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EpiCTugA

how to actually balanse the game

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Privet komrad

I bring you my honest ways on how to make this game more balanced and enjoyable for all classes(even bringing harmony between dds and cvs)

 

1: radar

Radar can be changed in 2 ways:

Real radar: radar/hydro can’t detect through islands. This will guarantee that cruisers can still detect smoked up dds but they can’t do it behind the safety of islands with absolutely no penalties and dds can spot and detect as long as they stay out of eye of sight of radar.

Submarine like radar:

What I mean by this is like the submarine pings. You get pings that cost battery. it can also recharge. I think this is more intuitive and much better. This can also be implemented with the first radar change I suggest as well as radar range change. Ships can change radar range. So if you choose to use a 12km radar, you can freely use it but it will cost a lot of battery. this will also make sure you don’t get so much Russian cruiser spam.

 

Cvs:

1: universal AA range

The 40mm bofors on the montana have a 6km range, on the gearing they have 5.8km. and the 40mm bofors on the montana have the same range as the 128mm l/61 on the gk. Just they like diversity radar change for cruisers, they should diversify AA range on each gun. But each gun doesn’t change the range on a different ship. Each AA mount has a range, be it on the ground, a battleship or a submarine.

2: manual fire control

Im going to sum this with the third point to make this shorter if a cv deploys a fighter next to its torpedo bombers around a ship. The ship will do the exact same damage for both the fighter and the torpedo bobmers. It’s not hard to see you should and must prioritize the torpedo bomber. Use all available AA for that squadrum. With that, flak bursts should make a LOT more AA damage. A cv can just send a squadrum, ignore flaks and still release their torpedos/bombs. Just like battleships get punished for going in straight lines, airplane squadrums should get absolutely nuked if they keep going in astraight line ignoring flak.it shouldn’t happen just to heavily AA mounted ships like the haaland.

 

 DDs:

There really is only one thing I want to see change regarding dds. Overpens. A yamato can’t do 6 overpens and the dd just 6khp but be happily sailing like nothing happened. There’s some astonishing dd survival stories like the hms Cossack but if you get 6 overpens from a 460mm shell you should get severely punished. Overpens of high caliber should still do monstrous damage. It shouldn’t take a battleship 3 salvos to kill a DD

BBs:

Bbs should have a fire control more like the Russian battleships. They should get more damage control parties but can use quicker. This will severely help them against he spam and torpedos as well as keepingthe he spammers happy as if they used all their damage cons they are still at the mercy of the he spammers.

 

Cruisers:

Armour:

Just like bbs. There’s isn’t much to change (besides radar) and that’s the 50mm armour belt. no cruiser should be able to bow in a shikashima or even a montana. Make the 27mm more prevelant with other cruisers or even 30 or 32mm bows but 50mm armor belts shouldn’t be a thing with some special cases like the super heavy Kroonstad class

Sap:

You should not do 12k salvos to a bow in hindi unless you are sailing a battleship. Sap should kill dds but it shouldn’t kill cruisers and battleships that quickly either. In order to make sap viable I would suggest nerfing the damage and and severely nerfing the penetration angles. If you’re bow in in ashima you should get nuked, if you’re bow in in a dm, you shouldn’t get nuked every 20s seconds.

 

These are changes I would love to see implemented and I think would make the game far more enjoyable for every class and keeping harmony with all players. What do you think? Please share your feedback because unlike waraming, I care to see other’s opinion.

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Six Yamato overpens is almost 50% of the HP of all TX dds (8,880 damage).

Planes already fly into flak if they fly in a straight line. It's actually how people can dodge flak - it wrecks planes that fly in straight lines but is dodge-able if you don't.

The rest of your suggestions are basically requests for the highest damage class to get more buffs.

Anyways, I disagree that a lot of these would be good.

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49 minutes ago, EpiCTugA said:

1: universal AA range

 

The 40mm bofors on the montana have a 6km range, on the gearing they have 5.8km. and the 40mm bofors on the montana have the same range as the 128mm l/61 on the gk. Just they like diversity radar change for cruisers, they should diversify AA range on each gun. But each gun doesn’t change the range on a different ship. Each AA mount has a range, be it on the ground, a battleship or a submarine.

 Besides the fact you are barely crawling in game experience, you obviously have no idea how naval gunnery, or gunnery in general actually works.

