOT fix it even though they had plenty of time. Again, they do not care.

It is these types of things that happen again and again that have eroded my faith in the Company. They just do not care about those of us who play Co-op.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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9 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

It is these types of things that happen again and again that have eroded my faith in the Company. They just do not care about those of us who play Co-op.

You say that as if they care about Scenarios either. They don't care about Scenarios either, that's why they are slowly strangling it out.

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19 minutes ago, Neko_Ship_Akashi said:

You say that as if they care about Scenarios either. They don't care about Scenarios either, that's why they are slowly strangling it out.

Yes, WG cares nothing about the PVE side.

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3 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Yes, WG cares nothing about the PVE side.

Yep, and that's really tragic. Wargaming has shown a love of neglecting things.

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Which mission are we talking about?

44 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Co-op is continually left out

 

13 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Yes, WG cares nothing about the PVE side.

Oh, so that's why we have had co-op capable directives for the last couple of years, instead of Indianapolis Marathon after Indianapolis Marathon. Right. 

So that's why we have directive tasks whose nature ENCOURAGES us to play co-op for ease of completion. Right. 

So that's why the Hit Hard and Strong-Willed campaigns included co-op completable pathways, which none of the others had ever done before. Right. 

Thunder, I respect you greatly, but if I were going to become a co-op exclusive, I would accept that there would be some things in this game from which I would forever be shut out. After the Indy marathon, I was so burned-out on events like that, I was ready to set records for the amount of XP accumulated on the Ishizuchi in co-op, or to walk away from WOWS altogether. Directives threw me a lifeline. Everything Wargaming has done for PvE since August 2018 has kept me playing when I had periods of being so sick of Random Battles I never wanted to play them again. 

There might be some things that co-op exclusives are shut out of, for sure, but it's a whole lot better than it was in the past. You want to stay out of PvP and ops as a life choice? That's the cross you choose to bear. 

 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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Love your posts Admiral Thunder but I have to disagree with the lack PVE content.

- 3 out of four Twitch missions are doable in Co-op
- All directives so far this year have been doable in Co-op without going mad ( Puerto Rico event )
- Mercy rule adjustment w/ extra bot, thus allowing more players ( namely battleships ) a chance to participate.

For the most part I think Co-op perfect. @Hapa_Fodder has stated he is working on stuff with Co-op in mind.

I do agree however that Co-op should have achievements but with significantly less reward, and I would love to see Yamamoto's campaign become doable in every game mode.

 

Edited by Beleaf_
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The goal is to push people out of PvE.  Two years ago I was called conspiracy theorist for pointing this out, and now people aren't laughing anymore are they?

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36 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Yes, WG cares nothing about the PVE side.

Hey boss, I don't think our host doesn't care..........I think our host doesn't see the profitability in PVE.   Somehow, they have convinced themselves that Randoms and Ranked are the profit driving platforms......  Since "throughput = profit", you would think that COOP is a far better platform because it is "faster and far more accessible" to entry level players...>!!!    But, for some odd reason, money is driving some really obtuse decisions.

Oh, they are forced to care somewhat.   Many of us haven't uninstalled because we "retired" to COOP.   They intentionally destroyed the "value" in Scenarios in an attempt to drive players back into Ranked and Randoms where their "spreadsheet analysts" see the best ROI........  And yet, if their ultimate goal is to de evolve the game into a simplistic, young adult shooter that is eSales capable, they are going about it the wrong way for sure by messing with COOP in anyway....

I wonder if there is a cost to them we are missing that is tied to COOP????  Some cash drain??  Heck, it could be they want fewer modes to maintain and COOP and scenarios are the most expensive????  

It does seem that COOP sometimes gets crapped on though.........  :cap_like:

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1 hour ago, Beleaf_ said:

Love your posts Admiral Thunder but I have to disagree with the lack PVE content.

- 3 out of four Twitch missions are doable in Co-op
- All directives so far this year have been doable in Co-op without going mad ( Puerto Rico event )
- Mercy rule adjustment w/ extra bot, thus allowing more players ( namely battleships ) a chance to participate.

For the most part I think Co-op perfect. @Hapa_Fodder has stated he is working on stuff with Co-op in mind.

I do agree however that Co-op should have achievements but with significantly less reward, and I would love to see Yamamoto's campaign become doable in every game mode.

