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Wil5_warrior

Playing DD on a board full of 12km radars.. thoughts?

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Between CV's, and a lineup of 5-6 Soviet 12km radar cruisers per team, playing DD has become incredibly difficult.   The presence of battlefield radar in the game has really proliferated in the last week, well beyond what it used to be.  DD players used to be able to keep their distance and wait out the occasional radar in order to cap, spot, or get within 7-10km for a torp launch, but with so many radars on the opposing team, and the high velocity rail gun ships they belong to,  dds have essentially become obsolete.  I am starting to see many more games where the cruisers or bbs have to cap because there are no DDs playing, or the DDs die very quickly.  Smoke shooting from inside 12km in a DD or squishy cruiser can end your game pretty quickly now.  Personally, I think all radar should be rolled back to under 10km, or maybe the DDs should be fitted with radar jamming consumables. 

Edited by Wil5_warrior
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It is really been this way since CV's.

My thought - don't play a DD.

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Soviet cruisers have bad maneuverability and short acting radar. They suck at shooting over islands.

So abuse islands to stay safe and spam those torps. You potentially will do very well for yourself. Always have an escape planned.

Edited by X15
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How to become a better DD player in 2 minutes:

Step 1: Identify cap circles on the map

Step 2: Don't go near it.

Literally the most simple advice but it always baffles me how many players fail this basic concept.

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Don't play high tier DDs in the first 2 weeks of a radar cruiser patch unless you are prepared for them, you know what you are getting into.

Edited by warheart1992
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5 minutes ago, Wil5_warrior said:

Between CV's, and a lineup of 5-6 Soviet 12km radar cruisers per team, playing DD has become incredibly difficult. 

Whilst this statement is true, some of us view it as a challenge. It is more difficult to DD these days but is still possible to do for those able to adapt. I would also say that it isn't so much the influx of RU radar as the proliferation of radar in general that may be the reason some of us see a decline in the DD population, (last night I saw a high tier game or 2 with no DD and a couple with just 1 or 2 per side).

8 minutes ago, jmanII said:

It is really been this way since CV's.

This statement just is not true, CVs may be the bane of many good folks but if anyone who plays the game says that the CV rework in any way decreased the DD population then they are wrong. I continue to see 3 to 5 DDs per match in the high tiers and even more in lower tiers.

And in the good advice category.....

4 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

How to become a better DD player in 2 minutes:

Step 1: Identify cap circles on the map

Step 2: Don't go near it.

Literally the most simple advice but it always baffles me how many players fail this basic concept.

 

3 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Don't play high tier DDs in the first 2 weeks of a radar cruiser patch unless you are prepared for them, you know what you are getting into.

 

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3 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

How to become a better DD player in 2 minutes:

Step 1: Identify cap circles on the map

Step 2: Don't go near it.

Literally the most simple advice but it always baffles me how many players fail this basic concept.

Don't forget  Step 3:  Ignore the team chat complaints about not capping. 

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Just now, SgtSpud said:

Whilst this statement is true, some of us view it as a challenge. It is more difficult to DD these days but is still possible to do for those able to adapt. I would also say that it isn't so much the influx of RU radar as the proliferation of radar in general that may be the reason some of us see a decline in the DD population, (last night I saw a high tier game or 2 with no DD and a couple with just 1 or 2 per side).

Its true for me.  It is the reason I don't play DDs anymore.

OP asked my thoughts, I gave it.

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3 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

How to become a better DD player in 2 minutes:

Step 1: Identify cap circles on the map

Step 2: Don't go near it.

Literally the most simple advice but it always baffles me how many players fail this basic concept.

^^^^^THIS

If you know your ranges of radar and hydro and you know what the enemy team has (which everyone does at the beginning of a match) and you are not changing how you play in reaction to those threats, then I hate to say it, but you gotta learn.

As a DD main, I have played quite a few battles even since the patch and still don't really have a problem.

Experience has taught me when to push, when to not and when radar'd, to COUNT so I know how long their radar is going to remain up.

Also, if people would focus the CRUISERS first, which lets be honest, SHOULD be the food for BBs currently because they are a huge threat, then everyone's lives get better in a battle.

Slow and steady, calculated placement and situational awareness can be VERY effective if you're a DD main.

-Hapa

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Its DD suppression... At high tiers, a DD's duties are reduced to spotting and praying your high caliber teammates sink something...

