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Soshi_Sone

Question for Purples

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What is your take on a Clan season T10 (no T10 CVs), but allowing 1 T8 CV per side?  Doable?  Still OP?

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cv ruins any intelligent gameplay just by existing, the entire map spotting within 10 seconds removes any strategical play.

the best clan battles season they can provide is 7v7 1 bb, limit of 2 dd and no duplicate ships. Also cyclones can leave that was awful.

Edited by ITZ_ACE_BABY
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8 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

cv ruins any intelligent gameplay just by existing, the entire map spotting within 10 seconds removes any strategical play.

the best clan battles season they can provide is 7v7 1 bb, limit of 2 dd and no duplicate ships. Also cyclones can leave that was awful.

Questions: 

Why having the cards on the table (deploy spot) removes strategic play? I don't see a direct correlation.

Why 7vs7 is the better format? I understand it to be a more "personal" experience but isn't it in a way limited in its scope?

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20 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

cv ruins any intelligent gameplay just by existing, the entire map spotting within 10 seconds removes any strategical play.

the best clan battles season they can provide is 7v7 1 bb, limit of 2 dd and no duplicate ships. Also cyclones can leave that was awful.

Why a BB limit?

I got that WG limited them a long time ago but why?

Why not 7BBs per team if a clan wants to? Or 7 DDs? Or whatever an individual clan wants to choose? (Leaving CVs out of this inquiry... don't even want to put the concept of 7 CVs at once on a team into the universe...oops! Damn...sorry bout that).

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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3 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Questions: 

Why having the cards on the table (deploy spot) removes strategic play? I don't see a direct correlation.

Why 7vs7 is the better format? I understand it to be a more "personal" experience but isn't it in a way limited in its scope?

cv doesnt just spot at the start of the game it reveals the entire map throughout so there cannot be any sneaky plays or tactical flanking, it literally is just removing any intelligent game play, which is why this previous clan battle season was the worst yet, just sniping and trying to outlast cv.

7v7 is best because its the least amount of players required to maintain a fast paced game yet doesnt require too many people per team that you can only 1 run team per session.All competitive clans have very limited players now due to nobody wanting to play the game anymore so being able to run 2 teams per session means faster queue times for alot of us.

with limiting ships per map it creates more avenues that will not be covered by spotting encouraging sneaky pushes and flanking where if you have more ships per side it will create more of a stand off of sniping as there will be more angles covered for crossfiring.

 

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4 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Why a BB limit?

I got that WG limited them a long time ago but why?

Why not 7BBs per team if a clan wants to? Or 7 DDs? Or whatever an individual clan wants to choose? (Leaving CVs out of this inquiry... don't even want to put the concept of 7 CVs at once on a team into the universe...oops! Damn...sorry bout that).

BB have 100k hp which isnt the fastest to remove without another bb or alot of torps, by having effectively 700k on your team you can just walk down the map and roll over the enemy team. By limiting the amount of bb it encourages strategic plays as the bb lately is often used as the kingpin for pushing and being aggressive in the form of kreml but previous seasons it was used as the sniper mainly using yamato to remove any ship that misplays or over extends by putting your battleship in a position to create a crossfire and remove large amounts of hp that would help your cruiser to push and win a flank.

limiting DD hasnt been an issue in previous seasons but the last 2 season has been an issue because of wargaming excellent balancing team with the release of the kleber, very well balansed with the amount of fire power and torpedo damage it was used in a wolfpack of 4-5 of them capable of removing cruisers in a matter of 60 seconds. Because of kleber damage saturation mechanic it took very minimal damage from h.e on top of already being very hard to hit as it is very maneuverable so the only way to counter kleber was with more kleber, there was 1 situation where i was in a stalingrad playing against a kleber team and i hit 1 kleber with 9 stalin h.e shells for 3k damage. This meta was almost as unfun as playing against cv so this is why most of us would prefer to see a DD limit.

