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Glamorboy

Make secondaries awesome!

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What BB driver doesn't love having all this secondaries blazing away?  

12km secondaries on ALL BB's should be standard (or more if you captain/module spec that way). 

Balance it by making them hit less (I'm not suggesting BB's need to be more powerful).

From the Monty to the Conq, and obviously make the GKF the best, I just want to see these guns hammering away.  

WG, make it so!

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I will admit the secondary BBs are my favourites to play; but as BBs sit at the top for quite a few stats I believe positive changes to other ships would be better for the game. To increase the possible range and therefore damage of a ship that is already top of all the ship types for damage - it just wouldn't be good for the game.

Unless, as you state, that an increase in damage for secondaries would be balanced with something else, such as lesser torpedo belt protection, or a reversal to the flooding nerf (so that although you do more secondary damage, you'd die a little quicker so it levels out). You could reduce main gun damage I guess?

 

I used to think the speed was an issue with BBs but now torpedoes are easily dodged unless launched point blank, so that suggestion doesn't make sense any more except for certain cases IMO.

Maybe with all the fire spammers, a greater protection from fire for those that choose these Captain skills? But again, the BB survival is pretty good lol.

 

You have to think of the knock on affect. :Smile_honoring:

Edited by _WaveRider_

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40 minutes ago, Glamorboy said:

What BB driver doesn't love having all this secondaries blazing away?  

12km secondaries on ALL BB's should be standard (or more if you captain/module spec that way). 

Balance it by making them hit less (I'm not suggesting BB's need to be more powerful).

From the Monty to the Conq, and obviously make the GKF the best, I just want to see these guns hammering away.  

WG, make it so!

:cap_popcorn:

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51 minutes ago, Glamorboy said:

Balance it by making them hit less (I'm not suggesting BB's need to be more powerful).

Again, not trying to increase the power or upset the balance of BB's.

I am suggesting you keep the average damage of secondaries the same by reducing the hit % of guns, but increase the range dramatically.

So if at 5km, a secondary hits with 20% accuracy, maybe it is reduced to 15%, at 10km they hit at 5%, maybe is reduced to 3%, but at 15km they have a 1%.  (I'm just throwing numbers at the board here, someone with a spreadsheet will know what the actual numbers are)

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21 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

I used to think the speed was an issue with BBs but now torpedoes are easily dodged unless launched point blank,

 I think the word easily should be removed from this sentence . 

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Nah.

What WG should do is fix Manual Secondaries so that the opposite side will fire at anyone without the accuracy buff.

Guns blazing on both sides is the biggest thing I miss about my mansec built ships.

Edited by macktkau2
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3 minutes ago, clammboy said:

 I think the word easily should be removed from this sentence . 

Not for me, I can honestly say if using my screen correctly then I know they are coming a mile away with all the in game mechanics and once seen always seen.

Unless the ship launching is very close/point blank.

Do you really get hit that often?

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Well that was one of my opinion. AFT shouldn't increase the range of the secondaries: there is no reason why commander X would increase the range of the guns after all.

baked it in for any secondaries (yes, Haida would profit from it) and make it into some ''change HE to AP for secondaries'' instead.

Why?

the IFHE rework did hit hard many secondary BB (tier 9 et lower French for instance), but giving them the possibility to shoot AP would be a good alternative.

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17 minutes ago, clammboy said:

 I think the word easily should be removed from this sentence . 

And replaced with effortlessly.

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25 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Not for me, I can honestly say if using my screen correctly then I know they are coming a mile away with all the in game mechanics and once seen always seen.

Unless the ship launching is very close/point blank.

Do you really get hit that often?

Only when I'm drinking . 

But seriously not really sometimes in the middle of a battle if I'm focusing to much on targets .

Plane torps can be a problem when you don't want to give broad side to another BB .

Also some of these new DD have some pretty fast torps now there not as easy to dodge even at range in a BB . 

Edited by clammboy
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The biggest problem with secondaries is that they are so expensive to run. 

At minimum you need AFT and that's 4 points that could be better spent on literally anything else

If you want to make secondaries great then you need to lower to cost for running it. A lot of the times you have to give up survivability or concealment for a mediocre return. 

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56 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Only when I'm drinking . 

But seriously not really sometimes in the middle of a battle if I'm focusing to much on targets .

Plane torps can be a problem when you don't want to give broad side to another BB .

Also some of these new DD have some pretty fast torps now there not as easy to dodge even at range in a BB . 

Well hell, that's acceptable! :Smile_teethhappy:

I get what you're saying though, I think it is more how I am viewing it.

If I am not looking at the big picture and get hit I view it as my own fault. If I get hit by plane torps because I don't want to get blapped, I look at it as my own fault because I made a mistake - or there was nothing I could do so chose the lesser of 2 evils.

If it is a Euro DD it doesn't matter, I'm more likely to cause damage by breaking wind - what with the torp belt and flood nerfs the only torps that can hit you aren't going to hurt. For me the Euro DDs were just another anti DD measure - a DD that was made for hunting DDs. :Smile_honoring:

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1 hour ago, macktkau2 said:

Nah.

