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Captain_Slattery

Agir in co-op.

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Nice. 
It would appear you made some investment in the secondaries. To what extent, if any, did you build for them? 

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I'm very much considering this ship, but waiting for LWM's review in case there are any issues I don't know about yet. 

After the giant disappointment with Alaska (not a bad ship, but that's a lot of "meh" for 1 million 'F'XP...) I don't want to waste another million on a ship I'll end up barely playing outside of events and specific missions.  

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55 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I'm very much considering this ship, but waiting for LWM's review in case there are any issues I don't know about yet. 

After the giant disappointment with Alaska (not a bad ship, but that's a lot of "meh" for 1 million 'F'XP...) I don't want to waste another million on a ship I'll end up barely playing outside of events and specific missions.  

Got her and so far no regrets. Still learning how to best use and equip her. Using my Yorck/Tirpitz 19pt captain on her.

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6 hours ago, Captain_Slattery said:

1217728591_Agir1.thumb.jpg.eb78067d311255b93c8b348e1072bd91.jpg

 

Seems to work.  :cap_like:

Very nice game. Well done. :Smile_honoring:

3 hours ago, Admiral_Downes said:

Nice. 
It would appear you made some investment in the secondaries. To what extent, if any, did you build for them? 

I am not the OP but figured I would add my 2 cents in response to your question about Agir and secondary build.

I went all in on the secondary guns for Agir even though the range is abysmal (8km max w/ flag). I only play Co-op however and 8km range works in the mode. I don't plan on sniping with it so secondary build it was...

  • Capt: I use Lutjens from GK w/ BFT/AFT/MS
  • Ship: SBM1

I went w/ MBM3 in slot 6 vs AAM2 as it only buffs secondary reload and not range. Base reload is 3.6 sec for secondary guns on  Agir. AAM2 (-20% to sec reload) would get it to 2.9 (2.88). I didn't think that was good enough, even with the AA boost too, as MBM3 drops main gun reload from 20 sec to 17.6. If Agir had more secondary guns I might have gone w/ AAM2.

1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I'm very much considering this ship, but waiting for LWM's review in case there are any issues I don't know about yet. 

After the giant disappointment with Alaska (not a bad ship, but that's a lot of "meh" for 1 million 'F'XP...) I don't want to waste another million on a ship I'll end up barely playing outside of events and specific missions.  

I don't get the fascination so many have with LWM? I seldom agree with her and in general I prefer to form my own opinions vs letting others do it for me (don't mean you KilljoyCutter but WAY too many WOWS players hang on her words like they are holy and will only buy or pass based on her opinion and I just don't get it??? :Smile_amazed:).

You have enough game play experience to look at a ship's stats and watch some WIP videos and know if a ship will fit your playstyle or not. You don't need LWM to tell you that. What could she possibly tell you about Agir you can't see in the stats or by simply watching a few CC's play it on Youtube?

I am surprised you think Alaska is meh. I find it borderline OP and I honestly think OP is way overused in this game. All comes down to playstyle though and what you like and dislike which is why people need to stop letting LWM, Flamu, Flambass, etc... tell them what is good and isn't. Use your eyes and brains and you can make up your own mind people. :cap_like:

What about Alaska do you find meh? Seriously I am curious. The ship is a BEAST. Of all T9 Cruisers, and I have them all except Siegfried, it is far and away the highest for me in avg damage p/ game edging out Agir (only other one in 90K+ range but just 4 games so will most likely drop a lot over time) and it is 2nd highest for highest damage game. I have run down and killed Yamato's with it as it can bounce even those 460MM shells if angled properly. 

Is it the slow reload or slow flight time of the shells? No torps? Just curious why you dislike it. No judgment either just would like to know. As I said we all have different playstyles so it's fine you dislike it but for me calling it meh is like HUH??? LOL :Smile_amazed::Smile_veryhappy:

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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1 minute ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I don't get the fascination so many have with LWM? I seldom agree with her and in general I prefer to form my own opinions vs letting others do it for me (don't mean you KilljoyCutter but WAY too many WOWS players hang on her words like they are holy and will only buy or pass based on her opinion and I just don't get it??? :Smile_amazed:).