 

A 40mm Bofors mounted on a BB is a far different animal than one mounted on a cruiser, DD, or sub. USN BB's mounted massive numbers of dual and quad 40mm. Although the effective range of each gun didn't change, just by shear volume of fire the effective range of the AA suite did. Now take into account that a BB is a far more stable gun platform than a DD or sub. Then there's the fact that sub's never mounted AA fire control.

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1 minute ago, Ares1967 said:

 Besides the fact you are barely crawling in game experience, you obviously have no idea how naval gunnery, or gunnery in general actually works.

 

A 40mm Bofors mounted on a BB is a far different animal than one mounted on a cruiser, DD, or sub. USN BB's mounted massive numbers of dual and quad 40mm. Although the effective range of each gun didn't change, just by shear volume of fire the effective range of the AA suite did. Now take into account that a BB is a far more stable gun platform than a DD or sub. Then there's the fact that sub's never mounted AA fire control.

This is just my na account.

And you proved my point. the AA range doesn't change. more AA mounts, more volume of fire. range however, doesn't change the same 40mm bofors have the exact same range on an alabama, a gearing or even on my rooftop.

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29 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

Six Yamato overpens is almost 50% of the HP of all TX dds (8,880 damage).

Planes already fly into flak if they fly in a straight line. It's actually how people can dodge flak - it wrecks planes that fly in straight lines but is dodge-able if you don't.

The rest of your suggestions are basically requests for the highest damage class to get more buffs.

Anyways, I disagree that a lot of these would be good.

planes do fly into flak if they run in a straight line. but even as careless as that you always get your drop off.

and i donºt think this is requesting buffs for higher damage classes which are bbs and cvs. nerfing sap, changing radar, changing dmcon to of the russian have. the only changing helping one of these classes is the reduction of 50mm armour belts in ships like venezia and al nevsky.

what would you suggest then? iºm genuinaly interested in seeing ways to make the game more enjoyable for all classes

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1 hour ago, EpiCTugA said:

radar

 

Radar can be changed in 2 ways:

 

Real radar: radar/hydro can’t detect through islands. This will guarantee that cruisers can still detect smoked up dds but they can’t do it behind the safety of islands with absolutely no penalties and dds can spot and detect as long as they stay out of eye of sight of radar.

Impossible to implement this. If you remove the ability to see through islands all you do is create "no go zones."

Would you want your ship to be the one to have to push blindly around an island to see if a Shimakaze has all 3 sets of torps ready for you? In late game it happens but that due to skill or nessecity but in early game it makes every island way to dangerous to venture around.

Imagine the meta that develops from every DD running to an island to set up torp ambushes. No spotting, just Holy Grail plays for maximum damage. Radar and CVs are the best ways to keep this countered.

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3 minutes ago, Skuggsja said:

Impossible to implement this. If you remove the ability to see through islands all you do is create "no go zones."

Would you want your ship to be the one to have to push blindly around an island to see if a Shimakaze has all 3 sets of torps ready for you? In late game it happens but that due to skill or nessecity but in early game it makes every island way to dangerous to venture around.

Imagine the meta that develops from every DD running to an island to set up torp ambushes. No spotting, just Holy Grail plays for maximum damage. Radar and CVs are the best ways to keep this countered.

the cruiser don't need to nose in the caps to spot the dds. it would be a lot more fun to see some dd contesting caps on themselves but at least that-s my view on the matter. what would you suggest?

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24 minutes ago, EpiCTugA said:

the cruiser don't need to nose in the caps to spot the dds. it would be a lot more fun to see some dd contesting caps on themselves but at least that-s my view on the matter. what would you suggest?

Nothing. Leave it as it is.

Having a ship able to play completely invisible with some of the most dangerous, high potential damage on the battlefield needs a counter.  CVs and DDs, at least at the last CC summit, were shown to be the most influential classes in game. Radar helps to keep DDs from becoming out of control, not just damage wise but simply by spotting unopposed.

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1 hour ago, Skuggsja said:

Nothing. Leave it as it is.

Having a ship able to play completely invisible with some of the most dangerous, high potential damage on the battlefield needs a counter.  CVs and DDs, at least at the last CC summit, were shown to be the most influential classes in game. Radar helps to keep DDs from becoming out of control, not just damage wise but simply by spotting unopposed.

That is true about dds, I remember back in CBT when IJN DDs would be top of the team and wouldn't be spotted the whole game. You also had open water stealth firing.

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As a CV main I'll address those: I Disagree with the flak comments. You should check out the gameplay suggestions sub forum for my list, I think you'll like some of those.

