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Shrayes_Bhagavatula

How to Shchors?

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What is this, three posts in two days!?

Never mind that. I recently acquired the Shchors, the Tier VII Soviet cruiser, in order to grind out the Chapayev for the upcoming Tier VIII Ranked season ( because lol 12km radar ). However, I am having a bit of difficulty playing this ship as I played the Budyonny, because it's bigger, clumsier, and more detectable, and more prone to exploding suddenly and horribly. 

If anyone could give some pointers on how to play this ship, that would be very much appreciated.

:SerB: 

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Don't show broadside. 

Don't be the tip of the spear. 

Don't be near the head of the spear. 

Try to look as unimportant as you possibly can. 

Expect to be deleted with extreme violence from almost any range and angle. 

May neptune have mercy on your hull and let the grind be quick. 

Edited by RedSeaBear
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15 minutes ago, RedSeaBear said:

Don't show broadside. 

Don't be the tip of the spear. 

Don't be near the head of the spear. 

Try to look as unimportant as you possibly can. 

Expect to be deleted with extreme violence from almost any range and angle. 

My neptune have mercy on your hull and let the grind be quick. 

...in other words, very very carefully.

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Also:

  • Engage targets near max range.
  • Vary speed and direction when dodging incoming shells -- always watch for incoming shells so you an steer and change speed accordingly.
  • Don't be afraid to disengage (go dark) when getting focused by multiple BBs or by a closer in BB.

In other words, you are primarily a "kiting ship" which must actively dodge shells to avoid getting deleted.  Your effectiveness will almost always increase the longer you survive (due to less opposing ships targeting you).

Typical engagement cycle:

  1. Spam HE, set multiple fires, wait for use of damage control.
  2. Set more fires, go dark if needed, or finish off with direct fire.

The AP can be very effective if able to ambush other ships (even battle ships) at mid to close range; however you won't always pen main armor belt depending on range and the target.  Best to checkout AP pen capability in Training room against multiple types of CA/CLs and BBs.

UPDATE:  After checking out the pen capability on a fairly good sample of BBs (Tiers V thru VIII), I don't think the Shchors' AP rounds can penetrate any BB main armor belt (at least I couldn't get any citadels firing at the main armor belt); However, it was possible to get an occasional citadel on a few of the Tier V BBs when attacking from their front or rear flank at close range -- best not to expect citadels on BBs though! 

When shooting AP at a broadside BB above the armor belt from a few kilometers out, the results can vary, but was getting upwards of 10K+ damage per salvo at times.

Good luck!

Edited by ObnoxiousPotato
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3 minutes ago, theLaalaa said:

...in other words, very very carefully.

I did not enjoy my time playing the Shchors. It was a time of suffering the Sinksalot Fleet will not soon forget. 

Everyone knows about the "Obligatory Exploding Nurnberg" but Shchors is just as bad. I suspect the Nurnberg and the Shchors got their armor from the same supplier that provided the steel for the Omaha/Murmansk/Marblehead. 

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Play her at range. HE people across half the map. WASD a lot. Make sure your target is busy with someone else, use your teammates as distraction.

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download.jpg.bd8d4611e85345851542bb0b30314c57.jpg

Lots of this.

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Russian Cruisers in general are "Range or Die" Cruisers.

- As a line, they have the worst Cruiser Concealment in the game.  German and Italians are pretty bad, but they're not Russian Cruiser Bad.

- Questionable armor and Citadel protection.  Don't let forum whines about Moskva, Stalingrad paint a picture that Russian Cruisers are well protected.  Stuff like Moskva are the exception and the majority of them are pretty easy to delete.

- They're rather large and it gets worse the higher you get in the tiers.

- They have very pronounced Citadels.

- They have poor agility as a Cruiser.  Their speed is decent but they have poor Rudder Shift and Turning Circle Radius.

- This isn't for the type of aggressive, forward sailing Cruiser player.  They react poorly to unforeseen threats in closer ranges, and are very easy to punish.

 

Keep them at range where it's harder for people Battleships to reliably hit you.  It's not Cruisers that are your problem, it's BBs landing catastrophic AP salvos into you.  Stay at range, make it harder for them, and don't sail straight too long... That makes you predictable and easier for a BB to hit you.

Keep at range and fire away.  The RU 152mm CL gun are IMO some of the best CL guns in the game.  They have fantastic shell flight characteristics and the shells are effective.  Schors has 12 of these.  Keep at range, stay alive, and fire and fire away.

 

Maintain that above mindset and it also easily translates into the Tier VIII-IX games.  Schors uptiers into nasty Tier IX games really well, IMO, because High Tier Combat = Long Range Combat.

VII Myoko is a fantastic Tier VII Cruiser, but when she's in a Tier IX game with a max gun range of 15.5km, that's not good.  You don't want to be within 15.5km of Musashi, Jean Bart, Alsace, Missouri / Iowa, Sovetsky Soyuz.