 

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16 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

cv doesnt just spot at the start of the game it reveals the entire map throughout so there cannot be any sneaky plays or tactical flanking, it literally is just removing any intelligent game play, which is why this previous clan battle season was the worst yet, just sniping and trying to outlast cv.

7v7 is best because its the least amount of players required to maintain a fast paced game yet doesnt require too many people per team that you can only 1 run team per session.All competitive clans have very limited players now due to nobody wanting to play the game anymore so being able to run 2 teams per session means faster queue times for alot of us.

with limiting ships per map it creates more avenues that will not be covered by spotting encouraging sneaky pushes and flanking where if you have more ships per side it will create more of a stand off of sniping as there will be more angles covered for crossfiring.

 

I understand a low number (7) is desirable to keep the game open an fluid, but in the context of CVs, wouldn't be better to have more ships as a way to dilute and limit the CV power?

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Is there any scenario in which a CV could be included in a way that wouldn't anger and frustrate CB players?

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3 minutes ago, Brohk said:

Is there any scenario in which a CV could be included in a way that wouldn't anger and frustrate CB players?

As long as they depend on concealment plays for all their 'intelligent' plays, no.  I'm sure there are intelligent plays w/o depending on concealment all the time, but seem like a lot of purples don't think so.

That's the issue.  CVs slow/stop the stealth 'big plays' that they like so much, and they got so good at when RTS carriers were so scarce.  That's what the whole rework furor is about, really.  The damage is just a sidebar.

Edited by Kirov_Six

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1 hour ago, Soshi_Sone said:

What is your take on a Clan season T10 (no T10 CVs), but allowing 1 T8 CV per side?  Doable?  Still OP?

Still OP as Enterprise, a T10 CV in disguise, still exists. Shokaku as a T9 CV in disguise would also provide a viable alternative.

 

1 minute ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

CV's can only see anything is a 15km radius. You need to update your book of whines.

Which is easily cheesed by fighters.

 Funny how you chastise others for ignorance yet wallow in it yourself.

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Still OP as Enterprise, a T10 CV in disguise, still exists. Shokaku as a T9 CV in disguise would also provide a viable alternative.

 

Which is easily cheesed by fighters.

 Funny how you chastise others for ignorance yet wallow in it yourself.

You forgot to add those planes travel 150+ km or more so you can move that 15km bubble to anywhere you need in less than 30 seconds.

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12 minutes ago, Brohk said:

Is there any scenario in which a CV could be included in a way that wouldn't anger and frustrate CB players?

Honestly they would have to completely rework the class something they seem to be unwilling to do.

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17 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

CV's can only see anything is a 15km radius. You need to update your book of whines.

crazy what pressing W can do when you travel 200knots 

 

image.jpeg.0470e5d0630f8067475ce804a7d978fc.jpeg

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29 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

I understand a low number (7) is desirable to keep the game open an fluid, but in the context of CVs, wouldn't be better to have more ships as a way to dilute and limit the CV power?

cv dominate random battles with 12 ships per team it doesnt matter how many ships you put in its way, who willingly wants to play blob simulator put 4-5 ships together in a small area to try and survive against 1 class of ship? thats not fun at all. 

you cannot have competitive game play with current cv, the spotting alone just ruins anything intelligent about competitive and the ability to dominate every ship makes variety pointless.

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20 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

cv dominate random battles with 12 ships per team it doesnt matter how many ships you put in its way, who willingly wants to play blob simulator put 4-5 ships together in a small area to try and survive against 1 class of ship? thats not fun at all. 

you cannot have competitive game play with current cv, the spotting alone just ruins anything intelligent about competitive and the ability to dominate every ship makes variety pointless.

Basically, the spotting mechanism is the real deal breaker, because once spotted any ship is quickly dispatched by focus fire?

This makes blob grouping the meta strategy against the CV spot, which incidentally maximizes the strategy against the CV's weapons delivery capability.  From a competition meta perspective, the CV drives everyone to the same strategy...blob against blob?

Question:  Would things change much if no spotting data (from CV aircraft) were transmitted from CV to the other players?  Nothing in 3D and nothing on minimap..not even an icon.  Obviously, the CV captain toggle a sector block, but that' it.  The sector block would be identified, but no ability to engage, other than the CV?   