If not its over at the sound of the bell.

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Not really bothered by there being a CV in battle but yea, seeing battle after battle with so much radar (couple of weeks back was in a battle with 2 Missouri, 4 cruisers and a radar DD) when you play a DD gets very old very fast.

TBF is WG fixed radar to not work through islands then it wouldn't be any where near as annoying. 

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5 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Don't play high tier DDs in the first 2 weeks of a radar cruiser patch unless you are prepared for them, you know what you are getting into.

In general I don't mind radar when I play DD and I don't even mind CV, but yeah, matchmaking is distorted because of the Nevsky and the next couple of weeks are potentially going to be hell for any DD from Tier 8 up (and down to Tier 6 when the heavy branch goes live and everyone with enough XP on the Shchors grabs the Tallinn). Doesn't matter; I just recently finished the Swirski campaign so I'm done with playing nothing but T8+; it's time to come down for a while.

I played one Random battle in the Jutland last night and was very surprised NOT to find a Nevskypalooza. Maybe they were all off having a Nevsky 12 v 12 or something, IDK. :Smile-_tongue:

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I gave up DD's after coming back to the game and getting repeatedly obliterated by rocket planes.

So I switched to Cruisers and Battleships. At least against HE Smoke spammers I can try to run away and shoot back.

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12 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

In general I don't mind radar when I play DD and I don't even mind CV, but yeah, matchmaking is distorted because of the Nevsky and the next couple of weeks are potentially going to be hell for any DD from Tier 8 up (and down to Tier 6 when the heavy branch goes live and everyone with enough XP on the Shchors grabs the Tallinn). Doesn't matter; I just recently finished the Swirski campaign so I'm done with playing nothing but T8+; it's time to come down for a while.

I played one Random battle in the Jutland last night and was very surprised NOT to find a Nevskypalooza. Maybe they were all off having a Nevsky 12 v 12 or something, IDK. :Smile-_tongue:

I don't think any patch will surpass the "Go Navy" event, with pre nerf stealth radaring Seattles and Worcesters. Compared to what you had to endure in the first 2 weeks then, a Nevsky here and then isn't too bad, yet the point still stands. If you play on patch week with a ship that can be hard countered by the new line and aren't expecting to have a more difficult time it's a delusion at that point.

Edited by warheart1992

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11 minutes ago, wildgooseman said:

Not really bothered by there being a CV in battle but yea, seeing battle after battle with so much radar (couple of weeks back was in a battle with 2 Missouri, 4 cruisers and a radar DD) when you play a DD gets very old very fast.

TBF is WG fixed radar to not work through islands then it wouldn't be any where near as annoying. 

I agree with this island idea.  If radar and hydro only worked line of sight, that would be a lot better.

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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

I don't think any patch will surpass the "Go Navy" event, with pre nerf stealth radaring Seattles and Worcesters. Compared to what you had to endure in the first 2 weeks then, a Nevsky here and then isn't too bad, yet the point still stands. If you play on patch week with a ship that can be hard countered by the new line and aren't expecting to have a more difficult time it's a delusion at that point.

I am wondering if we are in the new meta, and this is just the way things will be from here on.  If that is the case, a big investment in a port full of DDs seems sadly misplaced. 

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If you're at tier X, play a Gearing, Halland, Shimkaze (with 20 km torps, although their speed and detection make them less useful), or, if you have the steel, a Somers.  They all have torps that can travel well over 12 km.  Look at the map.  On almost all of them, there is at least one island within 12 km of every cap that will almost certainly be a camping ground for a radar cruiser.  At the beginning of the game circle around the cap without going in it, and launch torps right next to the island where the cruiser will be camping.  You don't have to see it first.  Just assume it will be there, and launch as soon as your torps are loaded and you are positioned to get the torps past whatever little spit of sand or rocks juts out from the corner of the island.  Your target will probably have its bow facing your torps, so make sure you use a narrow spread, and launch all your racks in the same direction, instead of spreading them out to cover a larger area.  You will probably only get one or two hits per strike, but it's been my experience that those cruisers are very reluctant to give up their camping spots, even after eating a torp or two.  So if you can manage to circle behind them a bit, you can sometimes get your second wave of torps more less broadside.  And constantly check the range to make sure you get no closer than 12.5 km from the target, or, if you can't see it, from the corner of the island.