You have enough game play experience to look at a ship's stats and watch some WIP videos and know if a ship will fit your playstyle or not. You don't need LWM to tell you that. What could she possibly tell you about Agir you can't see in the stats or by simply watching a few CC's play it on Youtube?

I am surprised you think Alaska is meh. I find it borderline OP and I honestly think OP is way overused in this game. All comes down to playstyle though and what you like and dislike which is why people need to stop letting LWM, Flamu, Flambass, etc... tell them what is good and isn't. Use your eyes and brains and you can make up your own mind.

It's not the conclusions I'm looking for, I don't need to be told that a ship is good or bad -- it's the information and a different viewpoint than my own seeing things I might miss.   I spent accumulated dubs on Prinz Eugen and Wichita even though she didn't rate them as great ships, for example.  

My reactions to most video reviews range from "this information could have been presented in 1/10th the time if you weren't a rambling doof talking over a video" to "stop stroking your own epeen, you useless git".  

LWM's reviews contain actual data, actual facts, and actual gameplay experience, without wasting 30 or 60 minutes of my life per video on a bunch of reviews that might contain very little.  I don't count on her to tell me what to do, I count on her to be honest and informative.  

 

2 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I am surprised you think Alaska is meh. I find it borderline OP and I honestly think OP is way overused in this game. All comes down to playstyle though and what you like and dislike which is why people need to stop letting LWM, Flamu, Flambass, etc... tell them what is good and isn't. Use your eyes and brains and you can make up your own mind.

My opinion on Alaska would be a good example of where I don't agree with the common "expert" opinion, I think.  

 

2 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

What about Alaska do you find meh? Seriously I am curious. The ship is a BEAST. Of all T9 Cruisers, and I have them all except Siegfried, it is far and away the highest for me in avg damage p/ game edging out Agir (only other one in 90K+ range but just 4 games so will most likely drop a lot over time) and it is 2nd highest for highest damage game. I have run down and killed Yamato's with it as it can bounce even those 460MM shells if angled properly. 

Is it the slow reload or slow flight time of the shells? No torps? Just curious why you dislike it. No judgment either just would like to know. As I said we all have different playstyles so it's fine you dislike it but for me calling it meh is like HUH??? LOL :Smile_amazed::Smile_veryhappy:

It feels like a ship that's trying to be a cruiser and trying to be a battleship, while succeeding at neither.  

Compare to several German ships I adore.  Or just Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Hindenburg, specifically. 

They feel like ships that blur the line in a way that works.   That score I posted from Scharnhorst recently in the co-op battles thread involved attacking an Izumo and a KGV at the same time using the ship like the world's meanest cruiser -- the combination of guns, torpedoes, and armor means it can function as a cruiser when bullying battleships, and as a battleship when bullying cruisers.   

Regardless of what the armor profiles say, Hindenburg feels FAR tougher than Alaska.   

When I play Alaska, it too often seems like when I need it to cruiser, it battleships, and when I need it to battleship, it cruisers. 

 

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4 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

It's not the conclusions I'm looking for, I don't need to be told that a ship is good or bad -- it's the information and a different viewpoint than my own seeing things I might miss.   I spent accumulated dubs on Prinz Eugen and Wichita even though she didn't rate them as great ships, for example.  

My reactions to most video reviews range from "this information could have been presented in 1/10th the time if you weren't a rambling doof talking over a video" to "stop stroking your own epeen, you useless git".  

LWM's reviews contain actual data, actual facts, and actual gameplay experience, without wasting 30 or 60 minutes of my life per video on a bunch of reviews that might contain very little.  I don't count on her to tell me what to do, I count on her to be honest and informative.  

 

My opinion on Alaska would be a good example of where I don't agree with the common "expert" opinion, I think.  

 

It feels like a ship that's trying to be a cruiser and trying to be a battleship, while succeeding at neither.  

Compare to several German ships I adore.  Or just Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Hindenburg, specifically. 

