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lordholland4293

WG Soviet Paper Ships and reality

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Wish wargaming would watch its own country's documentary produced in Russia and forget about Russia paper ships. Go back to the basic for on improving and balancing the game, keep your veteran player and we will spend money, you want our money here is a tip open them. We All know how smolensk worked out. Why dont you just start selling tier 10 ships if you want new players to spend money 😂😧

Edited by lordholland4293
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It's funny you whine about paper RU ships when you own several lots of non-Russian paper ships yourself.

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They have a market to cater to other than NA.  They're making Russian ships for the Russian customers.

Really, if they didn't make paper ships, they'd run of ship lines to do pretty damned fast.

 

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Personally, I think that they’re still upset that real Russian battleships historically went up like kindling whenever they’d actually face their  IJN counterparts.

Edited by gbgentry
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10 minutes ago, lordholland4293 said:

Wish wargaming would watch its own country's documentary produced in Russia and forget about Russia paper ships. Go back to the basic for on improving and balancing the game, keep your veteran player and we will spend money, you want our money here is a tip open them.

WG doesn't make money from veteran players, but from an influx of new players eager to play and willing to open their wallets because they don't know better.  That's what keeps the lights on.  WG doesn't really care what veteran players think or do.

As for the numerous Russian paper ships, they're fine.  Sure, they're fantasies, and maybe symptomatic of an inferiority complex, but I'd recommend playing them anyway because many of them are so disproportionately effective when played to their particular strengths.

In fairness, the increasingly large number of fake Russian ships in this game is probably resulting from steadily declining population on the RU server.  It is a Russian company after all, and they will understandably cater to their own people.

Edited by Kuckoo
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At the start of the war both soviet and german navies were about the same.  So, the same argument could be made about the paper German ships.

A "print screen" pic from the documentary you posted....

 

soviet and german navies.jpg

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"Reality"

Even the "real" ships in  WoWS are still fantasy arcade boats with arbitrary performance and gimmicks designed for game balance rather than reality. 

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People aren't fine with Paper Russian Ships.

People were fine with Paper as f*** Georgia, Seattle, Buffalo, Montana, GK, FDG, Roon, Hindenburg, Mainz, Agir, Siegfried, Normandie, Lyon, Charles Martel, Saint-Louis, Henri IV, Kitakaze, Harugumo, Ibuki, Zao, etc.

tenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1

Looks like Double Standards to me.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Roon, Hindenburg,

Paper? Much less than that. Fiction. And in the case of Roon it's absurd fiction.

Say what you want, the Soviets at least have a legit cruiser paper design for T10. Same can not be said for the Japanese, the Germans, the Italians or the French. 

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3 minutes ago, SireneRacker said:

Paper? Much less than that. Fiction. And in the case of Roon it's absurd fiction.

Say what you want, the Soviets at least have a legit cruiser paper design for T10. Same can not be said for the Japanese, the Germans, the Italians or the French. 

I basically lump anything that hasn't been constructed and put into actual service into the big umbrella of "Paper Ships."

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When people mix reality and fiction in a game like WOWS, it almost never ends well

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18 hours ago, gbgentry said:

Personally, I think that they’re still upset that real Russian battleships historically went up like kindling whenever they’d actually face their  IJN counterparts.

Ah yes, the Battle of Tsushima Strait. Or as the Imperial Russian Navy calls it: Benihana "Ooohh, hot, hot, sizzling burning ship, who left the vodka out on deck! My beard is on fire, huzzah!"

The IJN simply called it: "The day we showed those bearded guys we sake!, Banzai!, Banzai!"

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman
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2 hours ago, lordholland4293 said:

Wish wargaming would watch its own country's documentary produced in Russia and forget about Russia paper ships. Go back to the basic for on improving and balancing the game, keep your veteran player and we will spend money, you want our money here is a tip open them. We All know how smolensk worked out. Why dont you just start selling tier 10 ships if you want new players to spend money 😂😧

Oink Goltz!

I suggest you watch again the documentary and eat a roll or two of your favorite toilet paper.
"Soviet Storm" is a Russian produced documentary about the Great Patriotic War, i.e. the post Barbarossa operations in the East.
As you know, the game is "loosely based" on 1900 to 1950's navies and battles.
We are not trying to replicate the operations in the Baltic or Black Sea here.
I again feel the old school player writing... Dude Lord Holland the 4293th, tier 1 and 2 please!

Goltz

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3 hours ago, lordholland4293 said:

WG Soviet Paper Ships & reality 😂😧

The reality is that OP has most of them in his port...

How's that for reality?

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3 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

When people mix reality and fiction in a game like WOWS, it almost never ends well

You should see it if there's a game for an established IP like Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.  Get stuff wrong and the mob is out in force!

pitchforks.gif&f=1&nofb=1

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8 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

People aren't fine with Paper Russian Ships.

People were fine with Paper as f*** Georgia, Seattle, Buffalo, Montana, GK, FDG, Roon, Hindenburg, Mainz, Agir, Siegfried, Normandie, Lyon, Charles Martel, Saint-Louis, Henri IV, Kitakaze, Harugumo, Ibuki, Zao, etc.

tenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1

Looks like Double Standards to me.