This is, of course, going to be a bit tougher from now on, since WG has completely nullified their standardization of radar ranges by introducing ships that can stealth radar.  You can still do it, but you'll have to blind fire your torps more often, unless the cruisers reveal themselves by firing guns.  And if they don't fire guns, they aren't contributing their firepower to their teams.

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I only cap if i think its safe to do so period.


If the team wants it capped sooner they can do it themselves.

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6 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

I don't think any patch will surpass the "Go Navy" event, with pre nerf stealth radaring Seattles and Worcesters.

I don't think I had a DD that was high tier enough to see all that. In fact, at that stage I barely had enough SHIPS which could see all that (and Tier 7 was still WG's golden boy, beating on T5 instead of getting hammered by T9). So if I was unaware of that occasion, you know why. 

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Had no issues.

You have to know your opponents though.
Assume all Mino's have radar until proven different.
Assume all Soviet Cruisers have Radar mod.
Assume all CV will attack only you.
Assume all Ships radar and hydro is never on cool-down.

Now that you assume the worse possible scenarios,  when the game starts look at the line up, and then the mini-map. DO NOT Rush in to a cap or even forward, head to a flank or island you can run with cover if you spot something wicked your way coming.

After you have seen all the threats possible on the mini-map then and only then create a battle plan (typically by 3 minutes in i can see what is where and where i need to go to counter) Now that I see the map and have the big picture look for the area with the least distance radar and go torp "at it" make it move so you or an ally can kill it.

Even better is if you can find a spot where you can torp and spot the evil long range radar ship as well, this allows for you and your team to pick on targets spotted. I cannot harp on how important the mini-map is. use it right and your chances for "you" having a good game goes up, I cannot promise a win there is just to many taters running around for that. But if you maintain an eye always on the mini-map your odds of having great games even in a loss goes way up.

Now as to the dd's to use:

Shima with 20k torps are again viable and ive been having fun with them again. Now when people get burned out on the long range radar ships and the newness i'll go back to 12k.

Halland, well its a AA beast and has nice torps and can knife fight if it has to.

Yugu, Ghost build it with torp reload,

Kity, is another option it is more maneuverable than Haru so can get out of a problem faster but be careful not to smoke in the open the 12k radar will destroy you.

Kleber is actually viable, its speed, guns and torps all make it a good ships "I F" you can sneak up on the enemy High Risk I reward or total failure play and requires the right map and spawn point.

Other than those 5 DD's, I would not want to be playing the t-9 and 10 games in a dd unless you know how to use a dd well and pay attention to the mini-map.

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43 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

How to become a better DD player in 2 minutes:

Step 1: Identify cap circles on the map

Step 2: Don't go near it.

Literally the most simple advice but it always baffles me how many players fail this basic concept.

So simple.  Better yet, see that cap circle, go 12.2 away from it's opposite side and be angled away to run and not eat torpedoes.  

Aside from a late game surprise, radar is so easily avoidable.  It's not like plane spam.  

Edited by Ubarad

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its less the 12km radars that concern me as a DD main, its the 10km ones that last close to a minute

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Either bring torpedos with more than 12km of range or get really skilled at the bait-and-run radar defeater maneuver. Be aware that sometimes radar boats will work together and "chain" radars extending times longer than you may expect. Aside for that, keep those buggers spotted so your heavy cruisers and battleships can smash them.

Edited by thebigblue

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Don't play a traditional low detect capping DD.  They are passe'.  Play an HE spamming DD from range and burn the radar cruisers.

side benefit...burn battleships

Edited by ClassicLib

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29 minutes ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Also, if people would focus the CRUISERS first, which lets be honest, SHOULD be the food for BBs currently because they are a huge threat, then everyone's lives get better in a battle.

I wholeheartedly agree, but,,,,, so many cruisers now have Hoses for a Rate of Fire and hide behind islands or in smoke and act as flameslingers, where you can't hit them.  And, when you can fire at them, the ridiculous Overpen mechanics TOO often results in little to no damage.  So many, many many times,,, its either not possible or a waste of time to focus on a cruiser(s).

So,,, they SHOULD be food for BBs,,,, but not so much anymore.

Occasionally I'll BLAP a cruiser in my BB, but nothing like it used to be or SHOULD be.  And no, I'm not a BB main.  I play all three classes equally.

 

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