They feel like ships that blur the line in a way that works.   That score I posted from Scharnhorst recently in the co-op battles thread involved attacking an Izumo and a KGV at the same time using the ship like the world's meanest cruiser -- the combination of guns, torpedoes, and armor means it can function as a cruiser when bullying battleships, and as a battleship when bullying cruisers.   

Regardless of what the armor profiles say, Hindenburg feels FAR tougher than Alaska.   

When I play Alaska, it too often seems like when I need it to cruiser, it battleships, and when I need it to battleship, it cruisers. 

 

:cap_like:

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Since I can't speak for everyone, or anyone but myself, but I do like LWM reviews.  She presents them in a coherent, consistent way, and I admit I like the Graphs she includes.  Sometimes they makes getting an overview of the ships it will compete with easier to understand.  Having said that, she is just one of the resources I use when making such determinations.  She does gives me an alternative to the Wiki for capt. builds, but again she is only one source, but one I find useful. 

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3 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I am not the OP but figured I would add my 2 cents in response to your question about Agir and secondary build.

Thanks anyway. The first week after release, I had Agir set up for full secondaries and never got over 40 secondaries and meager damage from them.
I don't have Lutjens though, that may be the difference maker.

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34 minutes ago, Admiral_Downes said:

Thanks anyway. The first week after release, I had Agir set up for full secondaries and never got over 40 secondaries and meager damage from them.
I don't have Lutjens though, that may be the difference maker.

I have only played 4 games in the ship so far. As a result it is a small sample. Best game (only one I kept info for) it was 61 hits for 14,400 damage from secondary guns in a 5:23 min game. You need to get 100 sec hits for Lütjens to come into play ( they fire faster).

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6 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I'm very much considering this ship, but waiting for LWM's review in case there are any issues I don't know about yet. 

After the giant disappointment with Alaska (not a bad ship, but that's a lot of "meh" for 1 million 'F'XP...) I don't want to waste another million on a ship I'll end up barely playing outside of events and specific missions.  

Alaska is a PVP oriented ship.  There is no pressing Brawling Meta in High Tier PVP like there is in Co-op where it's a Brawl 90% of the time.  Alaska's ability to take punishment, have Radar, and still have great gunnery, that's where her claim to fame is at.

 

She's still great in PVE but personally, I like to get close for PVE.  She's good but Agir is better for that reality in PVE.  Agir has GK style high pen secondaries but without the GK range.  They fire a lot faster than Alaska secondaries.  She has torpedoes to dump in more damage whereas AK doesn't have that weapon system.

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22 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Alaska is a PVP oriented ship.  There is no pressing Brawling Meta in High Tier PVP like there is in Co-op where it's a Brawl 90% of the time.  Alaska's ability to take punishment, have Radar, and still have great gunnery, that's where her claim to fame is at.

 

She's still great in PVE but personally, I like to get close for PVE.  She's good but Agir is better for that reality in PVE.  Agir has GK style high pen secondaries but without the GK range.  They fire a lot faster than Alaska secondaries.  She has torpedoes to dump in more damage whereas AK doesn't have that weapon system.

I asked Miss Maus about it in another thread (I forgot which one, lol), and even she said Agir is indeed better than Alaska for Coop. Her turtle back armor, strong Secondaries (albeit short ranged), and the torpedoes makes her more suited for close encounters, as you said.

Personally, I can't make any judgment on Alaska vs. Agir, because I don't have Alaska, but I do really like Agir.

Miss Maus also recommended me a meme Secondary build (lel), but I instead opted to plan for a Double-Rudder and Double-Traverse, with Survivability (anti fire) on the side. Agir's armor is good, but I personally don't think that it's that good to do a stand-up brawl with her Secondaries, like the German BB's can. Still, I think a drive-by torpedoes is good. Plus, her Secondaries are bit too short ranged for my taste at her tier, so I just dropped the idea... lul. :Smile_hiding:

That being said, her armor seems to work wonderfully when angled correctly, so I like how having the double rudder really helps in that regard. If feels like she can almost turn on a dime (very snappy, I should say, lal), and that actually saved my bacon few times, when some bots took pot shots at me from a far.

