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Endealon

A new player's experience ruined by CV

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Thank WG, or more accurately, blame WG for the Great Wreak aka the farce CV rework.

OP, we all, or most all, commiserate with new players who are getting into T4 play and being terrorized by two CVs a side battles at T4.

WG knows exactly what is going on but only cares to support their disastrous reworking of CVs.

Not much the players can do but vote with their Wallets (or quit, as you posit).

 

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I gets better past T4, not perfect but it does get much better. By the time you make it to T5 things start to improve against CVs, unless you are playing a destroyer. In a DD it's about T8 before you start getting ships somewhat capable of making a CV chose a different target. 

In this game there is a group of players that sit in very powerful ships at the lower tiers "seal clubbing". Some do it because they like winning easily, others do it because they like to make other people's game experience miserable. 

 

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option 4 move up the ladder to tier 5 and above. The problem with tier 4 is the ships do not have very good AA. As the tiers get higher you get better AA, but there still the planes and they get old. Also as you go to higher tiers chances of seeing cvs gets a little less.

Also there are players which played many games and they like to goto tier 4 and play a CV for the very reason ships have crap AA. Seal Clubbing abd happens in any game. The last note I guess it takes a CV player longer at tier 4 to get enough XP to move up the ladder to higher tiers. At least WG limited as far as I know tier 4 to 2 cvs each side it was 3 so there would be 6 cvs total per match.

At higher tiers usually you will only see 1 cv per side.

Edited by Tim__2016
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Just now, VeatherVitch said:

I gets better past T4, not perfect but it does get much better. By the time you make it to T5 things start to improve against CVs, unless you are playing a destroyer.

Thanks for the reply. I have thoroughly analyzed the AA systems of all BB Tier Vs and indeed there are improvements. But I didn't see improvements in that regard substantial enough to suspect that this problem disappears in T5, or that it could lessen to the point of not ruining the gaming experience. May I ask what statistics should I analyze to understand the improvement it says? On the other hand, I understand that from T5 an MR + 2 / -2 classification begins, which only seems to make the situation worse.

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7 minutes ago, VeatherVitch said:

I gets better past T4, not perfect but it does get much better.

 

Thanks for you response.

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I have a very strong feeling that you are an alternate account of someone who has in fact played this game for a while. 

I have no way to prove this but reading through your post leads me to this conclusion.

If I am wrong, I apologize.

To at least keep this constructive.  CV players will, for the most part, keep their distance from ships with strong AA.  If you enjoy BB's, I'd recommend USN Line or the RU Line.

9 hours ago, Endealon said:

I don't mind losing to a better player than me.

You were defeated by a player who has more experience in game, regardless of the ship.  Keep playing, watch replay's and become the better player.

 

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Hace 4 minutos, Tim__2016 dijo:

Opción 4 subir la escalera al nivel 5 y superior.

Gracias por tu respuesta.

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1 minute ago, Endealon said:

Thanks for the reply. I have thoroughly analyzed the AA systems of all BB Tier Vs and indeed there are improvements. But I didn't see improvements in that regard substantial enough to suspect that this problem disappears in T5, or that it could lessen to the point of not ruining the gaming experience. May I ask what statistics should I analyze to understand the improvement it says? On the other hand, I understand that from T5 an MR + 2 / -2 classification begins, which only seems to make the situation worse.

some games you are bottom tier and some games you are mid or top tier. Playing low tier ship does not always make the situation worse. Really gets into many variations of the match in the game and I might add your skill set to play the game.

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1 minute ago, HeadSplit120 said:

I have a very strong feeling that you are an alternate account of someone who has in fact played this game for a while. 

May I ask what makes you have that feeling?

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10 minutes ago, Endealon said:

But you know what popular wisdom says:

- A crack can sink a boat.

I haven't heard that one.

But I have heard that a ship is only as good as its crew. 

Don't play the blame game-187 battles doesn't cut it.  Are you running flags, camos, full builds, and skilled captains?  Have you read any reviews about your BBs or the CVs?  Just a few thoughts-enjoy the game!

If you get bored fast, this game may not be for you.  There's a lot to master.

