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Tim__2016

Bayard vs Mainz

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Which one is better these days. I know they each have their own quirks or utilities. I was waiting for the Bayard, but now the IFHE has changed things. Any opinions and why?

Thanks

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:etc_red_button:

I currently don’t have either but I’m leaning towards Mainz, In good part because historical reasons.

I’ve been collecting opinions in game for both ships, but I’ve seen almost no Bayards and several Mainz.

All Mainz COs I have talked to agree that it is a good ship.

The one Bayard I saw agreed that the ship is good.

Of course the main reference would be to point to LWM’s reviews but I’m interested in hearing the players opinions.

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Just got Mainz. Meh. Underwhelmed. Kinda wish I'd gotten Bayard. The French can dance in open water. The Mainz not so much.

Edited by thebigblue

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3 hours ago, Tim__2016 said:

Which one is better these days. I know they each have their own quirks or utilities. I was waiting for the Bayard, but now the IFHE has changed things. Any opinions and why?

Thanks

In terms of damage dealing the two are the best on the server right now for Tier VIII Premium Cruiser damage dealing.

DVQpw3r.jpg

 

Bayard's schtick is FR Cruiser mobility.  Engine Boost going with the occasional MBRB popped.  Pretty well rounded.  She's a real soft Cruiser though, BBs hit her and it's bad news as her Citadel is very pronounced.

Mainz's Citadel below.

co1tpl1.jpg

Bayard's below.

Jt49ADb.jpg

 

Bayard however is also quite sneaky.  With a Stealth Build she drops down to a wonderful 9.62km surface detection.  Mainz is like other German Crusiers, they suck in concealment.  Even with Stealth Build, Mainz is 12.02km surface detection.  That's BB concealment.

 

What Bayard has to help offset her terrible Citadel situation is FR Cruiser mobility and one of the sneakiest Cruisers in Tier VIII.  That mobility and being able to control engagements very easily with that fantastic stealth IMO gives room for skillful play.  But don't get hit...  Just remember that picture above of Bayard's Citadel.

 

Mainz's deal is raw HE Pens with the German 150mm x12.  IFHE isn't necessary.  Matter of fact, Mainz can HE Pen 38mm armor right out of the box, no IFHE needed, which is very important because that's the armor thickness of High Tier USN BB Deck Armor.  Meanwhile, normal 152mm HE in High Tier such as found on Bayard, Cleveland, Kutuzov, Chapayev can't HE Pen that, they cap off at 37mm even with IFHE.    In addition, because Mainz doesn't need IFHE to HE Pen lots of targets like Cleveland, Bayard, and the other normal High Tier CLs do, Mainz can simply tack on Demolition Expert and actually come up with a highly competitive blend of HE Pen capability and Fire Starting.  Example:

IFHE + DE Build Bayard:  37mm HE Pen, 8% Fire Chance

DE Build Bayard:  30mm HE Pen, 14% Fire Chance.

Having only 30mm HE Pen for a High Tier Cruiser is very bad news because you can't pen High Tier Battleship extremities and the upper armor belt / deck armor of FR & RN BBs, which are 32mm.

DE Build Mainz:  38mm HE Pen 10% Fire Chance

 

However, German Cruisers aren't agile.

 

Fitting Tool entries for Mainz & Bayard if you want to fool around with builds on them.  Artillery Chart below with both ships for the purpose of seeing their shell flight characteristics.  They're very similar.

skhCjlo.jpg

 

Either way, both are fantastic damage dealing Premium CLs and they go about racking up their numbers in their own ways.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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There's one other teensy little detail that Haze forgot to mention about Bayard: Her godawful firing angles. You can only get the bow turrets to fire 40 degrees off her aft and vice-versa, so that means that if you are out there wiggling your tush while blasting away at range, you've got a lot more wiggling to do to bring all four turrets to bear while kiting.

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I have both and have fun with both of them.

Mainz is tougher with a faster rate of fire and starts fires like a pyromaniac but can be spotted from orbit. (like all German Cruisers)

Bayard has much better mobility and turret rotation with longer ranged torpedoes and lower detectability.

However, if I had to choose only one to keep, it would be Mainz. (And I like French Cruisers)

Edited by ReddNekk
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6 hours ago, ReddNekk said:

I have both and have fun with both of them.

Mainz is tougher with a faster rate of fire and starts fires like a pyromaniac but can be spotted from orbit. (like all German Cruisers)

Bayard has much better mobility and turret rotation with longer ranged torpedoes and lower detectability.

However, if I had to choose only one to keep, it would be Mainz. (And I like French Cruisers)

Good points. I get nice damage numbers but I'm still getting big chunks removed regardless of angle in Mainz. The concealment is what it is. I'm shooting the amazing gunnery all the time anyway so the flare gives me away more than anything. I just wish it had a heal. Obviously that would break the ship but it would be so nice. I don't have one but from what Ive seen with Bayard it's way more agile and you have a chance to dodge. From your assessment it seems to be even more fragile than Mainz which sets up a frustrating scenario where I am wasd'ing my butt off only to catch a random shell that wipes out 3/4 of my health cuz reasons. I appreciate your post and feel I made a good decision selecting Mainz (and I too like French cruisers)

Edited by thebigblue

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13 hours ago, Tim__2016 said:

Which one is better these days. I know they each have their own quirks or utilities. I was waiting for the Bayard, but now the IFHE has changed things. Any opinions and why?

Thanks

Bayard is run and gun. Planes stay away.

Mainz is about blowing stuff up fast and dieing fast.. Planes are like, mee I will loose a few.

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Well, I just pulled the trigger on Mainz.

So far only sea trialed her on coop, I was expecting having to equip double rudder, but with only one seems responsive enough.

Need to test her further before deciding on double rudder or rudder+concealment.

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Thanks everyone,  I went with Mainz. I do like the french cruisers hard choice. They both kinda glass cannons. The plunging AP wrecks the Mainz and I am sure the Bayard would be the same. Definitely not OP, but has its merits use it to to strengths.

 I went with single rudder shift and concealment  for now, but I use double on Hindenburg. See how it goes.

I do like the quad torp setup and the 6k hyrdo. 

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