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Caine_Mutiny

Alexander Nevsky -- First Impressions?

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After a day of playing, what are your impressions of the Russian light cruiser Alexander Nevsky?

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Here are my impressions after going 4-2 the first day (first game was a waste as I had an improper setup).

Very strong, bordering on OP.  I can burn ships to the ground at 20km.  I can angle and out-citadel most ships at mid-range due to ROF.  Good AA.  No opportunity (or need) to use torps.  Radar is a big plus.

Great support ship, but can take out any boat in the game under the right circumstances.  Just remember to angle when needed. 

A keeper, and very fun to play. 

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IHFE not needed (I am not running it).  Regular HE can penetrate 30mm armor. 

Use DE in your captain build and add India X-Ray and Victor Lima flags for 17% chance of fire.  ROF is 6 seconds, so fires will start very quickly.

Edited by Caine_Mutiny

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I call her Bigensk.

Edited by Bill_Halsey
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I easily took out a "Smolensk" in my last game with her.  Set on fire first, then citadeled with AP.

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Played 3 games this morning (all losses...) and LOVE this ship!  No real surprise, since I love the Chapayev and Donskoi, and this plays like a more OP version of those.  I'm using the range mod, which gives 22km range,  and it is nice to be able to reach out and touch someone.  I had no problems hitting people at range, which also kept me pretty safe from people trying to kill me.  Even though the games were losses, I didn't die in any of them.  I came pretty close, but held out. I had at least 1 million potential damage in each game.

In each of the games, I ended up holding a flank basically on my own.  The range, speed of the shells, and reload let you easily engage multiple enemies and tie them down.  The rate of fire gets to people, and causes them to hesitate and/or turn back.  Radar and hydro let you counter DDs that are trying to push.  The ship's speed lets me dictate the engagement.  In the beginning on my second game, I started to get annoyed at the Shimakaze next to me for not pushing up ahead.  Then I realized that I was doing almost 38 knots and was just keeping up with the full speed Shima.

The AA is pretty decent too.  It's not enough to shut down CVs (Hah!) but it's enough for them to look for easier targets.  The ship is fast enough that you can almost outrun plane dropped torpedoes.

When I got the Moskva, I was disappointed since it played so differently than the previous Russian cruisers.  The Nevsky is a much better Tier X light cruiser, so I'm glad to see this change.  It's an open water Worchester.  The ship is definitely OP though, so I suggest everyone enjoys it as much as possible before it gets nerfed.

Edited by SeaGladius
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19 hours ago, Caine_Mutiny said:

IHFE not needed (I am not running it).  Regular HE can penetrate 30mm armor. 

Use DE in your captain build and add India X-Ray and Victor Lima flags for 17% chance of fire.  ROF is 6 seconds, so fires will start very quickly.

IFHE...hmm.   You need IFHE to pen high tier BBs armor since a lot of it is 32mm.   So is that direct damage better or is doubling the fire chance, which can be healed back better?  Thanks.

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I'll rather invest more on optimizing AA firepower, than over-optimizing main gun parameters in range or firepower, cause it seems a little too redundant to me.

Demolition is still a viable choice, but quick reload & adrenaline rush are a must. IFHE is optional, though. Because despite how excellent the main gun ballistics are to pen other cruiser armors, slower rate of fire is a struggle at close-medium range compared to Minotaur & Worcester.

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My first impressions of the ship are its guns are very good despite their low DPM. The AP is very effective at most ranges against cruisers and is good at mid to close range against battleships (not that you'd ever want to be close with this thing). Its armor is horrendously bad. Battleships will have no problem getting citadels on you when you're bow in or broadside. Even when you're angled, they will more often than not get very large pen damage even if they don't hit the citadel. It has a gigantic size so it's very easy to hit. It handles badly, though it is very fast in a straight line. The radar is nice, but the accuracy of the guns and low amount of shells it fires means you're unlikely to kill a destroyer alone if it's at 12km. That said, the shell velocity does somewhat make up for it.

Overall, I wouldn't even come close to calling the ship overpowered. It has a lot of weaknesses and a few strengths (namely the guns). Basically, it's well balanced. But keep in mind you're basically forced to stay further away from enemy ships until later in the game. I'm not sure how some of the people here have come to the conclusion that it's overpowered (maybe they just say it because it's Russian), but don't expect to be tanking hits and bouncing shells in this thing. You're 100% long range fire support until later in the game. A bit like Henri IV.

