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Pumaster

Matchmaking is critically damaging our player base

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Hello, Captains.

I am an avid player of many Wargaming games. I have researched Tier X vehicles in (I believe) four different games. I believe I can say I have had an ample amount of experience (thousands of hours across games) to choose this hill to die on.

I have had to stop playing each of your other games because of matchmaking.

There is one single factor that I am calling out, and that is matching against vehicles two tiers above (or below) you. Only Wargaming does this.

I have never found another successful game in my 40-odd years of gaming that chose to match up people two tiers apart.

If another platform started matching Gold vs Diamond, or Silver vs Platinum, or Bronze vs Gold players, their games would never thrive.

Yes, there are a lot more tiers in this game, but that has been intelligently delineated because they are necessary. The technological differences in tiers have been quite well chosen.

Why then throw away all that hard work of balancing each tier if you are going to just give people impossible match-ups?

I am absolutely a fan of needing to punch up, of having an uphill battle, of being the underdog. But when I have absolutely no chance of doing anything whatsoever in a game, there is no reason to play that game.

**This game is a bit less punitive than any of your Tank games, but wholly cow what person in the world would load up that game and find themselves staring at a wall of red armor that they could never pierce, even from the rear much of the time, and say, "Hey this is fun!"?? I absolutely cannot stream any of these games because nobody would watch that.**

Why even do that to people?

Don't you realize you want to incentivize your players to continue playing, not unnecessarily punish them in far, far too many of their games?

Your games are positively beautiful. There are so many wonderful aspects to your games. But your decision to keep matching players two tiers apart is destroying your player base. I know almost as many people IRL as I have met in-game who have stopped playing your games entirely because of this singular issue.

 

Please, please, please reconsider your choice to do this across your platforms. I swear to goodness, the increase in players you would accrue would offset the need for more search time to find the correct opponents. Possibly even try implementing it during peak hours during the day, and turn it back to two-tier matching at low-population hours. But when there is a plethora of players, please for the love of goodness consider making it only a one-tier matchmaking difference. I swear I would be playing this and your other games a whole lot more. And I am 100% positive I am not alone on this.

 

Thank you for your amazing games.

  -Puma

Edited by Pumaster
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This game is much MUCH more fair about Tier differences than WoT will ever be.

I've never found myself in a situation where i'm unable to hurt higher tier ships with lower tier ones like i do in WoT.

Plus you get more XP for hitting higher tier ships which is what i love. Chase down the higher tier guy for juicy xp.

 

Edited by xalmgrey
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It is done specifically to create frustration. Said frustration is intended to encourage spending money and playing more matches in order to fail to Tier 10, which turns out to be a booby prize in itself. Quite clever from a business standpoint, actually.

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3 minutes ago, Pumaster said:

If another platform started matching Gold vs Diamond, or Silver vs Platinum, or Bronze vs Gold players, their games would never thrive.

You are confusing skill with equipment.

I don't have a problem with being uptiered 2 tiers. And the frequency is much reduced now as well. 

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Hookie I agree it's a clever way to milk money in the short-term, but eventually most of the whales will get bored and leave. I've seen that with countless games who sellout like that. These games actually have potential. They don't need to self-destruct for a little cash... (aka capitalism-death)

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Ducky you're quite right, my analogy is not a direct one-for-one, but it is still rather accurate.

I came to post this after having had this experience in multiple games just this morning alone. People ragequit at the start of each of these games. Other players raged all game. That type of agitation is unnecessary and damaging, both in that it will make people either log off or be wrathful to other players out of spite. Both are damaging to the game and the community.

 

Again, their Tank games are far, far worse than this with tier matchups. But being in a tier VIII vs tier X's is positively asinine. And since tier X only punch down they get that matchup constantly. The grind from VIII to X is a slap in the face with a dead fish with the two tier matchmaking.

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11 minutes ago, Pumaster said:

I am an avid player of many Wargaming games. I have researched Tier X vehicles in (I believe) four different games. I believe I can say I have had an ample amount of experience (thousands of hours across games) to choose this hill to die on.

