Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
jags_domain

Do you have a Vanguard?

37 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

3,434
[SGSS]
Members
6,224 posts

Sea Rapter was talking about Vanguard and saying it was good.  All I read is it stinks and so on.

I have a habit of liking what other don't.  I know Mass is better but if you have one do you like it?  Is it a value?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
582
[RTXN]
Banned
1,416 posts

I got my Vanguard for free in the British BB event.

The guns are a problem - Hood/QE/Warspite guns at tier VIII are just not very good.  Firing angles are atrocious!

Maneuvers similar to a cruiser, but you need to in order to minimize broadside time in order to get the rear turrets in action....if you dare.

Add in a above waterline citadel...yuck

Glad I got her because of historical aspects (she was the last BB built in the world).

For the price Kii, Tirpitz and Massachusetts are a better investment.

Would rather play North Carolina, Alabama or Bismarck in addition to the above over Vanguard.

I do not recommend her.

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/175302-premium-ship-review-113-vanguard/

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,933
[RLGN]
Members
16,241 posts
28,133 battles
18 minutes ago, jmanII said:

Glad I got her because of historical aspects (she was the last BB built in the world).

Pretty much got it because this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
124
Beta Testers
648 posts
1,873 battles

I hate it. I was sold on people saying it was a t8 Warspite, but that was total [edited]. You can't use the rear guns because it has a massive cit, and it's guns are anemic anyway.

Basically, the main aspect of a BB, Vanguard is terrible at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,583
[ARS]
Beta Testers
6,555 posts
6,443 battles

I have it.  Got it from a British event, DDs I think, rarely play it.  Thunderer is better in about every way.

Edited by Helstrem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
225
[CRUEL]
Members
550 posts
10,190 battles

I hit one yesterday and got 4 citadel's in my Tallinn against it. If it cant go one on one with a same tier cruiser I would say probably not worth it. Remember you can get Odin cheap if you wait. Or use doubloons to compete it ahead of time and get steel from the directives. Just a thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
648
[P-V-E]
Members
1,658 posts

If you are a bit of a lazy BB player who often gets tunnel vision and find it hard to play BB's that require lots of manoeuvring to get the best out of them, then there are plenty of better ships for you at tier VIII that will help with your shortcomings.

 

I would say IF you can make Gascogne work (excluding secondary's and its overall speed) you are probably well on your way to being able to make Vanguard work, especially if you can also make a bottom tiered QE/WS work too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
389
[META_]
[META_]
Members
1,306 posts
32 minutes ago, Prkl8r said:

I hate it. I was sold on people saying it was a t8 Warspite, but that was total [edited]. You can't use the rear guns because it has a massive cut, and it's guns are anemic anyway.

Basically, the main aspect of a BB, Vanguard is terrible at.

Oh my... i really dont like Warspite, so Vanguard isnt good. And for collecting purpose i was willing to take her to my dock.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
402
Members
925 posts
5,110 battles

Huge citadel and god awful firing arcs make it a hard pass. They would of been better off giving Hood an a-historical refit and T8+ plating and using that as a premium instead.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
443 posts
451 battles

Wait until they give it away for free, or you could always try Right Guard instead, which is actually sorta the opposite, just ‘cause it fights stink.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10,397
[INTEL]
Members
13,459 posts
39,140 battles
4 hours ago, jags_domain said:

Sea Rapter was talking about Vanguard and saying it was good.  All I read is it stinks and so on.

I have a habit of liking what other don't.  I know Mass is better but if you have one do you like it?  Is it a value?

It was good before the ReBork since it used to have actual AA and not the current placebo AA. Unfortunately it requires stealth to work well, and since the game is flooded with Sky Griefers, I don't play Vanguard. In the current Cancer-plagued meta, Massachusetts is better.  

  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,220
[SIM]
Members
5,849 posts
9,315 battles

She's uncomfortable to play thanks to having some of the worst gun angles in the game. In addition her protection is suspect and she doesn't have any notable gimmicks. I'd choose Duke of York over Vanguard almost every time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
107
[ARRSE]
Members
218 posts
1,407 battles

I do ok in Vanguard, but you do get WASD cramp in your fingers. Mine (I have them on EU and RU) seem to suffer a disproportional amount of T10 games, so rare to have much fun when even some DDs can gun you down.

 

Vanguard is a sad travesty of what it could/should have been in game, given that it was probably the most durable and advanced BB built. I'd have preferred to see it as a strong T9, with its heavy armour, high speed and radar-controlled guns. However, entirely typical of the way WG airbrushes out historical reality where it conflicts with their marketing meta.