VII Schors with her 16.7km gun range + Spotting Aircraft access and Russian Cruiser shell flight characteristics is a lot better for the reality when doing bottom tier combat.

 

The moment you try to get cute and think you're some Cruiser that can effectively snoop and poop in front of the team and into some islands, that's when you get rekt.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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You grind it in Narai with a team and signals and camos.

 

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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5 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

You grind it in Narai with a team and signals and camos.

That doesn't help him in learning to play the ship, most especially since the OP primarily does Randoms.

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Spec into IFHE and play at range.

You will be targeted but the idea is every volley the enemy sends, dodge and pray to RNG Gods.  A volley on you is a wasted volley.  It helps keep your team alive and possibly win the game.

Edited by HeadSplit120

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2 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

What is this, three posts in two days!?

Never mind that. I recently acquired the Shchors, the Tier VII Soviet cruiser, in order to grind out the Chapayev for the upcoming Tier VIII Ranked season ( because lol 12km radar ). However, I am having a bit of difficulty playing this ship as I played the Budyonny, because it's bigger, clumsier, and more detectable, and more prone to exploding suddenly and horribly. 

If anyone could give some pointers on how to play this ship, that would be very much appreciated.

:SerB: 

Just hang well back, behind your teammates, and keep your nearest target at close to your guns maximum range.  Then fire away.  Never go up the middle or otherwise expose yourself to fire from multiple directions.

Shchors is at her best when at max range.  The guns are quite overpowered for a Tier VII cruiser.  Use them.

Shchors is also a good open water ship - I use mine in the open water nearly all the time.  Just learn how to kite, when to anticipate and dodge incoming fire, and - this is extremely important - position yourself so that a minimum number of opposing ships can fire back at you.  This goes back to that "don't go up the middle" point made earlier - go around the map, not through it.

Battleships are your primary targets, though DDs should be shot at the instant they are spotted.  Shchors is very good (too good, really) at maintaining fires on battleships.

Also, as mentioned by others, IFHE works well for this ship since your volume and rate of fire mitigates the fire deficiency of IFHE.  It's even better in conjunction with the captain skill that increases fire chance, I forget the name of it.

 

 

 

Edited by Kuckoo

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hey saw you in match with the shchors today. pretty what everyone else has said but some extra words of advice. don't try and get all guns firing especially c turret, just make due with the two turrets you have until the enemy has fired and you will be safe from return fire and even then time your manuveres well because the shchors does not turn well. Also, I personally wouldn't spec into IFHE, you lose all of your effectiveness against tier 8 + bbs. Spec demo expert and burn people to the ground (and from chat it sounded like you had)  

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Shchors is a difficult ship to play, paper-thin armour very squishy etc. However, when grinding though the line I found the most success with open water gun boating and using islands when possible. Often people will forget the W and S in WASD hax and in this game it's rather difficult to judge speed unless you have torpedoes. Sitting broadside at full speed then turning away and slowing to 1/4 would often result in missed salvo's. When I could use an island for protection I took it but didn't hug them. Overall I just sort of played the style of max range damage farming with HE and WASDing the hell out of everyone.

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2 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

What is this, three posts in two days!?

Never mind that. I recently acquired the Shchors, the Tier VII Soviet cruiser, in order to grind out the Chapayev for the upcoming Tier VIII Ranked season ( because lol 12km radar ). However, I am having a bit of difficulty playing this ship as I played the Budyonny, because it's bigger, clumsier, and more detectable, and more prone to exploding suddenly and horribly. 

If anyone could give some pointers on how to play this ship, that would be very much appreciated.

:SerB: 

If other players don't know they quickly learn Shchors is seen as a easy kill, expected to be targeted as soon as you are in range.

Protecting your broadside is, in theory, a good tactic. But in reality, you will expose your broadside several times in a random. Taking a chance exposing your broadside is better than trying to eat several torpedoes. Russian cruisers are not known for their nimbleness, in fact they are known to be sluggish.

I run ops with the Discord group Hoperations. Narai is ran often. IMO ops are the best training grounds for randoms. 7 man divisions are a great way to grind your T6 & T7 ships.  This reduced the grind time of my Shchors.

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That doesn't help him in learning to play the ship, most especially since the OP primarily does Randoms.

Actually it teaches him exactly what his ship can do before he even does a random with it, not only that, he expressed that he wants to grind past it. Don't underestimate the learning experience of Operations. Lot's of good players do it.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That doesn't help him in learning to play the ship, most especially since the OP primarily does Randoms.

It  gets him into the Chapaev quicker/easier. IFHE nerfs made the lower tier light cruisers a unappetizing prospect. 