That's just me though... lol. :Smile_hiding:

Edited by Blorgh2017

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42 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

I asked Miss Maus about it in another thread (I forgot which one, lol), and even she said Agir is indeed better than Alaska for Coop. Her turtle back armor, strong Secondaries (albeit short ranged), and the torpedoes makes her more suited for close encounters, as you said.

Personally, I can't make any judgment on Alaska vs. Agir, because I don't have Alaska, but I do really like Agir.

Miss Maus also recommended me a meme Secondary build (lel), but I instead opted to plan for a Double-Rudder and Double-Traverse, with Survivability (anti fire) on the side. Agir's armor is good, but I personally don't think that it's that good to do a stand-up brawl with her Secondaries, like the German BB's can. Still, I think a drive-by torpedoes is good. Plus, her Secondaries are bit too short ranged for my taste at her tier, so I just dropped the idea... lul. :Smile_hiding:

That being said, her armor seems to work wonderfully when angled correctly, so I like how having the double rudder really helps in that regard. If feels like she can almost turn on a dime (very snappy, I should say, lal), and that actually saved my bacon few times, when some bots took pot shots at me from a far.

That's just me though... lol. :Smile_hiding:

My Leutjens captain specced for IFHE Manual Secondaries Build on GK goes between that ship, Tirpitz, and now Agir.

 

I'd like to get Siegfried also but that will require some work because of the RB.

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I saw a Ludendorf in COOP today. Driver had NDA attached to it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Anyone pick up more experience, negative or positive, on Agir?

 

It is a decent ship but nothing special. As Capt in the OP showed it can do really well but that isn't going to be the norm IMO.

The nerf to the secondary range really killed it. IF they had left that alone it would be a lot better. 8km max right now with full build + flag. One big thing is don't think this is like a KM BB armor wise "cause it taint!". It is very easy to citadel it if you can get the side.

So getting in close to torp or for those secondary guns to work is risky PLUS  the secondary placement is not optimal for a KM brawler with torps ( you can get more of them firing kiting than charging). Agir wants to be a brawler but doesn't have the armor for it as a Large Cruiser.

I like it don't get me wrong. The guns seem to behave better and do more damage than Odin even though they are exact same guns. But Odin has that protected citadel Agir doesn't and it's secondary guns have good range and are setup better for charging ahead which favors a brawler.

I think I might actually prefer Odin. Too early to tell.

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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2 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Anyone pick up more experience, negative or positive, on Agir?

 

I can get good numbers in Agir so far, highest Dmg Avg of all my Tier IX Cruisers / Super Cruisers there.  I play my ships very aggressively.

 

At range when I'm closing against a BB is where I have to be sure of my angling or bow on charges if feasible.

27mm bow means I can bow on charge ships with 381mm or smaller AP, anything else, doing that is going to result in lots of damage via the bow.

Against 406mm+ armed threats, I have to charge at an angled approach.  It gets tricky because Agir has a really big bow "snout."

Against 406mm+:

Charge too sharp an angle and you give too much of a bow to get Overmatched.

NsL5J8p.jpg

So you need to angle out a bit, and let shells land on the lower or upper armor belt on the sides of the ship.  But there's still a big enough bow to shoot at, i.e. just front of the forward most turret.  Knowing bots, they like to go for center mass, waterline shots.  Most shots will land at the armored belt but some may still pen at the "base" of the bow just below the forward turret.

oRvwxtM.jpg

But you have to be careful in how much you angle out to invite the bots to shoot at the belt armor... If you angle out too much then you won't bounce the shells, and then it becomes a game of regular Penetration against armor thickness.  The lower armor belt will hold but the upper armor belt will cause Penetration damage if BB shells hit at non-bounce angles.

 

Once I can get into Secondaries & Torpedo range, she's a beast and all my concerns about defense no longer matter.  Once I'm in torpedo range, I can show a flat side and I don't mind a few Pen hits or Overpens.  I will not get Citadeled anymore in this situation.  Secondaries are roaring, torpedoes launching, and with MBM3 her guns reload in 17.6 seconds.  Once she's in knife fighting range her weapons suite is fantastic.