 

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1 minute ago, Charon2018 said:

Don't play the blame game-187 battles doesn't cut it.  Are you running flags, camos, full builds, and skilled captains? 

None of those things works to face airplanes in this game. The planes here do not fit the current META and adequate countermeasures have not been implemented (at least in my experience up to tier IV). The skill requires instruments for its use, and in this case they are non-existent, beyond inefficient AA-RNG.

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2 minutes ago, Endealon said:

None of those things works to face airplanes in this game. The planes here do not fit the current META and adequate countermeasures have not been implemented (at least in my experience up to tier IV). The skill requires instruments for its use, and in this case they are non-existent, beyond inefficient AA-RNG.

For a "new", 187-battle WOWs player, you're blowing a lot of smoke up my fantail.

Sayonara.

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16 minutes ago, HeadSplit120 said:

ou were defeated by a player who has more experience in game, regardless of the ship. 

I have to respectfully differ on that. In cases where my BB dies from torpedo-spam, my ship does not die due to increased skill of the opposing player, but because my BB equips AA inefficiently and controlled by an AI-RNG independent of my skill. In other words: the CV player is no more skillful, but he can use his ability and I can't.

That is very different from when my BB dies in a 1 vs 1 matchup against another BB. Who aimed better? Who was positioned better? Who used his restoration skills at the right time? Who used the right ammunition at the right time?

If I lose in that situation, I don't care: just face a better player than me, but we both had access to the same instruments.

Edited by Endealon

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14 minutes ago, Charon2018 said:

I haven't heard that one.

But I have heard that a ship is only as good as its crew. 

Don't play the blame game-187 battles doesn't cut it.  Are you running flags, camos, full builds, and skilled captains?  Have you read any reviews about your BBs or the CVs?  Just a few thoughts-enjoy the game!

If you get bored fast, this game may not be for you.  There's a lot to master.

 

 

 

No one should be running  flags, camos, full builds, and skilled captains at tier 4.   Well maybe those who like to go clubbing do.

46 minutes ago, Endealon said:

Hello, first of all, thanks for giving me the opportunity to write here.

I am a new WoWS player and my first contact with this game was very positive.

 

Even people who have been here for a bit find CVs disgusting.

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Counters to CVs in order of general effectiveness:

1. Sticking together. I cannot emphasize this enough. Do not go gallivanting about on your own when there's an enemy CV on the map. Lone ships, especially BBs, are the single most desirable targets for CV players. If you stick together in clumps, especially with USN cruisers, your ships' AA fields will overlap, reinforcing your defense against air attacks, and may even discourage the CV player from attacking your group in the first place. Even if a determined CV player attacks your group anyway, the overlapping fields of AA fire will exact heavy losses on the squadrons, reducing the CV players power in the long run.

2...

3. Playing USN anything. This is, believe it or not, one of the USN's in-game strength. Thus, if you really feel like sticking it to CV players everywhere, focus playing USN ships.

4. Playing cruisers, especially AA-focused variants. AA-Defensive fire boosts the power of the ship's AA batteries, and putting up more flak clouds per burst.

How to dodge (a.k.a. How to give the worst target profile to the CV player possible):

  • For all plane types, you'll see when the squadron commits to an attack run when a small portion, two to three planes, break off and fly lower than the rest of the squadron. At this phase, the maneuverability of the squadron is drastically reduced in comparison to the normal flight mode. This is where you'll generally the best chance (albeit slim by normal measures) of out-maneuvering and dodging the incoming ordnance.
  • For torpedo bombers, the preferred target profile is on the beam (ahead of the direction of travel to account for lead), giving the best chance to land all torpedoes on target. Most CV players I have observed begin their attack runs at ~5kms away from the target ship, so when you see the torpedo bombers at that distance, begin to turn in or away from the bombers, giving them the narrowest target profile. This will give you the best chance to thread the incoming torpedo wave.
  • For dive bombers, the preferred target profile is along the center line, either from ahead or astern, with a preference for approaches from the stern. When the planes approach, start a half-turn to one direction. Once the squadron begins it's attack run, where they will fly up and then dive, throw the helm to full in the opposite direction. This will hopefully spoil the aim of the bombers as the CV attempts to track the evasion, and will swing the ship's mass out of the center of the bombers' aim.
  • For rocket planes, There is little you can do against this type, as they can approach from the beam or the center line and still be effective. If you can position them onto your center line however, using the same maneuver for dive bombers, you can actually dodge some of the rockets.

