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Maddau

Soviet Stealth Radar and Wichita's Flaw

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Now that WG has reintroduced stealth radar to the game with the new Soviet cruisers, they should also address an inconsistency they created when the US cruiser radar ranges were changed to eliminate stealth radar several years ago.  All US heavy cruisers' radar ranges were normalized to 10 km, while US light cruisers all received 9 km ranges (except Atlanta).  The exception to that was the US tier 8 premium USS Wichita which was given the light cruiser radar because if it was given the standard US CA 10 km radar, it would have had the ability to stealth radar for 500 m (max concealment for Wichita 9.5 km).  So, the Wichita was equipped with the US CL radar, yet her consumables received none of the other benefits of a US CL (e.g. you have to choose between hydro and DFAA). 

The Wichita is a fine ship and a good T8 CA, but in the mind of many she is lacking something to make her a compelling premium.  The best way to remedy that would be to correct her flawed radar range and raise it to 10 km like every other US CA.  However, if she is going to remain a up gunned, up armored light cruiser, with 9 km radar, then that should apply to all of her consumables and DFAA should be moved to a dedicated slot, giving her consumables the utility of a US light cruiser.

Edited by Maddau
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1 minute ago, Maddau said:

Now that WG has reintroduced stealth radar to the game with the new Soviet cruisers, they should also address an inconsistency they created when the US cruiser radar ranges were changed to eliminate stealth radar several years ago.  All US heavy cruisers' radar ranges were normalized to 10 km, while US light cruisers all received 9 km ranges (except Atlanta).  The exception to that was the US tier 8 premium USS Wichita which was given the light cruiser radar because if it was given the standard US CA 10 km radar, it would have had the ability to stealth radar for 500 m (max concealment for Wichita 9.5 km).  So, the Wichita was equipped with the US CL radar, yet her consumables received none of the other benefits of a US CL (e.g. you have to choose between hydro and DFAA). 

The Wichita is a fine ship and a good T8 CA, but in the mind of many she is lacking something to make her a compelling premium.  The best way to remedy that would be to correct her flawed radar range and raise it to 10 km like every other US CA.  However, if she is going to remain a up gunned, up armored light cruiser, with 9 km radar, then that should apply to all of her consumables and DFAA should be moved to a dedicated slot, giving her consumables the utility of a US light cruiser.

Its not Russian soooooo......NO

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20 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

Its not Russian soooooo......NO

And Witchita was actually built and saw service.  So no liberties or creative license with it's performance, either.

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35 minutes ago, Maddau said:

Now that WG has reintroduced stealth radar to the game with the new Soviet cruisers, they should also address an inconsistency they created when the US cruiser radar ranges were changed to eliminate stealth radar several years ago.  All US heavy cruisers' radar ranges were normalized to 10 km, while US light cruisers all received 9 km ranges (except Atlanta).  The exception to that was the US tier 8 premium USS Wichita which was given the light cruiser radar because if it was given the standard US CA 10 km radar, it would have had the ability to stealth radar for 500 m (max concealment for Wichita 9.5 km).  So, the Wichita was equipped with the US CL radar, yet her consumables received none of the other benefits of a US CL (e.g. you have to choose between hydro and DFAA). 

The Wichita is a fine ship and a good T8 CA, but in the mind of many she is lacking something to make her a compelling premium.  The best way to remedy that would be to correct her flawed radar range and raise it to 10 km like every other US CA.  However, if she is going to remain a up gunned, up armored light cruiser, with 9 km radar, then that should apply to all of her consumables and DFAA should be moved to a dedicated slot, giving her consumables the utility of a US light cruiser.

The new Cruisers might have stealth radar but they also dont have the same radar time that they USN ships have. 

PS I understand people want prem ships to be good/op but when WG try's to make ships that are ok people want them to changed and this just happens over and over. 

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39 minutes ago, Maddau said:

Now that WG has reintroduced stealth radar to the game with the new Soviet cruisers, they should also address an inconsistency they created when the US cruiser radar ranges were changed to eliminate stealth radar several years ago.  All US heavy cruisers' radar ranges were normalized to 10 km, while US light cruisers all received 9 km ranges (except Atlanta).  The exception to that was the US tier 8 premium USS Wichita which was given the light cruiser radar because if it was given the standard US CA 10 km radar, it would have had the ability to stealth radar for 500 m (max concealment for Wichita 9.5 km).  So, the Wichita was equipped with the US CL radar, yet her consumables received none of the other benefits of a US CL (e.g. you have to choose between hydro and DFAA). 

The Wichita is a fine ship and a good T8 CA, but in the mind of many she is lacking something to make her a compelling premium.  The best way to remedy that would be to correct her flawed radar range and raise it to 10 km like every other US CA.  However, if she is going to remain a up gunned, up armored light cruiser, with 9 km radar, then that should apply to all of her consumables and DFAA should be moved to a dedicated slot, giving her consumables the utility of a US light cruiser.

If Wichita had stealth radar it would be way too strong.

