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Sabot_100

Smarter Bots?

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Often wonder if WG will ever tweak the bot programming to make them smarter. Not more accurate but able to at least use their consumables more efficiently. Actually thought WG had buffed the bot programming in a recent game. I was in BB and there was a  bot DD 10K out hiding in smoke between 2 islands and shooting me. (wth-Bots don't use smoke?!?!?) He was moving too. He would go forward a bit behind one island where I couldn't hit him but he could shoot me,, then back up and occasionally he would back out of his smoke about a ship length, then jump right back in. Did this several times. I was amazed and unfortunately had trouble landing more than a couple of hits. I thought his could be a game changer in COOP.  However, having thought about it afterwards I realized the bot wasn't smart, he was normal bot stupid and stuck between those 2 islands. He would ground, back up into the island behind him, then go forward and ground again. Rinse and repeat. The only difference was this bot had lived long enough for his smoke to recharge. 

Guess the day of the smart bot isn't here yet. I'd love to see them a bit smarter. Not by upping their gun accuracy or psychic torp dodging, but making them better at using their consumables. 

( this is an edited repost of a comment in a different thread.)

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They have been with most every patch ever since they made them quite good and so many complained that they reverted to the terminally stupid bots. Small tweaks here and there that are noticed but don't drastically change how they operate compared to the previous patch.

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8 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

They have been with most every patch ever since they made them quite good and so many complained that they reverted to the terminally stupid bots. Small tweaks here and there that are noticed but don't drastically change how they operate compared to the previous patch.

Obviously they have to nerf bots a bit. They know exactly where you are, how fast you are going and what the lead point is to  land shells on you. (it also seems they can compute turning lead points). WG must give an RNG factor to their aim beyond the RNG that determines where the shell lands. Bots can't shoot/torp into smoke because,for them, it wouldn't be a guess at all.

I figure they could add RNG to their consumables (smoke, radar, hydro, planes) too. A triggering event like getting spotted starts a random timer before the consumable is used. A smoking DD automatically cuts speed to zero then accelerates as soon as it slows to 0 (or make this random to if and how much it slows). 

Not really smart, just more random.

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True but bots that make playing the objectives valueable will increase both experience and credits and if done right will not increase the time in battle more than the gains.

Edited by BrushWolf

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IDK, I had a game one morning where a bot Colorado on my team sank about 3, and was atop the leaderboard.

I was by myself and I spawned on the side of the map where everything was far away.

That bot Colorado left a wake of sunken vessels and damaged ones. By the time I got there, he pretty much wrapped it up. Had I not been fast enough, he would have one shot the CV too.

I think bot accuracy is very good. The torp dodging is definitely driving me nuts, but I am okay with it. It's a new challenge.

As for firing blind, I don't know think it's blind, but more that they fire based on last known position. The Devs just added a delay so bots look like they are guessing, but in actuality, they are using last known location fix and attacking.

I did notice that the red bot CV attacks more efficient with rockets. And bombs or torps are landing with better accuracy as well.

In my opinion, any applied learning is good. So long as WG compensates well for it, we will be okay.

 

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There appears to be the occasional overachieving friendly bot, superbot if you will, who kills more than his share and ends up at the top or near the top of the table. The targeting awareness that the red bots have is ridiculous, locking onto a BB at full range and firing AP will cause that BB to angle or adjust course just enough to minimize the incoming salvo.  

I think my only real gripe just now is not to do with bots abilities but the spawn points. We all know that your battle performance can be predetermined to be crap just because you've been solo spawned in the middle of nowhere (East Bumbreed is the colloquial expression in Maine). I think WG needs to look at their spawn algorithm and either cut the spawn points to two with a single ship spawned in the middle, or ensure an even distribution of ships to the three spawn points. To have your effectiveness essentially screwed at the start of a battle really does suck.

Edited by Efros
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Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
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I don't mind harder bots as long as the rewards are increased.

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I wish Wargaming would tweak OUR bots (the green bots) to make them smarter, in at least 3 ways:

 

#1.  Too many times I've been in games with one final enemy bot, and both I and an allied bot are in hot pursuit.

Suddenly my ally torps me!  Bizarre!

 

#2.  We are in the lead on points, time is ticking down, and our bot (last remaining ship) is in the enemy cap, denying them points.  There are two enemy bots in our cap, just starting their capping (and they'll never complete doing it in the time remaining). 

Our bot leaves their cap (and now they are getting cap XP and we are not) and charges the two enemies in our cap.  Either they kill him and we lose, or they surpass us in points in the time remaining -- and we lose.

 

#3.  The enemy carrier nearly always flees toward endgame when the bot team is losing, yet our (*bot) carrier rarely (if ever?) does so under similar circumstances. 

If we have the points (and time) advantage, and the enemy team can't cap our base to win, then our carrier should emulate the enemy carrier AI -- and run for it!

Edited by Zoot21
Edit: *clarifying -- our carrier is a bot*

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Try sub mode, they’re much smarter than in regular co op.  Italian cruisers do not immediately smoke, most bot ships I’ve observed appear to know what he throttle is, some will kite away, etc. 

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4 hours ago, FrodoFraggin said:

most bot ships I’ve observed appear to know what he throttle is

You mean their throttle or yours? To me, trying to speed jink the bots is hopeless unless you have really high acceleration/deceleration. As mentioned elsewhere, they do use their throttle to avoid collisions with allies (at least the red bots do). Seems like they can spend a lot of time deciding if they should throttle back up.

 

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On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 9:09 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'm fine with harder Co-op bots, as long as the rewards go up accordingly.

Same here, as long as it comes from making them smarter, and not more supernatural.

 

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On 6/14/2020 at 7:09 PM, Sabot_100 said:

 

Often wonder if WG will ever tweak the bot programming to make them smarter. Not more accurate but able to at least use their consumables more efficiently. Actually thought WG had buffed the bot programming in a recent game. I was in BB and there was a  bot DD 10K out hiding in smoke between 2 islands and shooting me. (wth-Bots don't use smoke?!?!?) He was moving too. He would go forward a bit behind one island where I couldn't hit him but he could shoot me,, then back up and occasionally he would back out of his smoke about a ship length, then jump right back in. Did this several times. I was amazed and unfortunately had trouble landing more than a couple of hits. I thought his could be a game changer in COOP.  However, having thought about it afterwards I realized the bot wasn't smart, he was normal bot stupid and stuck between those 2 islands. He would ground, back up into the island behind him, then go forward and ground again. Rinse and repeat. The only difference was this bot had lived long enough for his smoke to recharge. 

Guess the day of the smart bot isn't here yet. I'd love to see them a bit smarter. Not by upping their gun accuracy or psychic torp dodging, but making them better at using their consumables. 

( this is an edited repost of a comment in a different thread.)

Giving bots the abilities to be "faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap tall building in a single bound" (if you're too young to remember, that is from the opening of the 1950's Superman TV show) is the cheapest way to make bots tough in PVE battles.

It is very evident that WG care little about PVE and a lot about PVP. I do not foresee any change in that attitude. I believe something radical would need to happen before that attitude is changed, such as replacing the top decision makers. I don't see that happening.

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