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Admiral_Thrawn_1

Shikishima Better AA Than Bourgogne?

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Was running some numbers and noticed that Shikishima may have better AA than Bourgogne!?

Shikishima has 116 AA gun barrels to shoot down planes with and AA rating of 97. Plus it can carry catapult fighters if added SA was deemed needed, but more like would use Spotter aircraft.

Bourgogne carries 69 AA gun barrels to shoot down planes with and AA rating of 95. No ability to carry catapult fighters.

(Not sure if the number of gun barrels that are firing at aircraft matter as much as other factors but included the numbers just Incase as it was interesting bit of curiosity.)

Looking forward to thoughts and comments on this as I found it to be a bit interesting since Jean Bart and Bourgogne are supposedly the best AA BBs, or perhaps were the best?

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They're pretty close and I'd give the very slight advantage to Bourgogne (Shikashima).

Long Range

- Bourgogne has longer range by 0.2km.

- Bourgogne has better flak damage.

+ Shikashima has better aura DPS.

 

Medium Range

- Bourgogne has better range by 0.3km.

- Bourgogne has better aura DPS.

 

Short Range

+ Shikashima has better range by 0.5km.

- Bourgogne has better aura DPS.

 

IMO, I give the edge to Bourgogne because of the better long and medium range AA to start whittling aircraft further away while the short range AA will be sufficient in shooting up what makes it past that.  Regardless, Shikashima is like Kii, she has very fierce AA which is highly unusual for the IJN to begin with.

 

"AA" and "IJN" are like oil and water.  They don't mix, but in WoWS they do with Kii & Shikashima.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

They're pretty close and I'd give the very slight advantage to Bourgogne (Shikashima).

Long Range

- Bourgogne has longer range by 0.2km.

- Bourgogne has better flak damage.

+ Shikashima has better aura DPS.

 

Medium Range

- Bourgogne has better range by 0.3km.

- Bourgogne has better aura DPS.

 

Short Range

+ Shikashima has better range by 0.5km.

- Bourgogne has better aura DPS.

 

IMO, I give the edge to Bourgogne because of the better long and medium range AA to start whittling aircraft further away while the short range AA will be sufficient in shooting up what makes it past that.  Regardless, Shikashima is like Kii, she has very fierce AA which is highly unusual for the IJN to begin with.

 

"AA" and "IJN" are like oil and water.  They don't mix, but in WoWS they do with Kii & Shikashima.

I am a little surprised by how good Shikishima is looking when so many people were writing off the ship as garbage. Which if you measured the ship solely in terms of main gun output, mobility, stealth, and armor it might be. But add in good secondary build capabilities as well as good AA and the thing is proving a lot better than expected / advertised by testers and CCs to say the least.

 

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Please don't compare AA by ratings, ratings by themselves are flawed and often obscure facts.

Here's a side by side comparison of Shikishima (left) base AA versus Bourgogne (right) base AA. No upgrades, no commander skills, no signals.

1518752861_Screenshot_2020-06-24WoWSFittingTool.thumb.png.3db6565ef992428d9d6a97bdc69320b2.png

Would say it depends on how well a CV player can dodge Shikishima's flak, otherwise the longer reach of Bourgogne's medium and long range AA could make a tiny bit of a difference. I wouldn't bother too much with the near AA aura since if you need to fire at 2-2,5km, you are getting dropped regardless.

Still, that doesn't mean Shikishima's AA is bad. When you compare yourself to the best AA BBs that means something.

Also keep in mind this is theoretical and doesn't account for AA mount durability. You can have the best AA in the game by far, and then a Conqueror salvo strips half of it away.

Edited by warheart1992
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@warheart1992 Thank you for the chart! It’s quite helpful. Any idea how durable the AA mounts are on Shikishima vs Bourgogne?

French BBs tend to either have AA mounts that are easily stripped away or fairly durable. Have had Republique AA almost completely stripped away before and I did not even use her that many battles to have seen that happen and that was with Preventative Maintenance.

Meanwhile the Shikishima 100mm AA mounts I know tend to be pretty durable on IJN ships, not sure about the other AA mounts though. Shikishima also can opt for Auxiliary Armaments Mod instead of Main Armaments Mod to help with secondary weapons mounts durability thanks to just how thick the armor is on Yamato BB main batteries and Shikishima is armored like Yamato.

So the average practical AA effectively of Bourgogne would depend on how durable her AA mounts are vs the Shikishima. ( Honestly neither ship should be enduring sustained air attacks throughout a battle. But there is always the occasional CV player just crazy enough to attack the same target until it’s destroyed no matter if it’s an infamously strong AA ship or not. So AA on a tier X BB is at least some what important.)

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

@warheart1992 Thank you for the chart! It’s quite helpful. Any idea how durable the AA mounts are on Shikishima vs Bourgogne?

French BBs tend to either have AA mounts that are easily stripped away or fairly durable. Have had Republique AA almost completely stripped away before and I did not even use her that many battles to have seen that happen and that was with Preventative Maintenance.

Meanwhile the Shikishima 100mm AA mounts I know tend to be pretty durable on IJN ships, not sure about the other AA mounts though. Shikishima also can opt for Auxiliary Armaments Mod instead of Main Armaments Mod to help with secondary weapons mounts durability thanks to just how thick the armor is on Yamato BB main batteries and Shikishima is armored like Yamato.

So the average practical AA effectively of Bourgogne would depend on how durable her AA mounts are vs the Shikishima. ( Honestly neither ship should be enduring sustained air attacks throughout a battle. But there is always the occasional CV player just crazy enough to attack the same target until it’s destroyed no matter if it’s an infamously strong AA ship or not. So AA on a tier X BB is at least some what important.)

Judging by the mount survivability of the Yamato when I play her in a full brawling build, which isn't too bad, I would say the shikishima is probably a bit more durable than the bourgogne in this department. 

Keep in mind, too, that the shikishima has significantly better armored turrets.

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11 minutes ago, Ranari said:

Judging by the mount survivability of the Yamato when I play her in a full brawling build, which isn't too bad, I would say the shikishima is probably a bit more durable than the bourgogne in this department. 

Keep in mind, too, that the shikishima has significantly better armored turrets.

Better armored secondary or main gun turrets? And better armored than what?

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4 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Better armored secondary or main gun turrets? And better armored than what?

Secondary mount survivability isn't bad in the Yamato, so I would expect Shikishima to be much the same.

Shikishima has significantly better armored main battery turrets than Bourgogne. 

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On 6/24/2020 at 4:27 AM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Was running some numbers and noticed that Shikishima may have better AA than Bourgogne!?

Shikishima has 116 AA gun barrels to shoot down planes with and AA rating of 97. Plus it can carry catapult fighters if added SA was deemed needed, but more like would use Spotter aircraft.

Bourgogne carries 69 AA gun barrels to shoot down planes with and AA rating of 95. No ability to carry catapult fighters.

(Not sure if the number of gun barrels that are firing at aircraft matter as much as other factors but included the numbers just Incase as it was interesting bit of curiosity.)

Looking forward to thoughts and comments on this as I found it to be a bit interesting since Jean Bart and Bourgogne are supposedly the best AA BBs, or perhaps were the best?

Shiki has better aura DPS while the Borg has better flak is the primary difference. 
Shiki with the massive AA barrage skill is actually a 'buhbye attack sqdrn' button press feature if you have full secondary/AA spec. You just got to wait until the cv detaches the atk squadron from the flight to whack them. 

 

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