However, I do have to say that I don't believe this kind of ship is healthy for the game. There's no need for more HE from long range, though the fact that it has only 8 guns does make it better in that regard than some of its counterparts. I believe a better design for this ship would have been an AP only version with improved penetration angles. That would have been far less detrimental to the game and probably more fun to play. I wouldn't have minded the HE spam if there weren't so many other ships in the game that do the same thing (Yoshino, Moskva, Henri IV, Smolensk, Colbert, Worcester, Goliath, Conqueror, Thunderer, etc.).

Anyway, my verdict on the ship is that no, it is not overpowered, but it is unhealthy for the game (though the same can be said for Venezia even though it has no HE, but that's another argument for another day). It doesn't handle incoming fire well at all, but its guns are extremely good. If you like the sort of "glass cannon" gameplay, go ahead and get the ship. If you prefer a ship that can actually take a hit and plays similarly, play Henri IV.

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I’m glad to see that you don’t think it’s OP.  I’d hate for it to get nerfed!  I haven’t had much problem with incoming fire.  As long as you stay at range, stay angled, pay attention to your Priority Target indicator and maneuver (WASD), you mitigate a lot of that incoming fire.  It does turn like an oil tanker, so you need to plan out your turns or you will lose a bunch of your health quickly.  That’s all standard Russian Cruiser gameplay though.

I have spec’ed into IFHE, and that has been helpful for getting consistent damage against BBs.

This is just a very comfortable ship to play. Maybe that’s why I feel like it’s OP.  Moskva and Hindenburg had DPM so low that I didn’t feel like I had much impact on the battle.  In Nevsky, people react when I open up on them.  Des Moines has DPM, but you have to get so close to use it, and islands aren’t always available, so it’s much more tricky to use.

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On 6/11/2020 at 8:23 AM, SeaGladius said:

Played 3 games this morning (all losses...) and LOVE this ship!  No real surprise, since I love the Chapayev and Donskoi, and this plays like a more OP version of those.  I'm using the range mod, which gives 22km range,  and it is nice to be able to reach out and touch someone.  I had no problems hitting people at range, which also kept me pretty safe from people trying to kill me.  Even though the games were losses, I didn't die in any of them.  I came pretty close, but held out. I had at least 1 million potential damage in each game.

In each of the games, I ended up holding a flank basically on my own.  The range, speed of the shells, and reload let you easily engage multiple enemies and tie them down.  The rate of fire gets to people, and causes them to hesitate and/or turn back.  Radar and hydro let you counter DDs that are trying to push.  The ship's speed lets me dictate the engagement.  In the beginning on my second game, I started to get annoyed at the Shimakaze next to me for not pushing up ahead.  Then I realized that I was doing almost 38 knots and was just keeping up with the full speed Shima.

The AA is pretty decent too.  It's not enough to shut down CVs (Hah!) but it's enough for them to look for easier targets.  The ship is fast enough that you can almost outrun plane dropped torpedoes.

When I got the Moskva, I was disappointed since it played so differently than the previous Russian cruisers.  The Nevsky is a much better Tier X light cruiser, so I'm glad to see this change.  It's an open water Worchester.  The ship is definitely OP though, so I suggest everyone enjoys it as much as possible before it gets nerfed.

Exactly what makes it better than the 220 mm Moskva. What is your caliber and captain skills ? With the enhanced fire flags I'm up to 12.5% fire chance, using DE. I think that is the downfall of Moskva then.

I'm at 35% win rate in 200 battles, have about 250K XP. Usually knocked out in 5 minutes.

Edited by Ericson38

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The Nevsky has a couple things that I prefer.  The first is the concealment.  With full concealment build, the Nevsky has 12.8 km concealment, which is not great, but it's enough that I'm not the first thing spotted.  Also, it's close enough to my radar range that when DDs spot me, they often bug out quickly.

Second, the reload is quicker, so I can put more fire on target faster, and can respond to pop-up targets faster.  In the Moskva, I always felt like I couldn't do enough damage to people for them to really care about it.  Meanwhile, I was getting focus fired by everyone that could shoot at me.  I played a game this morning that had 2 Stalingrads on the other team.  Every time they showed themselves, they were focused by everyone.  Meanwhile, I could angle against him and completely mitigate his AP, and his HE didn't do much.  Each of his shots is probably more punishing than each of my shots, but it's penetration value is overkill.  Meanwhile, I just get a lot more shots than he does, so the efficiency of my shots is better, if that makes sense.