 

Thanks for the tag, but I do not particularly see a point in continuing to explain the changes we are making as a result of the feedback we have been given and explaining that making a lot of the missions both PvP and PvE capable will probably not end up how you like them again, as the requirements have to be significantly more difficult for the rewards given. Especially considering some of the comments in this thread alone. But yes, I have been getting changes to happen and more are coming.

-Hapa

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ooooo first time I had a mod in my thread "Sinpai noticed me" :fish_aqua:

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35 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Thanks for the tag, but I do not particularly see a point in continuing to explain the changes we are making as a result of the feedback we have been given and explaining that making a lot of the missions both PvP and PvE capable will probably not end up how you like them again, as the requirements have to be significantly more difficult for the rewards given. Especially considering some of the comments in this thread alone. But yes, I have been getting changes to happen and more are coming.

-Hapa

Missions being more difficult to accomplish in PVE is not an issue, not to me anyway. Halsey vs Yamamoto. I am happily slogging through the Halsey tasks, will take me quite some time but the light at the end is worth it to me. I would like the same thing for Yamamoto, especially with the dearth of special IJN skippers. But this thread isn't about that, it's about some sloppy work done by someone ticking programming checkboxes while setting up a mission for a rare cammo and some useful flags. A mistake that ISN'T all that rare. Care to comment on that?

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26 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Thanks for the tag, but I do not particularly see a point in continuing to explain the changes we are making as a result of the feedback we have been given and explaining that making a lot of the missions both PvP and PvE capable will probably not end up how you like them again, as the requirements have to be significantly more difficult for the rewards given. Especially considering some of the comments in this thread alone. But yes, I have been getting changes to happen and more are coming.

-Hapa

  1. The comments are based on YEARS of exclusion, or only limited inclusion, and being lied to and treated like 2nd class customers over and over and over by WG and people in positions like you hold. It continues on in so many ways that I don't believe there is a shift in policy re: PVE. Sadly, we are still not worth anything and don't matter to WG for the most part outside of an occasional bone thrown our way. The comments I made and others made here are EARNED sir! I am tired of being lied to and treated as less than when I contribute so much to this game via the forums, money spent, time playing, etc... But I only Co-op so I am just the lowly unwashed.
  2. You have made a lot of claims about how you champion our cause, and I hope they are true and you mean it and actually are doing it, but I have heard this before from others who talked big and nothing really has changed (in the last couple years anyway- we are stuck on a plateau). I have seen a little change since you showed up (your efforts in Contests for example) and said you wanted to help us but frankly it mostly seems more of the same where we are told be patient it is coming but it never does. Just lip service and little tid bits to try and keep us from complaining is what it feels like to me anyway.
  3. When have you explained all these changes that are coming? When? I must have missed it. I have seen nothing but we are making changes and working on it be patient. Again, heard that so often I don't believe it at face value anymore. So please enlighten all of us as to what is coming or is it going to be classified as NDA or something? Not being snarky just simply asking that you tell us what you are doing for us other than "trust me I got your back". I am tired of being told "it is coming",  but it never does.
  4. The ONLY thing I have actually seen you be specific on is the part about it is hard to make tasks PVP/PVE reasonable for all. That is fair and I get that BUT how about step 1 being if you decide to make something Co-op doable don't make a task achievement based when Co-op doesn't have any! I don't see how that is so :etc_swear:hard to implement into the process. Seems pretty simple to me. Do people at WG even know how their own game works? Only being able to do part of missions, with PVP requirements to finish, is also annoying as all get out. Why even bother include Co-op if you make us PVP to finish it?

So with all respect sir until I see actual changes made that go beyond the small things here and there, I mean real change where Co-op and the players there aren't treated like garbage, your words are just that = words. Respect and belief now has to be earned from me. Telling me I am working on it trust me doesn't cut it anymore. Tell us what you are working on just in general and give us some kind of timetable to look forward to is what we want. Do what you claim you are doing and be open about what you are doing. I know that goes against WG policy (which btw was clearly stated not long ago as NOT including changes/improvements to PVE - JUST PVP) but if you want us to believe you earn it because so far you are like all the others - mainly talk.