Unless you play on other servers or under an alt in NA, you have only 1500-ish battles - which is nowhere near enough experience to choose this hill to die on and probably not enough experience to be at Tier 10 either. 

If you're already there, you rushed up the line to your detriment. 

What you really want is a guaranteed good team in every battle. That's what I think everyone who whines about MM as you are doing secretly wants.

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5 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

This game is much MUCH more fair about Tier differences than WoT will ever be.

I've never found myself in a situation where i'm unable to hurt higher tier ships with lower tier ones like i do in WoT.

Plus you get more XP for hitting higher tier ships which is what i love. Chase down the higher tier guy for juicy xp.

 

This. I never played tanks, but from what Players tell me, it's not a slice of heaven over there. Yet they get server priority because despite being a"terrible" game, too many players still pay money to play it.

Tier disparity is what allows a player to get enough XP to go next tier fast. If they were all the same, then the grind would take a lot longer.

In almost every game I played, the low tier player just attacks the high tier ship. When a low tier laments being uptiered, I often remind them of the XP boost they get attacking the high tier ship.

 

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Cthulhu:
I play WoT, WoT Blitz, WoWarplanes, and this. I have spent three times this amount of playtime in WoT:B. I do not claim this to be my best game in the slightest.

Since I have played a lot of FOUR different WG games with thousands of hours spent, I absolutely do still claim the right to stand on this hill.

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I see what you're saying about the XP argument, but I would rather be able to sway a battle towards a win than just land some ineffectual damage for some XPs. The difference between winning and losing XP rewards is far greater than hating life and getting bonus XPs from scratching the guy who slaughters you.

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Personally Ships doesn't have the population, especially at night for NA. Wait times would be excessively long at some points.

Compound the fact that for example; T8 ships cam destroy T10 ships. Sure, some ships are completely useless when low tier, but say a Martel Vs a Conqueror is hilarious. You can dodge and eat his 32m armor for days.

The matchmaking for Ships is def not as bad as tanks, which is why apart from premium ammo needs, made me quit tanks.

TLDR

MM is fine in ships.

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Very rarely does being up

20 minutes ago, Pumaster said:

Hello, Captains.

I am an avid player of many Wargaming games. I have researched Tier X vehicles in (I believe) four different games. I believe I can say I have had an ample amount of experience (thousands of hours across games) to choose this hill to die on.

I have had to stop playing each of your other games because of matchmaking.

There is one single factor that I am calling out, and that is matching against vehicles two tiers above (or below) you. Only Wargaming does this.

I have never found another successful game in my 40-odd years of gaming that chose to match up people two tiers apart.

If another platform started matching Gold vs Diamond, or Silver vs Platinum, or Bronze vs Gold players, their games would never thrive.

Yes, there are a lot more tiers in this game, but that has been intelligently delineated because they are necessary. The technological differences in tiers have been quite well chosen.

Why then throw away all that hard work of balancing each tier if you are going to just give people impossible match-ups?

I am absolutely a fan of needing to punch up, of having an uphill battle, of being the underdog. But when I have absolutely no chance of doing anything whatsoever in a game, there is no reason to play that game.

**This game is a bit less punitive than any of your Tank games, but wholly cow what person in the world would load up that game and find themselves staring at a wall of red armor that they could never pierce, even from the rear much of the time, and say, "Hey this is fun!"?? I absolutely cannot stream any of these games because nobody would watch that.**

Why even do that to people?

Don't you realize you want to incentivize your players to continue playing, not unnecessarily punish them in far, far too many of their games?

Your games are positively beautiful. There are so many wonderful aspects to your games. But your decision to keep matching players two tiers apart is destroying your player base. I know almost as many people IRL as I have met in-game who have stopped playing your games entirely because of this singular issue.