What WG should do is fix Manual Secondaries so that the opposite side will fire at anyone without the accuracy buff.

Guns blazing on both sides is the biggest thing I miss about my mansec built ships.

This ^.

A 4 point top tier captain skill and it takes away half your secondary firepower for a uneven trade off on the other side. That's just stupid - you are essentially paying 4 points to make your ship LESS effective. And that's not even factoring in the times you miss seeing a viable target  because you are busy with other stuff or forget to click on a ship until it is well within range. Thus cutting down on your DPS even more....

The very least they could do is add an on/off toggle to manual secondaries just like AA has. If manual secondaries are toggled off then all secondaries work normally, if toggled on, THEN they have to be manually aimed to concentrate on one target.

Edited by capncrunch21
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1 hour ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Not for me, I can honestly say if using my screen correctly then I know they are coming a mile away with all the in game mechanics and once seen always seen.

Unless the ship launching is very close/point blank.

Do you really get hit that often?

I  hit you BB's often enough so...  :cap_like:

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Nobody will listen, but making them about 10km, accurate and a 2 charge consumable would work well. Cooldown and dwell time is up to WG.

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2 hours ago, Glamorboy said:

Again, not trying to increase the power or upset the balance of BB's.

I am suggesting you keep the average damage of secondaries the same by reducing the hit % of guns, but increase the range dramatically.

So if at 5km, a secondary hits with 20% accuracy, maybe it is reduced to 15%, at 10km they hit at 5%, maybe is reduced to 3%, but at 15km they have a 1%.  (I'm just throwing numbers at the board here, someone with a spreadsheet will know what the actual numbers are)

So, you want to make it worse than watching my secondaries shoot into the water next to my own ship like they do now? We could just have deck launched fireworks instead of secondaries.

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Folks who cant aim should have fun too. 

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16 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

Folks who cant aim should have fun too. 

That's why 457mm is here No need to aim for the water line. Secondaries would be for bots.

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31 minutes ago, Airjellyfish said:

So, you want to make it worse than watching my secondaries shoot into the water next to my own ship like they do now? We could just have deck launched fireworks instead of secondaries.

lol, +1, yeah sometimes I shake my head on how utterly horrid a secondary shot is.  If they kept the hit% the same, but at least closed the circle up so that shots only miss by a couple km's, it would make me feel better as well.  There are some truly awful shots that happen.

As for your second sentence, that's basically what I want.  I want my secondaries blazing away all the time even though they will basically be fireworks.  Because fireworks is better than no fireworks.

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1 hour ago, Airjellyfish said:

So, you want to make it worse than watching my secondaries shoot into the water next to my own ship like they do now? We could just have deck launched fireworks instead of secondaries.

Lujtjens...gets you both secondaries AND fireworks. :cap_like:

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from what i remember wg thinks secondaries are at a good spot. they said once that they think automatic damage should not be the main damage dealing ability of any ship. i kinda agree with that (even if it makes my little german heart cry) so i guess im saying "don't expect a change?"

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1 hour ago, capncrunch21 said:

This ^.

A 4 point top tier captain skill and it takes away half your secondary firepower for a uneven trade off on the other side. That's just stupid - you are essentially paying 4 points to make your ship LESS effective. And that's not even factoring in the times you miss seeing a viable target  because you are busy with other stuff or forget to click on a ship until it is well within range. Thus cutting down on your DPS even more....

 

Well isn't the idea that it vastly improves accuracy and thus effectiveness of your secondaries? I run a secondary Massa (without IFHE though) and I noticed just how much more effective my secondaries became with manual control, to the point that AFT made no sense before having the accuracy to actually hit something. I do miss the spectacle of both sides blazing away though.

 

1 hour ago, capncrunch21 said:

The very least they could do is add an on/off toggle to manual secondaries just like AA has. If manual secondaries are toggled off then all secondaries work normally, if toggled on, THEN they have to be manually aimed to concentrate on one target.

I could totally get behind the idea of making it on/off, with an accuracy buff/penalty if engaged or not engaged. Would lend a bit more flexibility in brawling situations with multiple ships in close range.

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2 hours ago, Anonymous50 said:

I  hit you BB's often enough so...  :cap_like:

Well good for you - but the average across the servers is pretty damn low. I'd even say I'm more likely to get killed by secondaries than torps.

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4 hours ago, Glamorboy said:

Again, not trying to increase the power or upset the balance of BB's.

I am suggesting you keep the average damage of secondaries the same by reducing the hit % of guns, but increase the range dramatically.

So if at 5km, a secondary hits with 20% accuracy, maybe it is reduced to 15%, at 10km they hit at 5%, maybe is reduced to 3%, but at 15km they have a 1%.  (I'm just throwing numbers at the board here, someone with a spreadsheet will know what the actual numbers are)

Secondaries are very RNG dependent. So even you hit 2 shells out of 100 from 12km, there is a chance them to set a fire and you getting rewarded without any skill being involved. This would automatically increase the damage output of BBs even if you reduce the secondary accuracy. 

So , no. BBs are already strong and they definitely dont need any more buffs. 

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