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kgh52

a suggestion for those wishing to change MM

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Because of the variables in all random battles stats from these matches leave a lot to be desired if we wish to have a accurate picture.

Create 2 groups of 24 players, one group less than 50% or whatever win rate you choose, the other with those above the chosen win rate, use the training grounds so the same map can be used everytime & play 1000 battles.

Than play another 1000 battles by randomly picking the teams. Post you findings and suggestion based on that data.

This way the data is collected from a source that is controlled as much as possible.

 

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I don't understand why some people are so against a skill based matchmaker.

Worst case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker does nothing at all to effect matchmaker quality. 

Any other case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker is successful in removing some of the steamroller matches.

 

We have literally nothing to lose by transitioning to a skill based matchmaker, other than about 2% win rate for our super unicum players.

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23 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

I don't understand why some people are so against a skill based matchmaker.

Worst case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker does nothing at all to effect matchmaker quality. 

Any other case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker is successful in removing some of the steamroller matches.

 

We have literally nothing to lose by transitioning to a skill based matchmaker, other than about 2% win rate for our super unicum players.

The worst case scenario is that it does nothing at all BUT increase the wait times in queue while the MM tries to balance teams.

And the other scenario is that the skilled based MM works correctly which over time drives every single player to exactly a 50% win rate.....and then what happens?  Plus why then try to improve your skill if no matter what you do you will have a 50% win rate??

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17 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

I don't understand why some people are so against a skill based matchmaker.

Worst case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker does nothing at all to effect matchmaker quality. 

Any other case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker is successful in removing some of the steamroller matches.

 

We have literally nothing to lose by transitioning to a skill based matchmaker, other than about 2% win rate for our super unicum players.

Because it is too fun to take unicum divisions into matches and seal club potatoes.  Where it gets ridiculous is when the same players complain about CV's being too influential.

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11 minutes ago, Merc85 said:

The worst case scenario is that it does nothing at all BUT increase the wait times in queue while the MM tries to balance teams.

And the other scenario is that the skilled based MM works correctly which over times drives every single player to exactly a 50% win rate.....and then what happens?  Plus why then try to improve your skill if no matter what you do you will have a 50% win rate??

They wont do it but IF they did they have to match per SHIP not overall win % because some people will take ships they dont care about and not play to get a bad % on those ships so they can take there good ships out with the higher % wins and get them in with the less skilled players.  It prolly would work but it needs to be skill % by the ship. 

Edited by CRZY_TRAIN

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4 minutes ago, Merc85 said:

The worst case scenario is that it does nothing at all BUT increase the wait times in queue while the MM tries to balance teams.

And the other scenario is that the skilled based MM works correctly which over times drives every single player to exactly a 50% win rate.....and then what happens?  Plus why then try to improve your skill if no matter what you do you will have a 50% win rate??

There are many more metrics to be factored along with WR.  I used to be part of the "non skill based MM crowd" however after running MM monitor and paying attention to all stats pre game it is fairly easy and reliable to predict what certain ships are going to do AND how the match will end up.  If a free 3rd part add on can give me this information you cant tell me WG could not figure out a way to use it to better balance games.  Yeah people with players who are exceptionally good and bad who want to div up with others of similar skill will probably experience longer wait times.  I am ok with this as I would rather spend an extra few minutes in que and get a fun, drawn out brawl over the lopsided games we see far too frequently.

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27 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

I don't understand why some people are so against a skill based matchmaker.

Worst case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker does nothing at all to effect matchmaker quality. 

Any other case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker is successful in removing some of the steamroller matches.

 

We have literally nothing to lose by transitioning to a skill based matchmaker, other than about 2% win rate for our super unicum players.

You missed the all important, people figure out how the skill based matchmaker works, and selectively throw games to try and manipulate the Match Maker.

Somebody would figure it out and try it, much to everyone's annoyance in the matches that get intentionally thrown.

Better to have nothing to manipulate.

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53 minutes ago, Merc85 said:

The worst case scenario is that it does nothing at all BUT increase the wait times in queue while the MM tries to balance teams.

And the other scenario is that the skilled based MM works correctly which over time drives every single player to exactly a 50% win rate.....and then what happens?  Plus why then try to improve your skill if no matter what you do you will have a 50% win rate??

I didn't want to say I'm going to destroy you, but I'm going to destroy you, lol.