Edited by Turbogerbil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
247 posts

I play mine like I would a Super-Heavy Cruiser and its pretty nice. However, I'm a cruiser player that sometimes plays battleships, my guess is coming from battleships to her is less appealing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
199
[ASRN]
Beta Testers
796 posts
7,268 battles

It's not bad.  It's just mediocre compared to the other T8 BB's I have/had.  I forgot it was even there.  Eventually, I just sold it for credits. It might appear in a Christmas crate again. Oh well.

Edited by Ann_Darrow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
767
[NUWES]
Members
3,431 posts
12,831 battles
16 hours ago, jags_domain said:

Sea Rapter was talking about Vanguard and saying it was good.  All I read is it stinks and so on.

I have a habit of liking what other don't.  I know Mass is better but if you have one do you like it?  Is it a value?

I saw @SeaRaptor's video. It doesn't stink. It isn't a great ship either though. It's an average ship that is either good or bad depending on how well it is captained. Personally I think its qualities hinder a bit more than they help but not enough to discourage getting it. It is basically a T9 BB hull with T6-T7 BB guns (basically Warspite/Queen Elizabeth). You can also think of it as Hood 1 tier up, with more durability and basically the same guns. 

Pluses: It is a tough ship (lots of HP) with good AA. IT's decently quick for a BB and has good rudder shift (not so much on the turn radius though). It is fairly accurate for an 8 gun BB. 

Minuses:

1. It's firepower isn't that great. It is better than Warspite but not markedly so. It has small caliber guns for the tier, fewer of them, AND they are VERY poorly placed. RIchelieu has the same caliber and number of guns but they are FAR better placed and the penetrate better (frequently overpenetrate) but accuracy is worse. Bismarck and Tirpitz have the same number of guns and layout but their aft turret arcs are better. Their turtlebacks also allow them to expose their sides enough to fire without getting citadeled. Roma has same-sized guns, but more of them, with better penetration (overpens again) AND in a better layout. 

2. Durability is nothing special despite the large HP pool. The high HP pool is let down by dreadful firing arcs for the aft guns. You have to expose a LOT of side to get those aft guns to fire and the margin between enough to fire the aft guns and enough to get citadeled is VERY small.  You must take the risk because this ship can't afford to only get 50% of its main battery firing. North Carolina for example can sit steeply angled and not worry too much about the aft turrets because it has 6 forward and the guns are larger. Vanguard can't. Fast rudder (for a BB) helps but you can and still will eat citadels. Despite the high health the ship is easier to sink than a NC with lower HP that can afford to angle better with less loss of firepower. 

Overall I don't really care much for the ship. It doesn't stink by any means. It is perfectly average overall (actually slightly below IMHO), but it doesn't suit my playstyle and doesn't actually do anything that well that other ships don't do better. For a ship with the same gun size and layout I think Bismarck is better with better output from the secondaries and more survivability (except against AP bombers). If you are ok with bad AA, Tirp is better as well and adds torpedoes. For the same gun size and number Richelieu has a far better gun placement which translates into better overall survivability despite fewer HP. It's also faster. If you want a British BB, Monarch's dps is better (thanks at least partially to more guns with better placement) as is it's concealment, but it's health is lower. Vanguard's only real strong point to me is it actually existed so it has historical value, even though it basically didn't do anything of worth since it was finished after the war.

I got mine in a Christmas Crate. I would never buy it though because I am primarily a cost-benefit guy and Vanguard doesn't meet the muster for that. It was a historical afterthought so it doesn't excite the historian in me either.  A friend of mine loves it and swears by it, but he goes on emotion and he loves Vanguard's history. What you think of it will depend on how you value your ship purchases. Strict value-wise, don't bother there are lots better for whatever your playstyle. IF you like the allure of British BBs, and actual historical ships, Vanguard is probably a good buy. At no point is it a bad buy, but there are (a lot of) better ones. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,890
[WOLF3]
Members
31,036 posts
26,068 battles

I have it and I won't even use it anymore, even for Co-op.

 

Gun angles SUCK BAD.

Citadel protection SUCKS BAD.

 

8 gun BB.  Most the time you can realistically only use 4 guns.  When you decide to use more than 4 guns, you may as well Exit To Port.  Gun angles are so bad you are almost showing flat broadside.

 

At no time has Vanguard ever even begrudgingly beat respect.  It has never even been a good choice for Ranked.

