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eviltane

Tanes Newb guide to High Tier DDs.

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Alright as the title states. This is meant to be a newbies guides to high tier DD play. Its not meant for our unicums. It is written in reply to the video posted by NoZoup.  If you follow these steps you can absolutely give unicum DDs a hard time and compete with them for caps and help your team win.

This guide applies directly to any DD  at or below 6.1km concealment.  For DDs above 6.1km concealment  I would suggest @DolphinPrincess guide to Russian DDs on reddit. 

For more detailed info and people to ask questions about DD play visit @Destroyer_KuroshioKai discord https://discord.gg/8qkhVXn   and watch his youtube videos, they are all focused around DDs and around explaining how to play them:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-CVV_QxU4CesZL5pvdJw4A    Despite some disagreements I may have he is an invaluable resource for DD play.

 

Pre battle preparation:  

1. Put on Camo. 

2. Put on every signalflag that will help increase your ships combat performance that you have enough off.

3. Make sure you have all your modules including concealment mod. 

4. Make sure that you have your captain specced properly. Like Concealment expert (Ran into a Kagero yesterday that was spotted at 6.6km).   I highly recommend always using Priority Target for your 1 point skill. RDF (RPF) is another skill  I personally recommend.  

5. Learn Radar ranges. You should always be able to identify which ships bring radar and what ranges those radars work at, bonus points for knowing how many consumables they could bring. 

 

Now that all that is sorted lets move on. 

Loading into battle: 

 1. Count the number of Radar ships the enemy have and identify the ranges they will be working at. 

2. Count the number of DDs and identify what type of ships they are (torp boats or gun boats, sneaky boats or bruisers)  or if they could be bringing gimmicks ( reload boosters or radars or hydros) . Also take a stab at identifying rough concealment ranges and torpedo reload times ( Japanese Russian boats have SLOW  reloads, European boats have FAST  torpedo reloads).

3. Of course also take note if they bring CVs and what nation they are.  US is more dangerous then Japan. Mostly because a good CV captain can hit you with their dive bombers.  HE bombs hurt like a [edited].   

4. Check for Venezias.  Besides CVs these guys are the meanest DD killers after Radars.  (Quite frankly I rather deal with a radar ship then a Venezia).   

Zoning your map:  

You know how many and what type of radar they have. You know what your DD opposition is.  How can you go about reading the map before you know enemy positions? 

 

 Now for myself I divide up a map into zones.

492550656_Nmap1modified.thumb.jpg.fb5b450b35af1b0a17e2e86c519bd571.jpg

( This map is old and the zones aren't 100% to scale.  but it looks good and I am using it purely as an example of how I divide up the maps at the start of the battle).

1. First I draw the center white line in my head. Everything on the other side of that line belongs to the enemy.  

2.  I draw the red zone in my mind.  The red zone is 3 km  either side from the center line.  Basically if you  enter the red zone and the enemy DD  decides to enter it opposite you then you should spot each other. It also represent the space where you are close enough to the likely enemy cruisers for you to die quickly.   I very rarely enter the red zone early in the match  unless I already know the enemy DD positions or I have what seems like overwhelming fire support.      

3. I draw the orange zone.  It basically reaches out another 3-5km from the red zone. To me this zone represents possible enemy radar range    I will enter this zone early, however only when I have escape options. Make mental notes when you do get radared, try to identify who most likely radared you and do a rough 2 minute cooldown in your head.  You might have time to grab a cap in between radars or get into a position to torpedo the radar ship during a cooldown. 

4. I mark likely enemy radar positions (yellow). Over time you will learn what the most common positions on each map are.  Take a look where each radar could be torpedoed from.  For example in the above map , Radar ships in the north on C can be pushed back and torpedoed from F9 and G9. The radar north of A can be torpedoed from the gap at G2 or from the gap by F1 (thought I wouldn't go to F1 unless I knew I had overwhelming guns down the 1 line).   From the North you can torp and push back the Radars south of A from D2 .  

5. Lastly I mark where I can go to cap (Blue). Note these cap spots are outside of the red zone.   I always cap at the edge of the cap  with my bow (front) pointing out (for fast escapes).   I never come to a complete stop , instead switching between 1/4 speed forward and reverse ( this makes dodging blind torps way easier).    I point my rear end towards the direction where its most likely enemies launched their torpedoes from (again for dodging blind torps).    

I follow this zone layout anywhere from the first 5 mins to the first 10 minutes.  Really its up until the point where I know the enemies positions. 

This zone layout works the same whether maps are horizontally, vertically or diagonally mirrored. You just need to make sure that if you are on a diagonally mirrored map that you don't get caught up against the borders that squish together in the corners. 

 

Start of Battle: 

Now with all of the prep work having been done.   