My caliber, is that I'm a slightly below average player, with 1600 games played and a 49% win rate.  So feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt, or to ignore it completely.  I'm running Priority Target, Preventative Maintenance, Expert Loader, Adrenaline Rush, Superintendent, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert,  and IFHE.  Preventative Maintenance because I was losing my engines a lot before I ran that.  Expert Loader just because I had a single point left over.  Demo Expert to compensate for the loss of fire chance caused by IFHE, but the more consistent damage of IFHE more than offsets the loss of fire damage.  I think the other skills are self explanatory.  Also, I run the range mod, because I like being able to shoot people at 22 km.  That seems more useful to me than getting my reload from 6 seconds to 5.3 seconds.

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18 hours ago, Ericson38 said:

I'm at 35% win rate in 200 battles, have about 250K XP. Usually knocked out in 5 minutes.

If you're getting knocked out in 5 minutes, then you're playing too aggressively.  I've only played 20 games, and I've only died 6 times.  Even in horrible defeats, I'm usually one of the last on my team to die.  I often start battles at 1/2 speed, and just leisurely move up behind one of my team's DDs.  I don't try to use the radar early.  If you do, you're going to be too close to the enemy, and get blapped.  Instead, I let the DDs do their own spotting, and open up with HE to push the enemy DD back.  You will attract fire at this point, so you need to play with your speed and angling, and probably turn out.  Nevsky is a kiter.  Your gun angles are awesome when shooting over your shoulder, so use that.  You want to keep the range high, since you're still pretty accurate at those ranges, while your opponents aren't.  But, it's also important to not just run away, or you won't have any impact.  It's just my opinion, but it's better to be too timid than too aggressive.  As you get to know the ship's capabilities better, you can dial in the timidness/aggression balance.

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4 hours ago, SeaGladius said:

The Nevsky has a couple things that I prefer.  The first is the concealment.  With full concealment build, the Nevsky has 12.8 km concealment, which is not great, but it's enough that I'm not the first thing spotted.  Also, it's close enough to my radar range that when DDs spot me, they often bug out quickly.

Second, the reload is quicker, so I can put more fire on target faster, and can respond to pop-up targets faster.  In the Moskva, I always felt like I couldn't do enough damage to people for them to really care about it.  Meanwhile, I was getting focus fired by everyone that could shoot at me.  I played a game this morning that had 2 Stalingrads on the other team.  Every time they showed themselves, they were focused by everyone.  Meanwhile, I could angle against him and completely mitigate his AP, and his HE didn't do much.  Each of his shots is probably more punishing than each of my shots, but it's penetration value is overkill.  Meanwhile, I just get a lot more shots than he does, so the efficiency of my shots is better, if that makes sense.

My caliber, is that I'm a slightly below average player, with 1600 games played and a 49% win rate.  So feel free to take anything I say with a grain of salt, or to ignore it completely.  I'm running Priority Target, Preventative Maintenance, Expert Loader, Adrenaline Rush, Superintendent, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert,  and IFHE.  Preventative Maintenance because I was losing my engines a lot before I ran that.  Expert Loader just because I had a single point left over.  Demo Expert to compensate for the loss of fire chance caused by IFHE, but the more consistent damage of IFHE more than offsets the loss of fire damage.  I think the other skills are self explanatory.  Also, I run the range mod, because I like being able to shoot people at 22 km.  That seems more useful to me than getting my reload from 6 seconds to 5.3 seconds.

Thanks. By caliber I meant your main gun caliber. My detection range is 14.5, so to keep myself back further, I took the long range gun option versus the faster reload shorter range gun. I'm staying in the game a little longer, but not much, maybe two more minutes. With Moskva, I finish either at the bottom or one off the bottom 95% of the time. The fire chance with IFHE was down to 10.5%, so I took a T9 Russian BB captain that does not have IFHE but did have concealment and DE and put him in there. Now fire chance is 19%. Will see how that goes.

Playing to not get hit is not much fun, whereas the Russian T6-T9 BBs are great.

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12 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

Playing to not get hit is not much fun, whereas the Russian T6-T9 BBs are great.

Nevsky has 180mm guns; same as Donskoi.  I think that playing to not get hit is immensely rewarding.  I'm using one of the ship's strengths (it's range) to offset it's weakness (it's armor).  If I do it well, then I live to shoot some more, and if I don't, then I get deleted.  But that's just me.  This ship matches my playstyle, and so I'm a fanboy, but everyone has their own preferences, and there is nothing to say that mine is better than theirs.