I know I was blunt here but I am tired of being talked down to and chastised by WG and their employees for speaking up and asking for equal treatment as a customer. Also gets old when we complain because ONCE AGAIN we get the shaft in something being talked to as if we are ungrateful children. We are CUSTOMERS and as a result have the right to complain when that happens. If you/WG wants me/us to believe you care and are making changes to better things for Co-op players then for god sake get of the pot and actually do it vs just telling us you are. We have been waiting for what 2-3 years now for Co-op achievements after Sub O made a comment on Reddit they were coming at a later date/in the works just not enough time to do that year. How many decades do we have to wait?

Co-op players aren't asking for outrageous or unreasonable things. Just fair treatment, inclusion, and respect. 

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2 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Thanks for the tag, but I do not particularly see a point in continuing to explain the changes we are making as a result of the feedback we have been given and explaining that making a lot of the missions both PvP and PvE capable will probably not end up how you like them again, as the requirements have to be significantly more difficult for the rewards given. Especially considering some of the comments in this thread alone. But yes, I have been getting changes to happen and more are coming.

-Hapa

I can't really follow up @AdmiralThunder's great response, but I can add further evidence about Wargaming's lack of commitment and apathy to the PvE community: Scenarios. 

Wargaming has not only neglected to fix Scenarios unless we drag them kicking and screaming to do so we have still lost half the Scenarios with promises of their return that have come to be nothing but talk. Then to insult us further Wargaming decided for absolutely no sensible reason to nerf the 5 star rewards to make it actually worse to bother trying for them. Wargaming has shown time and again that they don't care about the PvE aspect of this game, which is a real shame, given that the PvE side of this game was one of the things people really love about this game. Then again, given the current trend of Wargaming's lack of thought when it comes to the future of this game I shouldn't be surprised. 

Wargaming believes that constantly pumping out new and reskinned ships will make us happy, but it doesn't, it just makes their pokets heavier with green. If Wargaming actually cared or bothered to listen they would stop stuffing us with ships and fix the problems players actually have for example:

- Lack of proper in-game tutorials 

- An increasing number of hard DD counters

- The horrible inconsistency of AA

- The continued issues of slow load in

- The neglect of PvE

- The powercreep of several old ships

- Wargaming's resistance to make real ships and instead obsess with paper

- Wargaming's increasing lack of quality control with announcements 

- Wargaming's continuing PR blunders

Wargaming is trying to hide problems by stuffing us players full of content hoping to hide the problems with a gilded facade, but take a look below the surface and you can see thst the structure under it is rotting away. Hiding the problems behind glitz and glam dosen't change the fact they are there,and if you continue to ignore it eventually the structure will give out, and when it does Wargaming will be truly unable to fix it.

Edited by Neko_Ship_Akashi
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@Hapa_Fodder:

Listed below is one of the issues.

First, having a mission that is 2/3 doable in coop in one thing.  Not everything is available to everyone doing whatever they want is what it is.

But listing it available for coop is just sloppy.

Example.JPG

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4 hours ago, DrHolmes52 said:

@Hapa_Fodder:

Listed below is one of the issues.

First, having a mission that is 2/3 doable in coop in one thing.  Not everything is available to everyone doing whatever they want is what it is.

But listing it available for coop is just sloppy.

Example.JPG

Pretty much that's what irritates the most, either inattention or ignorance neither of which is a good sign. It should be fixed pronto. Not by changing the wording to make if COOP exclusatory but by changing the requirement to 10 Achievements OR 20 Destroyed Ribbons or somesuch.

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Just now, Efros said:

Pretty much that's what irritates the most, either inattention or ignorance neither of which is a good sign. It should be fixed pronto. Not by changing the wording to make if COOP exclusatory but by changing the requirement to 10 Achievements OR 20 Destroyed Ribbons or somesuch.

They wouldn't even change the Exeter event Stage 4 when we brought this exact same problem to light with WEEKS to correct it before that stage went active, and they admitted it was a mistake and shouldn't have been that way, let alone something running right now. PVE players do not matter to them no matetr how much Hapa and some others say we are wrong. You can bet your sweet :etc_swear: however IF they screwed something up that was PVP task related it would get fixed quicker than you could blink. Those players matter; us not so much.

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I really wonder how many PVE players are actually F2P.

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1 hour ago, Efros said:

I really wonder how many PVE players are actually F2P.

I have a fair stock of purchased premiums. Several were bought specifically with PVE in mind. I bought a years worth of premium time at Christmas, too.

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To err is human.
To "Lead by good example" is also human.
 

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