Game.  Set.  Match.

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It's world of warships not world of historically correct ships :Smile_popcorn:Of course wargaming is historically accurate when it's convenient for them :Smile_smile:

Edited by LastRemnant

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6 hours ago, LastRemnant said:

It's world of warships not world of historically correct ships :Smile_popcorn:Of course wargaming is historically accurate when it's convenient for them :Smile_smile:

And history repeats itself again once more we begin at the beginning of a do over of epic rewind and rerun of continuous ship development that leads to a tedious exercise of futility.

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My two favourite ships in RU DD line sailed in real life: Gnevny and Tashkent. The absurd speed of the later was achieved in test, but with lighter turrets.

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16 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

People aren't fine with Paper Russian Ships.

People were fine with Paper as f*** Georgia, Seattle, Buffalo, Montana, GK, FDG, Roon, Hindenburg, Mainz, Agir, Siegfried, Normandie, Lyon, Charles Martel, Saint-Louis, Henri IV, Kitakaze, Harugumo, Ibuki, Zao, etc.

Looks like Double Standards to me.

I suspect the argument isn't just that they have paper ships, but the outright number and proportion of them compared to other lines.

For the sake of brevity in the following compilation, "fictitious" ships include those that had only a keel laying or were only partially completed before being broken up or otherwise disposed of, those that only saw drafts, those that were merely proposed (an idea talked of and a simple drawing made to illustrate), or any other "projects" that never saw the light of day.  All navies had, and continue to have many such examples of each, not just the Soviets.

In the Soviet research tech tree:

  • 7 of 8 ships in the battleship line are fictitious
  • Of 12 ships in the cruiser line, including those in the upcoming split,  8 of them fictitious
  • Half of the 12 ships in the destroyer tech tree were built and in fairly good numbers in some cases, generous by Soviet tech tree standards
  • The Orlan at Tier one is fictitious

Not including carriers since the Soviet line has none (for now...), the Soviet researchable tech tree consists of 33 gunnery ships, tied for the most with the Royal Navy and Imperial Japanese lines, and even one more than the United States Navy line:

  • 9 of the 33 RN ships are fictitious
  • 7 of the 33 IJN ship are fictitious
  • 6 of the 32 USN ships are fictitious
  • 22 of the 33 VMF ships are fictitious

It's a similar story with Premium and Resource ships.  While the Soviet P/R line doesn't have as many ships as the Japanese and Americans, it has almost twice as many as the British, and it has the same number of fictional ships as those from the other three nations combined:

  • 2 of the 14 RN ships are fictitious
  • 5 of the 33 IJN ships are fictitious  (here things get a bit fuzzy since there are multiple special ships derived from fictional "characters" in anime - HSF, ARP, etc. - but those were based on ships that were built and saw service IRL, so those weren't counted as fictitious.  The five that are counted were ships that definitely were not built or saw service at any point)
  • 3 of the 32 USN ships are fictitious
  • 10 of the 25 VMF ships are fictitious

So, of the 58 Soviet ships counted here that are in the game, 32 of them are fictional.  A roughly 55% ratio.

All of this from a navy who, quite frankly, was a minor participant in period.  The Dutch Navy in and around the East Indies saw more action than the Soviet navy during WWII.

Does that mean people shouldn't play and enjoy the Soviet ships in the game?  Of course not.  You can bet I do.  I've been playing and enjoying Soviet cruisers a lot lately.  However, it is reasonable to question the credibility of such filler, especially when you consider there are other minor navies in the game - as well as some major ones - that are nowhere near as fleshed out as the Soviet lines.

 

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@Kuckoo Paper is Paper.  It doesn't matter if it's a lot or a little.

It's still Fake Paper Ships.

 

People have the audacity to whine about Fake Russian Ships when they turn right around and are jumping for joy with Georgia, who is as fake as you can get.

Fake Mainz is fine, but Fake Pyotr Bagration isn't.

Fake Lenin wasn't fine, but people were okay with Siegfried, Agir, Odin as Fake Ships.

 

Double Standards.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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11 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

@Kuckoo Paper is Paper.  It doesn't matter if it's a lot or a little.

It's still Fake Paper Ships.

 

People have the audacity to whine about Fake Russian Ships when they turn right around and are jumping for joy with Georgia, who is as fake as you can get.

Fake Mainz is fine, but Fake Pyotr Bagration isn't.

Fake Lenin wasn't fine, but people were okay with Siegfried, Agir, Odin as Fake Ships.

 

Double Standards.

I agree that such one-sided views aren't really worth considering, but that wasn't the point I was addressing.

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Russia doesn't have any naval stories to be proud of, so they have to fantasize about their nonexistent navy in their game.  Stop picking on Russia and let WG do what they want with their game.

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On 6/13/2020 at 11:59 PM, lordholland4293 said:

Wish wargaming would watch its own country's documentary produced in Russia and forget about Russia paper ships. Go back to the basic for on improving and balancing the game, keep your veteran player and we will spend money, you want our money here is a tip open them. We All know how smolensk worked out. Why dont you just start selling tier 10 ships if you want new players to spend money 😂😧

You are not allowed to use WG and reality in the same sentence. (oops I just did) It violates the natural laws of the universe.

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