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1 hour ago, SeaGladius said:

Nevsky has 180mm guns; same as Donskoi.  I think that playing to not get hit is immensely rewarding.  I'm using one of the ship's strengths (it's range) to offset it's weakness (it's armor).  If I do it well, then I live to shoot some more, and if I don't, then I get deleted.  But that's just me.  This ship matches my playstyle, and so I'm a fanboy, but everyone has their own preferences, and there is nothing to say that mine is better than theirs.

I actually enjoy playing Brindisi that way, but the guns do way more damage for me at 19 km than the Moskva ever did. Brindiso has a 12.5 km detection, so it is a sweetspot. I just had a 120K damage battle in it yesterday, was thinking I don't have a functioning brain anymore with Moskva results. I rarely use its smoke or torps, it hits real hard all the time. You know it when they aren't looking for you. With Moskva, I am being pursued constantly, and once in the fight (over me having the radar I guess) there is no contest in a T10 battle.

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Nevski is insanely fun to play. That range. That AP. That reload. Those torps. I mean, this ship has great utility. I've successfully rushed Montanas, maneuvered onto the broadside of moskvas, straight out deleted smolensks in a few citadels, blapped a cheeky venezia who thought broadsiding a light criser was safe, and rained down misery and destructions on DDs from 16km away, landing shells on every salvo. 

The only problem is the inevitable nerfing and end to my fun. :(

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This morning I held down an entire flank by myself.  Now the enemy flanking force was only 2 DDs, but I tied up 2/3 of their DDs for the entire game, which let the rest of my team mop up.  I survived with only a sliver of health, which was due mostly to luck and the arrival of my teammates.

Even if the ship doesn’t get nerfed, I expect people will start paying more attention to it.

Edited by SeaGladius

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Only 4 games in with a 2-2 record, still in the very early stages of figuring this ship out.  After 3 games I respec'd my captain and took IFHE, as I was not getting consistent damage nor was I starting fires (I have the WORST RNG).  I may tinker with the build some more, but with IFHE+DE+flags I can get the fire chance back to 10.5% which is not much less than the stock 13%, and with the RoF upgrade in slot 6 bringing the reload down to 5.3 I don't see much difference in fire starting though I haven't done the math to compare theoretical fires per minute.  Depending on how this goes I may flip and try a full firebug build... Not sure yet.  I see a ton of potential with this ship, given the range and ballistics.  WASD hacks are your best friend.  I suspect this thing will be a potential damage magnet, as BB drivers will see it as a squishy HE spammer and won't be able to resist the urge to try to dev strike it. 

Will have to play some more games in it, get a better feel... So far I like what I've seen.

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On 6/24/2020 at 8:57 AM, SeaGladius said:

Even if the ship doesn’t get nerfed, I expect people will start paying more attention to it.

People are definitely paying more attention to the Nevsky.  I’m almost constantly being targeted by someone whenever I open fire.  It’s forced me to play more cautiously, and the impact I can have on the game has suffered as a result.  I still love to play this ship, but the honeymoon is definitely over.

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My take on Nevsky is that it has an exceedingl high skill floor, but if you master it it is beyond OP.  I don't see how you could not have fun in this boat.  It has so many tools -- I pay it like a tashkent, and well I am up to 167k average dmg (all solo) with 2400 PR in it over 41 games.  Its just broken in many ways, but there is a skill gap that will prevent it from being crucified like smolensk.  I believe lower skilled players will suffer greatly in the boat.  It gets punished for misspositioning or greed heavily....I have a bunch of videos if you want to see how i play it.  I mean  can HE spam, tank, and brawl in it...it isn't just a long range or short range bote.

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After playing 40ish games, I no longer think the Nevsky is OP.  It is definitely a strong ship, and fun to play.  But people understand what it can do now, and prioritize it whenever I am spotted.  Since the arcs are so flat and the range so long, it’s hard to effectively use island cover to stay unspotted.  This has definitely had an affect on my play, requiring more conservative play at times, and limited my impact on the game.  It’s forced me to expand my play style a bit too though, since you will need to take more risks to stay relevant.  That is the real fun of this ship; finding the balance between being too aggressive and getting deleted, or being too passive and doing very little for your team.

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