Don't worry, I'll be gentle, I'm not the A-hole type.

ATTENTION ANTI SKILL BASED MATCHMAKER CROWD: PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING.

The WHOLE point of a skill based matchmaker is to reduce the win rate of unicum players and increase the win rate of garbage players. By reducing that gap you reduce the amount blowout games. I know it sounds stupid. "Why would you want to decrease the win rate gap between good and bad players?" It's because it's the nature of how these statistics are going to have to work. (It's also how you know that the new matchmaker is working)

It also means 50%ish players are going to be even closer to 50%. But so will everyone else. The win rate window between bad and good players will still be there, it will just appear smaller. And even then, it won't be leaving anytime soon. I.E. good players will always influence matches for the better, and as long as that is true, there will always be a win rate gap between good and bad players. 

P.S. 

It would be a real shame if you had to wait 2 minutes to get into a game instead of just 1.

Edited by CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN
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1 hour ago, CRZY_TRAIN said:

They wont do it but IF they did they have to match per SHIP not overall win % because some people will take ships they dont care about and not play to get a bad % on those ships so they can take there good ships out with the higher % wins and get them in with the less skilled players.  It prolly would work but it needs to be skill % by the ship. 

 

50 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

You missed the all important, people figure out how the skill based matchmaker works, and selectively throw games to try and manipulate the Match Maker.

Somebody would figure it out and try it, much to everyone's annoyance in the matches that get intentionally thrown.

Better to have nothing to manipulate.

I didn't miss it...I just don't get it (it being the point).

Throwing a match does not increase your WR...in fact it does the exact opposite.

People have certain ships that are their favorites & they like to keep the individual stats on those ships high if they can but I don't get the point of throwing a match in a ship you don't like to increase your chances of getting better MM for a ship you do like...it doesn't make your WR better just because you have a higher WR in a certain ship if you need to intentionally lose games in other ships just to bring that certain ship's WR up.

:cap_wander::Smile_amazed: Yeah...I don't see it.

Some people definitely throw games just to be trolls but the concept of throwing games to increase the WR for a certain ship makes no sense...why care about 1 ships stats if you're overall stats are tanked just to bring that 1 ships stats up?

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43 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

By reducing that gap you reduce the amount blowout games.

This isnt necessarily true.

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1 hour ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

I don't understand why some people are so against a skill based matchmaker. 

Worst case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker does nothing at all to effect matchmaker quality. 

Any other case scenario:

The skill based matchmaker is successful in removing some of the steamroller matches.

 

We have literally nothing to lose by transitioning to a skill based matchmaker, other than about 2% win rate for our super unicum players.

There is no viable reason to assume things will improve. Why waste time & money without the possibility of improvement.

1 hour ago, CRZY_TRAIN said:

They r dead against it bc they cant beat on newer less skilled people to better there stats. pretty simple

You used a pronoun, they. Who are the "they" you're referring too?

Less skilled players have far more trouble padding their stats. Unicum players have no need to pad their stats. Those trying to move into or trying to keep from dropping out of the upper skill level are the only ones that will benefit from stat padding.

42 minutes ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

I didn't want to say I'm going to destroy you, but I'm going to destroy you, lol.

Don't worry, I'll be gentle, I'm not the A-hole type.

ATTENTION ANTI SKILL BASED MATCHMAKER CROWD: PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING.

The WHOLE point of a skill based matchmaker is to reduce the win rate of unicum players and increase the win rate of garbage players. By reducing that gap you reduce the amount blowout games. I know it sounds stupid. "Why would you want to decrease the win rate gap between good and bad players?" It's because it's the nature of how these statistics are going to have to work. (It's also how you know that the new matchmaker is working)

It also means 50%ish players are going to be even closer to 50%. But so will everyone else. The win rate window between bad and good players will still be there, it will just appear smaller. And even then, it won't be leaving anytime soon. I.E. good players will always influence matches for the better, and as long as that is true, there will always be a win rate gap between good and bad players. 

P.S. 

It would be a real shame if you had to wait 2 minutes to get into a game instead of just 1.

I read the "Please read the following" I do not agree with your opinion.

It is apparent you do not understand the negative impact of longer waits will not be offset by very questionable benefits of SBMM.

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4 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 

I didn't miss it...I just don't get it (it being the point).

Throwing a match does not increase your WR...in fact it does the exact opposite.