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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Something tells me even if CV’s are banned from CB. Something else is going to make it’s way in, at least once.

9B489C40-5D82-4674-90FE-2612BCFCED19.jpeg

Edited by Capt_Ahab1776
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39 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Cvs ruin any chance of competent strategy by their spotting, not their damage output. 

Tell that to my CV win-rate.  :Smile_veryhappy:

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I may not be a "purple" player, but the difficulty people have is learning to play well in an environment that doesn't cater to their old methods.

As @Soshi_Sone pointed out, forming AA bubbles is how to shoot down planes.
Shoot down enough planes and there won't be enough planes to perform a strike because the remaining planes won't survive the AA bubble long enough to make an attack.

But, for whatever reason, people continue to avoid sailing in formation and focusing their fire on the nearest opposition ship.

One would have thought that Operation Narai would have taught people how to do this tactic by now.

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3 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Basically, the spotting mechanism is the real deal breaker, because once spotted any ship is quickly dispatched by focus fire?

This makes blob grouping the meta strategy against the CV spot, which incidentally maximizes the strategy against the CV's weapons delivery capability.  From a competition meta perspective, the CV drives everyone to the same strategy...blob against blob?

Question:  Would things change much if no spotting data (from CV aircraft) were transmitted from CV to the other players?  Nothing in 3D and nothing on minimap..not even an icon.  Obviously, the CV captain toggle a sector block, but that' it.  The sector block would be identified, but no ability to engage, other than the CV?   

we have brought up many fixes to cv but wargaming has no interest they want to keep them as easy and abusive as possible to appeal to certain players.

if cv could not spot for team that would make a big improvement obviously the cv would be in voice comms with his team and could just relay what hes seeing but its a step in a positive direction.

one simple easy fix i highly recommend was that planes do not know when they are detected so they do not know if a ship is near them like a destroyer, this would make destroyer gameplay alot less restricting and not make the destroyer class redundant when cv exists.

Having some form of skill based counterplay between cv would be a huge improvement, the current "counter" of dropping a fighter is so bad, there is no gameplay between cv its just a mobile game of who can grief the enemy team the fastest.

im not one of those delete cv people but cv really need an overhaul if competitive is to have any form of success with cv added including functional AA, some ships like wooster that when fully specced for AA can stop plane strikes, by forcing captains to rebuild into AA you sacrifice alot of DPM and counter surface ship abilities which would be a balanced concept to me.

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5 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I may not be a "purple" player, but the difficulty people have is learning to play well in an environment that doesn't cater to their old methods.

As @Soshi_Sone pointed out, forming AA bubbles is how to shoot down planes.
Shoot down enough planes and there won't be enough planes to perform a strike because the remaining planes won't survive the AA bubble long enough to make an attack.

But, for whatever reason, people continue to avoid sailing in formation and focusing their fire on the nearest opposition ship.

One would have thought that Operation Narai would have taught people how to do this tactic by now.

but by forcing ships to blob together you are removing game play, no flanking no crossfiring just a blob simulator to not counter but survive 1 class of ship.

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Just now, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

but by forcing ships to blob together you are removing game play, no flanking no crossfiring just a blob simulator to not counter but survive 1 class of ship.

Play is play.
Sailing in formation does not remove other sailing options.
Success or failure does point out which ones work, though, eh?

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Think of it as a "push", with your entire team's fleet, eh?

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This is a argument that will never come to any agreement. CVs are going to force players to change constantly in game by spotting ships to force them to work for a win. The once easy wins and climb to the top has changed a lot for those who once use to get there quickly are now struggling. I don't have any issues with them and I feel every class should have the same opportunity. Wait till subs get settled in the game.

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2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Play is play.
Sailing in formation does not remove other sailing options.
Success or failure does point out which ones work, though, eh?

thats why nobody wanted to play last cb season because it was boring and unfun having to stay in groups and trade at 18km

 

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