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1 hour ago, cheekywarship2018 said:

hey saw you in match with the shchors today. pretty what everyone else has said but some extra words of advice. don't try and get all guns firing especially c turret, just make due with the two turrets you have until the enemy has fired and you will be safe from return fire and even then time your manuveres well because the shchors does not turn well. Also, I personally wouldn't spec into IFHE, you lose all of your effectiveness against tier 8 + bbs. Spec demo expert and burn people to the ground (and from chat it sounded like you had)  

Ehh, not really that last part. ( Was it the match where I said I would get me that Bretagne booty? Or was it somewhere else? )

I don't have DE just yet, and I don't have the captain build as well, since it was originally on my Izmail ( and I needed EM because of the horrid turret traverse on that ship, as amazing as it is ). I'll be grinding out EXCP on my 19-point Kurfurst captain ( the only 19 pointer I have ) and use that to respec the commander.

That being said, though, I am consistently setting 10 or more fires in a single game, and that's without DE or either of the flags, not to mention having at least 35 or 40% of my damage per game so far coming from fires.

As for the rest, thank you all for the great advice. I'll factor that into my playstyle as I grind out this ship.

:SerB:

P.S. You can expect an edition of Ship Opinions on both the Budyonny and the Shchors coming soon.

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I really dug Shchors when I played through it originally.  I only had a 12-13 point captain so I chose CE instead of IFHE as my 4-point skill, worked out pretty good having DE.  When I got Chapayev I moved the captain up and quickly got him to 14 points to add IFHE.

I moved a lower captain into Shchors and worked to grind and grind him up to 14 points so I could take IFHE.  Got to 14 right as WG implemented the IFHE/CL nerf.  I only played a few games in Shchors after that, but in my opinion she really felt the nerf bat badly.  I flipped my new 14-point commander into D. Donskoi.  Now I just have a 6-point captain in Shchors to grind up to Tallinn.  I will probably do it entirely in co-op.  I am sad that one of my favorite ships is no longer one of my favorites.

But as everyone says, stay at range, use HE mostly, and try not to be the one who gets shot at.

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There's only really two ways of playing the mid/late game Russian cruisers.

1) Stay at range and wasd like mad if someone fires at you.

2) Once you have to commit, try to ambush someone from their blindside and smash them with close range penetrations before you inevitably get deleted.

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I tend to play RU cruiser line as a strike cruiser. That means stay hidden close to max range of your gun (+/- 2km). Wait for a cruiser or battleship to show you his sides and then fire an AP volley right at the waterline or slightly above. At the same time make sure you fire just as you're 50% through a turn, so by the time red team sees you, you are already kiting away and is a small target far away (and not really interesting to shoot at). You can use HE instead you like, but AP tend to yield better returns (once you learn and perfect the maneuver). I only hit them a few times in a match (10-20 or so) but when I hit it hurts.

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Hi 

I found the Scholars one the most fun ships 

I just used it as a range fire starter while trying not to be the focus of attention.

I ran it with PT / AR / DE / CE   - doesn't need SI or IFHE

Keep as much distance as possible , Kite away or go Dark when focused  and wait for red to be preoccupied on another target ( or at least the guns are not pointing in your general direction ) then go for it.

Often the Scholars did not seem to be seen as a threat ship , so with careful play you can fight for a long time 

But this all sadly changed when I got the Chappy - suddenly went from being ignored to Priority Target. So you have to play even very carefully and I ran double rudder on it , so I could at least dodge

Then it got better at the Donskoi - good range ( used CFCS2 )  with a heal  plus used Prop mod  for speed hack ( with SG2 ) 

Hope it helps 

I play mostly on asia server - where Bots rule !

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8 hours ago, GandalfTehGray said:

It  gets him into the Chapaev quicker/easier. IFHE nerfs made the lower tier light cruisers a unappetizing prospect. 

And it still wouldn't teach him anything about Russian Cruisers.  OP said he also struggled with Tier VI Budyonny.

It only gets tougher later on in the tiers.

 

IMO Budyonny and Schors were super easy part of the RU Cruiser Line.  The ride gets rougher past that.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

And it still wouldn't teach him anything about Russian Cruisers.  OP said he also struggled with Tier VI Budyonny.

It only gets tougher later on in the tiers.

 

IMO Budyonny and Schors were super easy part of the RU Cruiser Line.  The ride gets rougher past that.

I didn't interpret his post as saying he struggled in the Budyonny, he said he was struggling in the Schors compared to the Budy. 

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13 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Ehh, not really that last part. ( Was it the match where I said I would get me that Bretagne booty? Or was it somewhere else? )

I don't have DE just yet, and I don't have the captain build as well, since it was originally on my Izmail ( and I needed EM because of the horrid turret traverse on that ship, as amazing as it is ). I'll be grinding out EXCP on my 19-point Kurfurst captain ( the only 19 pointer I have ) and use that to respec the commander.

That being said, though, I am consistently setting 10 or more fires in a single game, and that's without DE or either of the flags, not to mention having at least 35 or 40% of my damage per game so far coming from fires.

As for the rest, thank you all for the great advice. I'll factor that into my playstyle as I grind out this ship.

:SerB:

P.S. You can expect an edition of Ship Opinions on both the Budyonny and the Shchors coming soon.

It was that game, and good luck with the grind, once you get the hang shchors, it will be one of the most pleasant tier 7 cruiser grinds you've ever had 

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