In general, play the CVs as well. Once you get accustomed to what works well and what doesn't for them, you can learn what to do against CVs as surface combatants.

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6 minutes ago, sulghunter331 said:

Counters to CVs in order of general effectiveness:

1. Sticking together.

Worst idea ever.   This is a belief popular by pro CV supporters.

They (CV supporters) don't have to deal with the torpedo soup that front line ships have to deal with.  

Grouping together will cause all DDs to focus on your position. 

 

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How WeeGee allows this to continue is beyond belief.   They should be firing their man in charge for this,  instead they are giving him awards.    Total lunacy.

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1 minute ago, madgiecool said:

Worst idea ever.   This a belief popular by pro CV supporters.

They (CV supporters) don't have to deal with the torpedo soup that front line ships have to deal with.  

Grouping together will cause all DDs to focus on your position. 

 

I didn't say clump together into unmanageable mobs. This is the purpose of proper formations, and giving a  bit of distance away from each member of the formation. Also, given that gun ship DDs are the popular DD type, encountering a DD captain that is even vaguely familiar with stealth torpedoing is an uncommon occurrence.

Also, it would be one of the goals of the CV player and screening units to spot incoming destroyers and torpedo waves, to give advance warning to the main group.

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26 minutes ago, Endealon said:

May I ask what makes you have that feeling?

The OP transitions from first person to third person in describing the problem. The OP states knowledge of concepts that would not be known so soon for a new player.

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Just now, Soshi_Sone said:

The OP transitions from first person to third person in describing the problem. The OP states knowledge of concepts that would not be known so soon for a new player.

I like reading.

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9 minutes ago, Endealon said:

I have to respectfully differ on that. In cases where my BB dies from torpedo-spam, my ship does not die due to increased skill of the opposing player, but because my BB equips AA inefficiently and controlled by an AI-RNG independent of my skill. In other words: the CV player is no more skillful, but he can use his ability and I can't.

That is very different from when my BB dies in a 1 vs 1 matchup against another BB. Who aimed better? Who was positioned better? Who used his restoration skills at the right time? Who used the right ammunition at the right time?

If I lose in that situation, I don't care: just face a better player than me, but we both had access to the same instruments.

actually your right in a way. In a BB in a random match you play your ship against other players in a bb, ca,cl, or dd.. The CV player plays their game against ships played by a person, but with AI controlled AA. You are not the first or last to complain about tier 4 and CV's. It is a training ground for CV players with ships which have crappy AA. It is what it is unless it gets changed.

Another option is to go play a CV then learn how to counter them.

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2 minutes ago, Tim__2016 said:

 You are not the first or last to complain about tier 4 and CV's. It is a training ground for CV players with ships which have crappy AA. 

Exactly, that's how I feel as a new player. And in Tier 5+ I just hoped to see the situation worsen. So I wrote this post.

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36 minutes ago, Endealon said:

Gracias por tu respuesta.

maayong laki kanimo   good luck to you

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1 minute ago, sulghunter331 said:

I didn't say clump together into unmanageable mobs. This is the purpose of proper formations, and giving a  bit of distance away from each member of the formation. Also, given that gun ship DDs are the popular DD type, encountering a DD captain that is even vaguely familiar with stealth torpedoing is an uncommon occurrence.

Also, it would be one of the goals of the CV player and screening units to spot incoming destroyers and torpedo waves, to give advance warning to the main group.

A game of follow the leader.   Thats super fun.    I think someone talking about why we should be happy subs were coming was talking about the gameplay getting stale.   Nothing like being stuck following which ever newb that barely knows where the fire button is let alone a smart place to sail to just because you need that 5 extra aa dps that maybe will shoot down 1 more plane.  

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