 

In short, the interaction between ships and planes needs to be enhanced. I think ships should have a control to manually aim set of guns at planes. The guns would do more damage than the otherwise auto damage.

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6 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Didn't take long to figure out this is a heavy BB main writing this nonsense.

no sir. bbs are ok and i'm trying to main them on NA but i mostly play cruisers. love my kiters, love my hindi and my yoshino specially

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Since OP is so fond of arguing historical realism for radar, I think we should give him what he asks for.

  • It can't see through islands anymore
  • It's always on
  • It has a far higher range than 10 / 12 km
  • Every ship has it
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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Since OP is so fond of arguing historical realism for radar, I think we should give him what he asks for.

  • It can't see through islands anymore
  • It's always on
  • It has a far higher range than 10 / 12 km
  • Every ship has it

not in the slightest. it was just ways i thought could improve the game. as i stated, feel free to give your feedback. i didn't stated historical realism once so not sure where you got that from

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1 minute ago, EpiCTugA said:

i didn't stated historical realism once so not sure where you got that from

Hmmm.

3 hours ago, EpiCTugA said:

Real radar: radar/hydro can’t detect through islands.

Methinks you need a new narrative.

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1 minute ago, Lert said:

Hmmm.

Methinks you need a new narrative.

again, never stated historical reallism. just stated real radar doesn't go through islands. not historically accuarate 1945 radar. never stated historical realism. not even sure where you got that from, let alone " Since OP is so fond of arguing historical realism for radar"

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Just now, EpiCTugA said:

again, never stated historical reallism. just stated real radar doesn't go through islands. not historically accuarate 1945 radar. never stated historical realism. not even sure where you got that from, let alone " Since OP is so fond of arguing historical realism for radar"

So now you're saying - .... What? That there's a difference between historical realism and

3 hours ago, EpiCTugA said:

Real radar

How's the weather in that fantasy land you seem to live in?

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Just now, Lert said:

So now you're saying - .... What? That there's a difference between historical realism and

How's the weather in that fantasy land you seem to live in?

i stated realism, not historical realism. it's not hard to understand this mate. you're just twisting words.

i stated radar, real radar doesn't go through islands. i never stated radar in ww2 or radar in the vietnam war, never stated past radar, never mentioned any historical moment or timezone. just stated radar as it is. don't need to twist words mate. i'm just suggesting improvements, feel free to drop your own.

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31 minutes ago, Lert said:

Since OP is so fond of arguing historical realism for radar, I think we should give him what he asks for.

  • It can't see through islands anymore
  • It's always on
  • It has a far higher range than 10 / 12 km
  • Every ship has it

Let's add in torpedoes sinking ships after 1-2 hits since he wants to basically eliminate DDs with his Yammy example.

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18 minutes ago, EpiCTugA said:

i stated radar, real radar doesn't go through islands.

Real radar also doesn't magically stop at 10 / 12 km, doesn't go off after 20 seconds and is carried on far, far more ships. Like, all of them.

You're cherrypicking which aspect of 'real' you want for your radar to push your own narrative, which by the looks of this thread, most people here don't agree with. Now, you can continue to argue my use of the word 'historical' or actually address the points I've brought up. But I think I know which you prefer based on the narrative you're trying to push and points you are focusing on.

You say you have a far more experienced account on another server? Go post there.

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3 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

Nothing. Leave it as it is.

Having a ship able to play completely invisible with some of the most dangerous, high potential damage on the battlefield needs a counter.  CVs and DDs, at least at the last CC summit, were shown to be the most influential classes in game. Radar helps to keep DDs from becoming out of control, not just damage wise but simply by spotting unopposed.

Really?  OK, I give up:  what is the point of 5.4 detect anyway?  With planes all over the map and 10-12KM radar ships in threes and fours now per match, what's the point of using a DD????   To help you earn points and the DD getting the shaft because spotting yields nothing and takes on ALL of the risk???

So, what's the counter:  to Radar that is 100% accurate through Islands and storms; shared with other ships in real time as if it was 1969 (the first use of integrated SAG fire control solutions); and, planes that can cross the map all game long with impunity because my DD doesn't have enough AA to counter planes????  So, who has all of the advantages:  Cruisers and Carriers.