 

Please, please, please reconsider your choice to do this across your platforms. I swear to goodness, the increase in players you would accrue would offset the need for more search time to find the correct opponents. Possibly even try implementing it during peak hours during the day, and turn it back to two-tier matching at low-population hours. But when there is a plethora of players, please for the love of goodness consider making it only a one-tier matchmaking difference. I swear I would be playing this and your other games a whole lot more. And I am 100% positive I am not alone on this.

 

Thank you for your amazing games.

  -Puma

Very rarely has being uptiered by 2 stopped me from contributing to the team.   Your accusation that in this game you can not fight 2 tiers above you is complete bogus.  

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22 minutes ago, Pumaster said:

Hello, Captains.

I am an avid player of many Wargaming games. I have researched Tier X vehicles in (I believe) four different games. I believe I can say I have had an ample amount of experience (thousands of hours across games) to choose this hill to die on.

I have had to stop playing each of your other games because of matchmaking.

There is one single factor that I am calling out, and that is matching against vehicles two tiers above (or below) you. Only Wargaming does this.

I have never found another successful game in my 40-odd years of gaming that chose to match up people two tiers apart.

If another platform started matching Gold vs Diamond, or Silver vs Platinum, or Bronze vs Gold players, their games would never thrive.

Yes, there are a lot more tiers in this game, but that has been intelligently delineated because they are necessary. The technological differences in tiers have been quite well chosen.

Why then throw away all that hard work of balancing each tier if you are going to just give people impossible match-ups?

I am absolutely a fan of needing to punch up, of having an uphill battle, of being the underdog. But when I have absolutely no chance of doing anything whatsoever in a game, there is no reason to play that game.

**This game is a bit less punitive than any of your Tank games, but wholly cow what person in the world would load up that game and find themselves staring at a wall of red armor that they could never pierce, even from the rear much of the time, and say, "Hey this is fun!"?? I absolutely cannot stream any of these games because nobody would watch that.**

Why even do that to people?

Don't you realize you want to incentivize your players to continue playing, not unnecessarily punish them in far, far too many of their games?

Your games are positively beautiful. There are so many wonderful aspects to your games. But your decision to keep matching players two tiers apart is destroying your player base. I know almost as many people IRL as I have met in-game who have stopped playing your games entirely because of this singular issue.

 

Please, please, please reconsider your choice to do this across your platforms. I swear to goodness, the increase in players you would accrue would offset the need for more search time to find the correct opponents. Possibly even try implementing it during peak hours during the day, and turn it back to two-tier matching at low-population hours. But when there is a plethora of players, please for the love of goodness consider making it only a one-tier matchmaking difference. I swear I would be playing this and your other games a whole lot more. And I am 100% positive I am not alone on this.

 

Thank you for your amazing games.

  -Puma

Took them 5 years to put in a simple MM fix to keep people from being constantly bottom tiered...I'm doubting we'll ever see anything more....:Smile_trollface:

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Just now, Pumaster said:

I see what you're saying about the XP argument, but I would rather be able to sway a battle towards a win than just land some ineffectual damage for some XPs. The difference between winning and losing XP rewards is far greater than hating life and getting bonus XPs from scratching the guy who slaughters you.

Yeah but thats the thing, a well played T8 can in general handle T10s. Is it always the best circumstance... no but there are many players who can still perform well in bottom tier matchmaking.

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5 minutes ago, Pumaster said:

Cthulhu:
I play WoT, WoT Blitz, WoWarplanes, and this. I have spent three times this amount of playtime in WoT:B. I do not claim this to be my best game in the slightest.

Since I have played a lot of FOUR different WG games with thousands of hours spent, I absolutely do still claim the right to stand on this hill.

So playing other games with other mechanics somehow applies to WoWS because you played other WG titles?

This reasoning doesn't make any sense. The mechanics between these games are all different. Playing one doesn't give you any experience in the other.

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eviltane:

I wish I screenshot my last game. I got 3,500 xps as a CV that landed a single rocket barrage and did 5k damage total. I hardly even spotted. But my team won. All I did most of the game was type. The game was full of angry people about the matchup. And a couple guys goading people on and being jerks to the people who were upset.