First  rules of thumb :     Nobody dies faster then a DD. So STAY SAFE kids.  You kind of want your health to mirror the match timer  IF you are half way through battle and haven't taken any damage you can look at taking risks that might cost you half your health. Or if you have only 1/4 HP left with 3/4 of match time left then you need to play extremely carefully.   

1. ALWAYS  FIGHT BY THE CAP YOU SPAWN AT.    This doesn't mean you have to cap. It doesn't mean you have to rush for it.  It does mean that your flank has a DD that can do DD things like spot, keep enemy DDs at bay and maybe cap .  The only exception to this rule is if you are spawned with 2 DDs on your flank. Then one may go directly to another cap if they must ( like if mid didn't get a DD).  Personally I still prefer to stay. If your team decides to abandon that cap then they are fools and potatoes. However it still doesn't mean you can just run away and do nothing. It means that you just got stuck with rear guard actions, You can't rely on your team mates because they are potatoes so you need to play 5x as safe. However you can fight a delaying action. 

2. (KEEP AA OFF  by pressing "P") If a CV is around avoid rushing into caps early and stay about 3-4 km  ahead of your cruisers.  If the CV comes for you stay the in cruisers AA and even turn back deeper into it.  The CV will most often take a hint at that point and go pester someone else. This in turn will give you time and freedom of movement again. If he is busy at another cap  or comes down the middle then goes to the other side again you should have time and freedom of movement. 

3.  Spend a few minutes scoping out your cap. I tend to go out towards the outside flank first ( map allowing)  to get a better eye on cruisers and BBs. I will send early blind torpedoes towards the most likely enemy DDs approaching my cap.   Every now and then you will catch them off guard just as they settle in to cap.    

4. Once you know most likely enemy positions you can make the choice to go in and cap or not. 

 

During mid to late Battle:  

This is where things get fuzzy and my time is running short and Destroyer_Kuroshais guides will do you better anyway. 

The biggest tips I can give you are: 

1. Stay Safe. 

2. Stay aware of enemy positions and who could be coming to ambush you.

3.  Torp boats do far better on the receiving end of an enemy push then chasing a retreating enemy.   

 4. Never smoke up when capping unless you are forced. 

5. Never completely stop when in smoke and keep your rear end towards likely incoming torpedoes. 

Anyway  good luck captains, go and frustrate some unicum DDs. 

 

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It's all great advise unless the enemy has a CV and if those planes end up on your side of the map. It's easy to list a bunch of rules to follow however, battles don't follow rules. You can go to the side of the map with no or less radar ships only to find that the CV decided to send his planes your way.  You might think your safe on one end of the map only to find that a radar ship has been hiding behind an island the entire time without you realizing it only to find out when radar is suddenly turned on. 
If your battle includes one enemy CV and 3-4 enemy radar ships spread evenly on both sides you have no option but to stay your distance for the first half of the battle while contributing little to the team. On the other hand you can decide to move forward while keeping distance and spot for your team until a plane spots you and your ship is instantly deleted.  

Radar creep, CV unlimited planes that can fly Mach2 with rockets that can take out 30% of a DD's health in one sweep has made playing DDs very unpleasant to say the least. Torpedo boats had one thing they could depend on before all of this; Concealment, which has now been made obsolete. 

Edited by STINKWEED_
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5 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

It's easy to list a bunch of rules to follow however, battles don't follow rules.

To quote Peter Venkman when faced with a very seductive and possessed Dana Barratt: "Actually, it's more of a guideline than a rule."

@eviltane's trying to give us a look at what goes on in his head when playing DD, and the sort of things he thinks about. As always, it's up to the reader to apply that for themselves. Those who do so successfully end up being the best DD captains; it's as simple as that.

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5 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

It's all great advise unless the enemy has a CV and if those planes end up on your side of the map. It's easy to list a bunch of rules to follow however, battles don't follow rules. You can go to the side of the map with no or less radar ships only to find that the CV decided to send his planes your way.  You might think your safe on one end of the map only to find that a radar ship has been hiding behind an island the entire time without you realizing it only to find out when radar is suddenly turned on. 
If your battle includes one enemy CV and 3-4 enemy radar ships spread evening on both sides you have no option but to stay your distance for the first half while contributing little to the team. On the other hand you can decide to move forward while keeping distance and spot for the team until a plane spots you and your ship is deleted in four seconds.  

Radar creep, CV unlimited planes that can fly Mach2 with rockets that can take out 30% of a DD's health in one sweep has made playing DDs very unpleasant to say the least. Torpedo boats had one thing they could depend on before all of this; Concealment, which has now been made obsolete. 

I have raged on and on about CVs . Yes they are bad for DDs. However I play on the same server as you against the same lineups. If you can implement what I wrote above you can most definitely help your team and go well into positive win rates. Ofcourse there are more rules and tips and stuff to learn. This guide is meant for those who have problems in playing DDs. 

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

To quote Peter Venkman when faced with a very seductive and possessed Dana Barratt: "Actually, it's more of a guideline than a rule."