 

Vanguard is a death trap.

 

That's one of several warnings now as for some reason, this awful ship is being mentioned a lot lately.

Don't fall for Vanguard.  People trying to get you to make a dumb purchase.

 

Even Roma doesn't demand you show a flat broadside to use all her turrets.

 

Don't do it.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,434
[SGSS]
Members
6,224 posts
43 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

I saw @SeaRaptor's video. It doesn't stink. It isn't a great ship either though. It's an average ship that is either good or bad depending on how well it is captained. Personally I think its qualities hinder a bit more than they help but not enough to discourage getting it. It is basically a T9 BB hull with T6-T7 BB guns (basically Warspite/Queen Elizabeth). You can also think of it as Hood 1 tier up, with more durability and basically the same guns. 

Pluses: It is a tough ship (lots of HP) with good AA. IT's decently quick for a BB and has good rudder shift (not so much on the turn radius though). It is fairly accurate for an 8 gun BB. 

Minuses:

1. It's firepower isn't that great. It is better than Warspite but not markedly so. It has small caliber guns for the tier, fewer of them, AND they are VERY poorly placed. RIchelieu has the same caliber and number of guns but they are FAR better placed and the penetrate better (frequently overpenetrate) but accuracy is worse. Bismarck and Tirpitz have the same number of guns and layout but their aft turret arcs are better. Their turtlebacks also allow them to expose their sides enough to fire without getting citadeled. Roma has same-sized guns, but more of them, with better penetration (overpens again) AND in a better layout. 

2. Durability is nothing special despite the large HP pool. The high HP pool is let down by dreadful firing arcs for the aft guns. You have to expose a LOT of side to get those aft guns to fire and the margin between enough to fire the aft guns and enough to get citadeled is VERY small.  You must take the risk because this ship can't afford to only get 50% of its main battery firing. North Carolina for example can sit steeply angled and not worry too much about the aft turrets because it has 6 forward and the guns are larger. Vanguard can't. Fast rudder (for a BB) helps but you can and still will eat citadels. Despite the high health the ship is easier to sink than a NC with lower HP that can afford to angle better with less loss of firepower. 

Overall I don't really care much for the ship. It doesn't stink by any means. It is perfectly average overall (actually slightly below IMHO), but it doesn't suit my playstyle and doesn't actually do anything that well that other ships don't do better. For a ship with the same gun size and layout I think Bismarck is better with better output from the secondaries and more survivability (except against AP bombers). If you are ok with bad AA, Tirp is better as well and adds torpedoes. For the same gun size and number Richelieu has a far better gun placement which translates into better overall survivability despite fewer HP. It's also faster. If you want a British BB, Monarch's dps is better (thanks at least partially to more guns with better placement) as is it's concealment, but it's health is lower. Vanguard's only real strong point to me is it actually existed so it has historical value, even though it basically didn't do anything of worth since it was finished after the war.

I got mine in a Christmas Crate. I would never buy it though because I am primarily a cost-benefit guy and Vanguard doesn't meet the muster for that. It was a historical afterthought so it doesn't excite the historian in me either.  A friend of mine loves it and swears by it, but he goes on emotion and he loves Vanguard's history. What you think of it will depend on how you value your ship purchases. Strict value-wise, don't bother there are lots better for whatever your playstyle. IF you like the allure of British BBs, and actual historical ships, Vanguard is probably a good buy. At no point is it a bad buy, but there are (a lot of) better ones. 

Thank you for the indeapth analysis.  I will have to pass for now as I can only get one.

Sea Rapter has become my goto CC.  He seems very level headed and dow not let bias get in the road.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,434
[SGSS]
Members
6,224 posts
30 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I have it and I won't even use it anymore, even for Co-op.

 

Gun angles SUCK BAD.

Citadel protection SUCKS BAD.

 

8 gun BB.  Most the time you can realistically only use 4 guns.  When you decide to use more than 4 guns, you may as well Exit To Port.  Gun angles are so bad you are almost showing flat broadside.

 

At no time has Vanguard ever even begrudgingly beat respect.  It has never even been a good choice for Ranked.

 

Vanguard is a death trap.

 

That's one of several warnings now as for some reason, this awful ship is being mentioned a lot lately.

Don't fall for Vanguard.  People trying to get you to make a dumb purchase.

 

Even Roma doesn't demand you show a flat broadside to use all her turrets.

 

Don't do it.

ifori can have great Roma games.  She might be the toughest ship put there. If she had guns that worked she could be almost Russian balanced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×