Good times.

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34 minutes ago, Pumaster said:

Hello, Captains.

I am an avid player of many Wargaming games. I have researched Tier X vehicles in (I believe) four different games. I believe I can say I have had an ample amount of experience (thousands of hours across games) to choose this hill to die on.

I have had to stop playing each of your other games because of matchmaking.

There is one single factor that I am calling out, and that is matching against vehicles two tiers above (or below) you. Only Wargaming does this.

I have never found another successful game in my 40-odd years of gaming that chose to match up people two tiers apart.

If another platform started matching Gold vs Diamond, or Silver vs Platinum, or Bronze vs Gold players, their games would never thrive.

Yes, there are a lot more tiers in this game, but that has been intelligently delineated because they are necessary. The technological differences in tiers have been quite well chosen.

Why then throw away all that hard work of balancing each tier if you are going to just give people impossible match-ups?

I am absolutely a fan of needing to punch up, of having an uphill battle, of being the underdog. But when I have absolutely no chance of doing anything whatsoever in a game, there is no reason to play that game.

**This game is a bit less punitive than any of your Tank games, but wholly cow what person in the world would load up that game and find themselves staring at a wall of red armor that they could never pierce, even from the rear much of the time, and say, "Hey this is fun!"?? I absolutely cannot stream any of these games because nobody would watch that.**

Why even do that to people?

Don't you realize you want to incentivize your players to continue playing, not unnecessarily punish them in far, far too many of their games?

Your games are positively beautiful. There are so many wonderful aspects to your games. But your decision to keep matching players two tiers apart is destroying your player base. I know almost as many people IRL as I have met in-game who have stopped playing your games entirely because of this singular issue.

 

Please, please, please reconsider your choice to do this across your platforms. I swear to goodness, the increase in players you would accrue would offset the need for more search time to find the correct opponents. Possibly even try implementing it during peak hours during the day, and turn it back to two-tier matching at low-population hours. But when there is a plethora of players, please for the love of goodness consider making it only a one-tier matchmaking difference. I swear I would be playing this and your other games a whole lot more. And I am 100% positive I am not alone on this.

 

Thank you for your amazing games.

  -Puma

 

Not buying it.

I'm a multi-decade player myself.  Been gaming since before MicroProse was a thing.

It seems that the more WG eases the matchmaking, the more people come here whining about how unfair they think the matchmaker is.

The matchmaking is not a big deal in this game, especially to the degree you're dramatically making it up to be.  There are plenty of ships in this game that compete well agasint others two tier above them.  Figure it out.

When people come here blaming the MM for issues it's nearly always the person who's the issue, not the matchmaker.  Especially now.  And that's doubly so compared to WoT, a game that has always been far more punishing of lower-tiered vehicles in matches and mistakes made.  People just want things handed to them now, apparently even some "mature folk" who ought to know better.

Everyone is playing exactly the same game, dealing with the same tier spread as everyone else, yet many cope just fine and do better than others.  Wonder why that is...

 

 

 

 

 

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No gold Ammunition in warships need to damage higher tier ships. I would have a better time in a NC aginst a tier 10. Then a t32 against a tier10 tank.

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11 minutes ago, Pumaster said:

Cthulhu:
I play WoT, WoT Blitz, WoWarplanes, and this. I have spent three times this amount of playtime in WoT:B. I do not claim this to be my best game in the slightest.

Since I have played a lot of FOUR different WG games with thousands of hours spent, I absolutely do still claim the right to stand on this hill.

BUT- WoWS is NOT any of these other games... Having started in WOT's and having played WoWPs and WoWS's as well as another un-named WWII ship/tank/planes game... WoWS is, by far, the easiest to #1- grind and #2 play down-tiered.  #1 specifically seems to be helped by #2...  There is no reason a T5 cannot cause damage to a T7... even if it's spamming HE at them to create fires.  I will regularly have great games in my T5 Kamikaze R when it's a T7 fight.... however I have seen T5 tanks in WOT that, even with gold ammo, cannot pen a t7 heavy.  Does it suck to be down tiered?  Absolutely... but you get rewarded for it and you can still have good games being down-tiered.  