People have certain ships that are their favorites & they like to keep the individual stats on those ships high if they can but I don't get the point of throwing a match in a ship you don't like to increase your chances of getting better MM for a ship you do like...it doesn't make your WR better just because you have a higher WR in a certain ship if you need to intentionally lose games in other ships just to bring that certain ship's WR up.

:cap_wander::Smile_amazed: Yeah...I don't see it.

Some people definitely throw games just to be trolls but the concept of throwing games to increase the WR for a certain ship makes no sense...why care about 1 ships stats if you're overall stats are tanked just to bring that 1 ships stats up?

Increasing ones win rate wouldn't be the point. At the end of the day, if you play enough games the same way, for example, mostly solo, you're win rate isn't going to change much anyway.

They'd just find something else to brag about. while maintaining the 49.99% win rate or just under whatever the break point may be. Maybe simply bragging rights for the games they didn't throw. Pay no attention to the matches where they scored 5 points and 2 teamkills then had to scrub off the pink from after the fact.

 

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I would feel safe saying there will not be SBMM for random. 
 

The closest thing your going to get will be CB and  KoTS

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1 hour ago, HallaSnackbar said:

Because it is too fun to take unicum divisions into matches and seal club potatoes.  Where it gets ridiculous is when the same players complain about CV's being too influential.

what? sarcasm or cretinism? 

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1 hour ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

The WHOLE point of a skill based matchmaker is to reduce the win rate of unicum players and increase the win rate of garbage players. By reducing that gap you reduce the amount blowout games.

1 hour ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

It also means 50%ish players are going to be even closer to 50%.

According to the current and pass WOWS numbers, along with data for other game titles... Your views is not based on anything concrete, you have created a distorted view on SBMM not based on reality.

WOWS has industry lvl communication and data on SBMM, they have concluded, SBMM is a game killer.  The worse decision any game developer can do...

One thing about WG, they would rather die from a thousand cuts... HOWEVER, they're smart in not implementing SBMM in the game... As we all know, in WOWS, its easy to inflate or manipulate stats to reflect "skills."

This is by far the worst idea then Submarines... Power creep and snowball affects will continue to exist even if,  SBMM were implemented... Its distorted/imaginary benefits of SBMM will never outweigh the reality, the negative impact in the game.

 

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3 hours ago, Merc85 said:

The worst case scenario is that it does nothing at all BUT increase the wait times in queue while the MM tries to balance teams.

And the other scenario is that the skilled based MM works correctly which over time drives every single player to exactly a 50% win rate.....and then what happens?  Plus why then try to improve your skill if no matter what you do you will have a 50% win rate??

Fully agreed. 

Aditionally, you'll end up playing against more or less the same guys time after time given the hours and wr restraints (at least initially, before stats tend to equallize), very good and very bad players in particular would be very segregated.

As a new player part of the learning process is playing along good and experienced players. There's much to learn from a proper a$s whoping. Segregating players by skill would only stall learning and encroach bad tactics and habits.

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2 hours ago, CAPTAIN_JACK_HOLDEN said:

I didn't want to say I'm going to destroy you, but I'm going to destroy you, lol.

Don't worry, I'll be gentle, I'm not the A-hole type.

ATTENTION ANTI SKILL BASED MATCHMAKER CROWD: PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING.

The WHOLE point of a skill based matchmaker is to reduce the win rate of unicum players and increase the win rate of garbage players. By reducing that gap you reduce the amount blowout games. I know it sounds stupid. "Why would you want to decrease the win rate gap between good and bad players?" It's because it's the nature of how these statistics are going to have to work. (It's also how you know that the new matchmaker is working)

It also means 50%ish players are going to be even closer to 50%. But so will everyone else. The win rate window between bad and good players will still be there, it will just appear smaller. And even then, it won't be leaving anytime soon. I.E. good players will always influence matches for the better, and as long as that is true, there will always be a win rate gap between good and bad players. 

P.S. 

It would be a real shame if you had to wait 2 minutes to get into a game instead of just 1.

I really don't understand your logic.

Yes, you will be reducing WR gap for sure but you won't be reducing the skill gap which is the real factor here. By artificially equalizing WR around 50%, you gain nothing, the skill gap would still be there and would still be randomly distributed and steamrolls would still happen because you aren't solving anything. 

Players with huge number of matches will be doomed to remain on certain brackets because their recent performance becomes irrelevant.

The idea solves nothing and creates a lot of new issues

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