Soviet cruisers don't have the power to fully take advantage of stealth radar, its still a stupid mechanic, but not game-breakingly so.

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1 hour ago, Shigure_DD said:

The new Cruisers might have stealth radar but they also dont have the same radar time that they USN ships have. 

Incorrect.  The T10 Soviet heavy cruisers' radar have 30 s duration.  The duration of the Wichita is also 30 s. 

EDIT: Double checked - Moskva: 30 s, Alex Nevsky: 30 s, Petropalovsk: 15 s.  Apologies for my confusion. 

Edited by Maddau
Corrected new CA radar duration.

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I only have the tallin for the ca line, but good luck trying to take advantage of your "stealth" radar. It doesn't matter if you can stealth radar if the duration is awful. Also the al nevsky cannot stealth radar. Not even close 

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2 minutes ago, eagle_lance said:

I only have the tallin for the ca line, but good luck trying to take advantage of your "stealth" radar. It doesn't matter if you can stealth radar if the duration is awful. Also the al nevsky cannot stealth radar. Not even close 

Unless they nerf their concealment just before release, the heavy cruisers will have stealth radar.  If they do nerf their max concealment to > or = 12 km, then I will withdraw my request.

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21 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

If Wichita had stealth radar it would be way too strong.

Soviet cruisers don't have the power to fully take advantage of stealth radar, its still a stupid mechanic, but not game-breakingly so.

Have to agree.  

Sov cruisers do have an overreaching radar but it is so short in duration it verges on uselessness.  And others don't see what you see until a few seconds after you turn it on, and some of those people take more time than others to react when the target does finally appear - if they react at all.

But yes - and as someone who plays cruisers regularly - this game was better off without radar in the first place.

 

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9 minutes ago, Maddau said:

Unless they nerf their concealment just before release, the heavy cruisers will have stealth radar.  If they do nerf their max concealment to > or = 12 km, then I will withdraw my request.

Wooster stealth radar was actually an issue. There was 0.9km between wooster's detect and its radar range. It also had a long duration radar and fast fire rate. This newest stealth radar is a non-issue. DD is my most played class and I've played the majority of my clan battles and kots games in dds. I would love for the enemy to greed after me with their short duration radar. 

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16 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Sov cruisers do have an overreaching radar but it is so short in duration it verges on uselessness.

As I've already pointed out, unless the duration is changed at last moment (always possible), the duration of the Petropavlosk is 30 s, as witnessed in several WIP test videos.  This matches the Wichita.

I just noted that WoWs Fitting Tool has 15 s duration for both Petro and Riga.  Perhaps they are aware of a duration nerf that I am not. 

EDIT: Okay, I have confirmed that 15 s is the duration of the Petropavlosk, half of the Moskva's so the duration of their stealth radar is rather short (18 s with upgrade).  However, I still have not changed my opinion that the Wichita should either get 10 km radar or the full suite of US CL T8 consumables.

Edited by Maddau
Confirmed 15 s Soviet CA radar duration.

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2 minutes ago, eagle_lance said:

Wooster stealth radar was actually an issue. There was 0.9km between wooster's detect and its radar range. It also had a long duration radar and fast fire rate. This newest stealth radar is a non-issue. DD is my most played class and I've played the majority of my clan battles and kots games in dds. I would love for the enemy to greed after me with their short duration radar. 

Wichita's reload is 10 s, so she cannot be described as fast firing.  At most you can get 4 salvos off during her radar duration.  

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1 minute ago, Maddau said:

Wichita's reload is 10 s, so she cannot be described as fast firing.  At most you can get 4 salvos off during her radar duration.  

Sure but with the Russian ca's can get off 2 salvos at most with their very short duration radars

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1 hour ago, eagle_lance said:

I only have the tallin for the ca line, but good luck trying to take advantage of your "stealth" radar. It doesn't matter if you can stealth radar if the duration is awful. Also the al nevsky cannot stealth radar. Not even close 

This, the ships with the stealth radar have extremely short up times for it as in one or maybe two volleys.

Edited by BrushWolf

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44 minutes ago, Maddau said:

Incorrect.  The T10 Soviet heavy cruisers' radar have 30 s duration.  The duration of the Wichita is also 30 s. 

WG doesn't like to be accused of Russian Bias.  If the only reason Wichita was not given the appropriate 10 km radar range was to prevent stealth radar, and now it is again okay to have stealth radar in the game, what other reason is there to not correct Wichita's radar inconsistency?  I simply do not believe that this change will make her OP, but that is what the PTS is for.

Uh, no.  The CLs have 30 second radar, not the CAs.  The CAs have 15 second radar, 18 if you use Surveillance Radar Modification 1.  

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1 minute ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

Uh, no.  The CLs have 30 second radar, not the CAs.  The CAs have 15 second radar, 18 if you use Surveillance Radar Modification 1.  

Right, so the Moskva and Alex Nevsky have 30 s duration.  I corrected the error in a later post above.

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