Solution:  lets limit Radar to one ship one radar and see what happens.....can't share the data.    Or, give DD's chaff/jamming.  And/or, upgrade DD's that choose to be a picket or AA configuration platform with AA munitions (Proximity) and more long range flak if the DDs are using 100+ caliber dual purpose guns; and, give the IJN AA ships AA radar that increases the long range fire to 8 Km just like they had in WW2.... 

 

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Real radar also doesn't magically stop at 10 / 12 km, doesn't go off after 20 seconds and is carried on far, far more ships. Like, all of them.

You're cherrypicking which aspect of 'real' you want for your radar to push your own narrative, which by the looks of this thread, most people here don't agree with. Now, you can continue to argue my use of the word 'historical' or actually address the points I've brought up. But I think I know which you prefer based on the narrative you're trying to push and points you are focusing on.

You say you have a far more experienced account on another server? Go post there.

Cherry picking is a valid statement.   Think about it this way:  what is the point of 5.4 detect if you never can use it???  Some radar is effective "beyond the effective ranges of the guns and torps of the DD's being spotted !"  Now, we see DD's with radar and one wonders what will happen, as you said or inferred, that everyone did have radar???  What would be the point of the game then?  Why even have detect at all?  To what end?

I've told the story of my father-in-law before because he was a FTG on the MO in WW2 and Korea.  We shared all sorts of stories about "what really went on" with Fire Control and had some neat discussion about "radar"..........   They killed several atolls; massacred pods of whales;  shot at each other on occasions since at times, especially, when DD CPT's were exercising "discretion at the FEBA" and weren't where they were "supposed to be;" and, all sorts of "relayed FC data disasters" since Radar data and the FDC centers weren't located in the same compartment and that situation created "late shots" that were almost fatal to blue forces......  Reality isn't even remotely used in this game and I accept that......and, I'm vote with my feet by not playing DD's anymore in Randoms or seldom, in Ranked.   The battlespace mechanics are too one sided since the Cruiser Line Split......  I haven't quit the game.  I can play and have adapted to Radar but, there is no value in doing so.....  1) it's not any fun and 2) there is little value to earn.......

Your points are valid......  It's just that I can't rationalize what a 5.4 detect does for me anymore?????  There wasn't a game where I wasn't spotted in the first three minutes by planes and by the 5th minute, several radars............game after game after game.........   Then, after avoiding everything and ending up the last ship "for the win"...........there was no way to survive the planes !!!!  DD's don't heal and planes and radar do...........  Balance?  That isn't what our host wants.........

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The only reason have radar is DD had way to much power. Cv were suppose to spot DD but they disappeared.

Add a rank season that should have been called smoke season.  Many people died of smoke inhalation that year.

Radar and a hard cap of 4 DD perside were added.  

So no radar should not go away because there is to much smoke and cv are still 59/50 at best.

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8 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Cherry picking is a valid statement.   Think about it this way:  what is the point of 5.4 detect if you never can use it???  Some radar is effective "beyond the effective ranges of the guns and torps of the DD's being spotted !"  Now, we see DD's with radar and one wonders what will happen, as you said or inferred, that everyone did have radar???  What would be the point of the game then?  Why even have detect at all?  To what end?

I've told the story of my father-in-law before because he was a FTG on the MO in WW2 and Korea.  We shared all sorts of stories about "what really went on" with Fire Control and had some neat discussion about "radar"..........   They killed several atolls; massacred pods of whales;  shot at each other on occasions since at times, especially, when DD CPT's were exercising "discretion at the FEBA" and weren't where they were "supposed to be;" and, all sorts of "relayed FC data disasters" since Radar data and the FDC centers weren't located in the same compartment and that situation created "late shots" that were almost fatal to blue forces......  Reality isn't even remotely used in this game and I accept that......and, I'm vote with my feet by not playing DD's anymore in Randoms or seldom, in Ranked.   The battlespace mechanics are too one sided since the Cruiser Line Split......  I haven't quit the game.  I can play and have adapted to Radar but, there is no value in doing so.....  1) it's not any fun and 2) there is little value to earn.......

Your points are valid......  It's just that I can't rationalize what a 5.4 detect does for me anymore?????  There wasn't a game where I wasn't spotted in the first three minutes by planes and by the 5th minute, several radars............game after game after game.........   Then, after avoiding everything and ending up the last ship "for the win"...........there was no way to survive the planes !!!!  DD's don't heal and planes and radar do...........  Balance?  That isn't what our host wants.........

Radar runns out and is limited stealth is all game long.

You cannot be made at radar when you think its cool to perma spot.  You cannot have it both ways

 

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