There have been a lot of us who feel like 1 tier separation MMing would be nice... but que times and match sizes would make waiting for games a pain... (I'm looking at you, unnamed WWII tanks/ships/planes game!) 

I have no problem taking a Tirpitz, PE, Benson, Oland, or whatever T8 into a T10 fight.... I very much cannot say that about WoT.  

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1 minute ago, xalmgrey said:

So playing other games with other mechanics somehow applies to WoWS because you played other WG titles?

This reasoning doesn't make any sense. The mechanics between these games are all different. Playing one doesn't give you any experience in the other.

WoWarships has the least of an issue with this.

I posted this here because after leaving two games of Tanks where I found this same problem, I ran into it's little brother here.

Only Wargaming does this two-tier matchmaking thing and it is absolutely hurting it's games.

 

Maybe Warships is the only case for keeping the two-tier system, because of the player base, but it still makes people stop playing.

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Two-tier matchmaking is a scapegoat, not a legitimate problem. 

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21 minutes ago, xalmgrey said:

This game is much MUCH more fair about Tier differences than WoT will ever be.

I've never found myself in a situation where i'm unable to hurt higher tier ships with lower tier ones like i do in WoT.

Plus you get more XP for hitting higher tier ships which is what i love. Chase down the higher tier guy for juicy xp.

 

This, a bottom tier medium tank has next to no chance to penetrate a top tier heavy or medium for that matter and the often said scout doesn't work when you are detected before the tanks you are trying to detect. Here and in WoWP pretty much any tier can hurt pretty much any higher tier.

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1 minute ago, DEWEY_96_ said:

BUT- WoWS is NOT any of these other games... Having started in WOT's and having played WoWPs and WoWS's as well as another un-named WWII ship/tank/planes game... WoWS is, by far, the easiest to #1- grind and #2 play down-tiered.  #1 specifically seems to be helped by #2...  There is no reason a T5 cannot cause damage to a T7... even if it's spamming HE at them to create fires.  I will regularly have great games in my T5 Kamikaze R when it's a T7 fight.... however I have seen T5 tanks in WOT that, even with gold ammo, cannot pen a t7 heavy.  Does it suck to be down tiered?  Absolutely... but you get rewarded for it and you can still have good games being down-tiered.  

There have been a lot of us who feel like 1 tier separation MMing would be nice... but que times and match sizes would make waiting for games a pain... (I'm looking at you, unnamed WWII tanks/ships/planes game!) 

I have no problem taking a Tirpitz, PE, Benson, Oland, or whatever T8 into a T10 fight.... I very much cannot say that about WoT.  

You're right, there absolutely are more options in Warships for Tier VIII vessels that can stand against Tier X.

That still isn't the case for many of the craft.

Whenever I'm in a Tier VIII CV against Tier Xs all I can do is scout. That's boring AF. Even dds can annihilate my planes before I can do damage much of the time. It's more worth my time to just leave the game and go play something else where I can do something. I absolutely empathized with the people who ragequit at the start of each of the games I played. That's not a good thing. That is absolutely damaging to a community. And I really do like these games. It's only matchmaking that's destroying their Tanks games (and Warplanes imo, that game is as bad as Tanks at tier matchups). Here less so but it's still a problem.

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1 minute ago, SkaerKrow said:

Two-tier matchmaking is a scapegoat, not a legitimate problem. 

This, the MM is not locked out of two or even single tier matches now so being the only bottom tier ship is not a factor any more except in queue dumps.

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2 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

Two-tier matchmaking is a scapegoat, not a legitimate problem. 

This is an odd take.

Have you actually played WoT or WoT:B or WoWarplanes?

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