 

But I know you prize survival capability above all else, and in this case, I'd say "Pass" on Agir for you.  For PVE, Odin IMO will be up your alley as she has:
+ TRUE German Battleship Protection, to include the 32mm bow (Agir / Siegfried have 27mm) that only Yamato-class can Overmatch.

+ TRUE High Tier German BB Long Range Secondaries;  11.1km secondaries range in Secondary Spec without the signal flags.

+ You have the 128mm GK Secondaries that are shared by Gneisenau, Agir, Siegfried.

+ You got torpedoes, unlike Bismarck.

+ You got Hydro, unlike Tirpitz.  Very useful still even in Co-op to charge with the peace of mind of Hydro being up against torpedo armed threats.

 

For a PVP ship I'd place Agir as a better choice... Spec for Main Battery (ASM1 + MBM3) and Survival - Stealth Build, play at range most the time, and you'd be better at this than Odin.

But we're here in the PVE Subforum... And you know full well that Co-op is a brawl most of the time.  In this case, Odin is better.  True BB Armor, German Mega Secondaries range, High Pen GK Secondaries, Graf Spee style torpedo layout.  You can gleefully charge the same way you would as a German BB, knowing your protection scheme will hold up against almost everything.

 

Odin may not have the HP levels of Bismarck-class, but she's still built like a German BB Brick.

V3ZL0u8.jpgXfuuWe1.jpg

 

I still like Agir, but as AdmiralThunder said, the nerf to her secondaries late in her development hurts her bad.  It deprives her of identity in PVE and something to truly call her own.  I'm not fond that WG let Siegfried get not only improved gunnery for her larger 380mm guns, but retained long range secondaries while Agir's was cut back drastically.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Thanks to both.  

 

The other thing I prize is the "utility knife" capability of certain ships, the ability to adapt to the situation that presents itself, rather than having to force a particular strength.  

This is why I prefer so many German ships over so many Russian ships, and why my captain builds are often hybrid rather than maximized.  

 

Wish we knew what was in the pipeline for 'F'XP, it's not like anything else out right now has any appeal (have Alaska and Friesland and more than enough to get Agir if I decided to).  

 

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On 6/18/2020 at 11:08 AM, AdmiralThunder said:

I don't get the fascination so many have with LWM?

because she alone probably has more intelligence than the entirety of WG combined and it shows

Edited by tcbaker777
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20 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Anyone pick up more experience, negative or positive, on Agir?

 

Seigfried is more fun imo since it's the only supercruiser to have a more proper battleship caliber guns with some wicked accuracy to boot.

Agir is rather a bit bland due to the existence of many more super cruisers with roughly the same caliber guns. Don't get me wrong, she is still a good ship, but it's similar to the situation of Azuma and Yoshino in how they play out.

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1 minute ago, Vader_Sama said:

Seigfried is more fun imo since it's the only supercruiser to have a more proper battleship caliber guns with some wicked accuracy to boot.

Agir is rather a bit bland due to the existence of many more super cruisers with roughly the same caliber guns. Don't get me wrong, she is still a good ship, but it's similar to the situation of Azuma and Yoshino in how they play out.

I don't have Yoshino or Azuma, just Alaska. 

 

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2 hours ago, Vader_Sama said:

Seigfried is more fun imo since it's the only supercruiser to have a more proper battleship caliber guns with some wicked accuracy to boot.

Agir is rather a bit bland due to the existence of many more super cruisers with roughly the same caliber guns. Don't get me wrong, she is still a good ship, but it's similar to the situation of Azuma and Yoshino in how they play out.

Unfortunately WG decided to put that one in RB which is a huge NOPE from me.

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6 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Unfortunately WG decided to put that one in RB which is a huge NOPE from me.

Same here. 

So for the three new German ships right now, my choices are Odin, Agir, Odin and Agir, or none. 

 

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34 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Same here. 

So for the three new German ships right now, my choices are Odin, Agir, Odin and Agir, or none. 

 

:Smile_veryhappy:

Hopefully the new T9 BB Ludendorff that is coming wont be RB or Steel.

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