@eviltane's trying to give us a look at what goes on in his head when playing DD, and the sort of things he thinks about. As always, it's up to the reader to apply that for themselves. Those who do so successfully end up being the best DD captains; it's as simple as that.

This!!! Thank you. 

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9 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

It's all great advise unless the enemy has a CV and if those planes end up on your side of the map. It's easy to list a bunch of rules to follow however, battles don't follow rules. You can go to the side of the map with no or less radar ships only to find that the CV decided to send his planes your way.  You might think your safe on one end of the map only to find that a radar ship has been hiding behind an island the entire time without you realizing it only to find out when radar is suddenly turned on. 
If your battle includes one enemy CV and 3-4 enemy radar ships spread evenly on both sides you have no option but to stay your distance for the first half of the battle while contributing little to the team. On the other hand you can decide to move forward while keeping distance and spot for your team until a plane spots you and your ship is instantly deleted.  

Radar creep, CV unlimited planes that can fly Mach2 with rockets that can take out 30% of a DD's health in one sweep has made playing DDs very unpleasant to say the least. Torpedo boats had one thing they could depend on before all of this; Concealment, which has now been made obsolete. 

You mean like this
 

20200623_111932_PWSD110-Halland_35_NE_north_winter.wowsreplay

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Good stuff.

46 minutes ago, eviltane said:

Alright as the title states.

 

I try to tell people.... pretend it's real. would you rush out into the middle of a cap or center of a map without knowing who was where? Of course not. Live and spot first, cap and profit later.

Loiter around caps, 90% of all that cap early immediately leave the cap and literally give it away if you go in 5 seconds later. They get a grand total of 6 points and think they are winning the game.

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44 minutes ago, eviltane said:

Alright as the title states. This is meant to be a newbies guides to high tier DD play. Its not meant for our unicums. It is written in reply to the video posted by NoZoup.  If you follow these steps you can absolutely give unicum DDs a hard time and compete with them for caps and help your team win.

 

All good advice.

Now put it in to a video. I would even be willing to go in a training room with you and others to help make it. Might be what is needed to help some of the people.

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You could have added in reversing into a cap is a good method for damage prevention and can help you quickly get unspotted without burning a smoke if you’re outgunned.

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Good sound common sense advice.......................................................for DDs 

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Jesus, I should write a how-to-play dd guide.    Yes two number ones.

My rules.  

1. Have an exit plan.

1.  The days of pushing caps out of the gate are over.

2.  Review ship match ups.  Find your threats. Make sure you find them in battle and avoid until last resort.  Game close need to take a cap, make sure you find that Radar cruiser if they are alive before making the play.  

3.  Map awareness.  Team tendencies. 

4.  If you don't have the support you going have to work, work hard.

5.  CVs are going to make number 4 x10 harder.

Feel free to list more that have not been covered.

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1 hour ago, Nachoo31 said:

Jesus, I should write a how-to-play dd guide.    Yes two number ones.

My rules.  

1. Have an exit plan.

1.  The days of pushing caps out of the gate are over.

2.  Review ship match ups.  Find your threats. Make sure you find them in battle and avoid until last resort.  Game close need to take a cap, make sure you find that Radar cruiser if they are alive before making the play.  

3.  Map awareness.  Team tendencies. 

4.  If you don't have the support you going have to work, work hard.

5.  CVs are going to make number 4 x10 harder.

Feel free to list more that have not been covered.

The more the merrier. 

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3 hours ago, eviltane said:

1. ALWAYS  FIGHT BY THE CAP YOU SPAWN AT.    This doesn't mean you have to cap. It doesn't mean you have to rush for it.  It does mean that your flank has a DD that can do DD things like spot, keep enemy DDs at bay and maybe cap .  The only exception to this rule is if you are spawned with 2 DDs on your flank. Then one may go directly to another cap if they must ( like if mid didn't get a DD).  Personally I still prefer to stay. If your team decides to abandon that cap then they are fools and potatoes. However it still doesn't mean you can just run away and do nothing. It means that you just got stuck with rear guard actions, You can't rely on your team mates because they are potatoes so you need to play 5x as safe. However you can fight a delaying action. 

All looks good to me, but I really appreciate this and I'd like to add that this generally applies to ALL ships.  Far too often I see ships completely leave a cap and give up map control.  As you point out, you don't have to push into the cap, but at the very least you need to maintain map presence and try to contest the cap so the other team doesn't get a free cap and gets good position for crossfires.

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1 hour ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

All looks good to me, but I really appreciate this and I'd like to add that this generally applies to ALL ships.  Far too often I see ships completely leave a cap and give up map control.  As you point out, you don't have to push into the cap, but at the very least you need to maintain map presence and try to contest the cap so the other team doesn't get a free cap and gets good position for crossfires.

OH yes this is oh so true. 

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