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Magnamuz

Armor vs Torpedo Protection?

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I've been analyzing armor thickness to choose a durable punching bag of a boat, and I came across this for Torpedo Protection (TP) in tier 10 battleships:

Republique: 37% TP with 32mm armor EVERYWHERE.

Grober Kurfurst: 25% TP with 380mm to the sides, plus 150mm and 60mm towards the extremities, and 38mm below.

WTH??? I've seen countless videos analyzing armor and curvature of shells and torpedoes but no, 37% with no armor, how is this calculated? Is there something I'm not taking into account that could explain this numbers?

 

267501731_z(2).thumb.jpg.525c6e3e25f9d10d27c68e381c396aaf.jpg

320990807_z(1).thumb.jpg.cdb5e349e1793ac60dfe2becf90448b8.jpg

Edited by Magnamuz

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Thanks.

 

Never really looked at that stat.  I'm off to check out the Russian one.

 

:fish_book:

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Could just be a balance thing. Looking at it from a developer perspective, the argument could be made that because Republique can sail so fast it's more likely players kept her straight and made her eat torps? I can sort of understand GK having a lower torp resistance due to the fact that she has German hydro. Not saying I agree with it because I know she can't turn, but maybe that's how it works

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Torpedo Protection % is basically just a made-up number, and has no relationship to any armor model you see.  They don't even really correspond to the actual protection levels that various ships had.  It's just a number that WG uses for "balance".

It's also a ridiculous percentage on BBs, given that they WERE exceedingly vulnerable to ship-launched torps.  Air-launched ones, not so much (their much smaller warheads simply didn't cause that much damage to heavily armored and compartmentalized ships).  But the ability of ship launched torpedoes to do huge amounts of damage to BBs with just 1 or 2 hits is pretty well documented.

I'd be less annoyed with the massive torpedo protection % on ships, IF they stopped allowing damage saturation on the bow/stern for torpedo hits.  People should be faced with a choice when facing a spread of torps:  take 1 or maybe 2 on the torpedo protection, or maneuver to take 1 on the bow/stern. If your bow has already been farmed by someone, or you've taken a hit before on it with a torp, then the tactic to choose is a no-brainer:  turn into the torps, take 1 on the bow, and take 10% of the torp's damage (that is, 90% reduction in damage), as your bow is "saturated".

The fact that many, many ships can completely tank full spreads on their bow/stern is ludicrous.   I've seen BBs get rushed by cruisers and take 3 or 4 torpedo hits - but since BBs have HUGE bow/stern areas, all 3 or 4 would hit on that part, and basically all damage beyond the 1st torpedo was ignored, as the bow would be "saturated"; so what could easily SHOULD have been 40k in damage is, maybe 10k. Or less.  That's completely stupid.

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2 hours ago, Magnamuz said:

I've been analyzing armor thickness to choose a durable punching bag of a boat, and I came across this for Torpedo Protection (TP):

Republique: 37% TP with 32mm armor EVERYWHERE.

Grober Kurfurst: 25% TP with 380mm to the sides, plus 150mm and 60mm towards the extremities, and 38mm below.

WTH??? I've seen countless videos analyzing armor and curvature of shells and torpedoes but no, 37% with no armor, how is this calculated? Is there something I'm not taking into account that could explain this numbers?

 

267501731_z(2).thumb.jpg.525c6e3e25f9d10d27c68e381c396aaf.jpg

320990807_z(1).thumb.jpg.cdb5e349e1793ac60dfe2becf90448b8.jpg

Republic: Side Plating-torpedo protection.

GK: Armor Belt-placement armor.

You're looking at 2 different stats.

There's 7 different icons at the top to choose from...you are on 2 different options in those 2 shots.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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28 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Republic: Side Plating-torpedo protection.

GK: Armor Belt-placement armor.

You're looking at 2 different stats.

There's 7 different icons at the top to choose from...you are on 2 different options in those 2 shots.

Take a look yourself in the game, the TP of GK hits there, at least physically, but as said a few words ahead, below that is all 38mm armor, compared to the 32mm of Republique, so that's that, any way you see it.

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2 hours ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

Could just be a balance thing. Looking at it from a developer perspective, the argument could be made that because Republique can sail so fast it's more likely players kept her straight and made her eat torps? I can sort of understand GK having a lower torp resistance due to the fact that she has German hydro. Not saying I agree with it because I know she can't turn, but maybe that's how it works

Yes, a balance mechanism. Getting a GK to torp beat with hydro off is next level Jedi stuff.  And were it not for its secondaries, a favorite target of DD players. However, DD players still go for it. For a DD player, to bag a GK is like catching that really big fish and ending up on the cover of National Geographic.

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Putting all aside that others said, because torpedo defense is for the most part made up by WG, outer armor thickness itself doesn't have too much of an impact on the effectiveness of a torpedo defense system.

Usually a torpedo defense would consist of multiple layers of plating, and the joints between the plates, the spacing, the filling in between, those would make up how much your system can take.

For example, the Bismarck-class:

image.thumb.png.d46ecffa97a81fd5df8e0e95277c6595.png

Here the torpedo, depending on depth setting, would hit either the structural plating of the hull or the lower belt, which would be 170mm of cemented armor. Following that an empty space with another bulkhead following, and then you have another space but this time filled with either fuel oil (63) or water (119). Finally a torpedo bulkhead made out of 45mm of homogenous armor. The logic behind such a system is that a torpedo has two factors that allow it to penetrate the defenses: shrapnel from both the torpedo and the plating it tore open and the blast wave from the explosion. In an empty void with nothing but air in it the shrapnels have no real reason to slow down, but the blast wave gets room to expand freely and thus lowers the specific force it can apply to a plate. On the other side a liquid filled void offers a far more viscose medium, which slows shrapnels down, but due to the compressibility of liquids, or the lack of them, the blast wave will just push straight through.

 

If you go full madness you can now add a few more layers, and have them alternate to make the system even more effective. Like the Americans did it with the North Carolina class:

image.png.8dde150f2458bf8effa51277bb20d8d1.png

The outer plating has little impact here. It's the filling, just like with a cake.

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10 hours ago, Magnamuz said:

Take a look yourself in the game, the TP of GK hits there, at least physically, but as said a few words ahead, below that is all 38mm armor, compared to the 32mm of Republique, so that's that, any way you see it.

On cell phone...haven't been able to play for awhile (wifi lacking for keeping a connection).

Just wondering what Republic's armor belt/casement armor is for comparison.

You only showed it's 32mm side plating/torpedo protection.

You mentioned GKs 38mm of side plating/torpedo protection & showed it's 380mm armor belt/casement armor but haven't shown or mentioned Republic's armor belt/casement armor.

I was just wondering what it was as I can't log in to check it personally.

Although SireneRacker is correct about the other layers not necessarily diagramed in game that existed IRL...but sure WG has fudged the overall numbers to balance gimmicks in the game (or maybe their numbers are more accurate & take the extra layers into account even though they're not all diagrammed... but they definitely do have the option to use it for balancing).

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TDS values are whatever WG wants them to be.

 

For example, the TDS for North Carolina-class was deemed superior by the US Navy than the designs found on South Dakota and Iowa-classes.  Montana-class was supposed to go back to the NC system.

 

In WoWS, NC, Iowa, Montana have terrible TDS values while the two South Dakota-class BBs have amazing TDS.  NC is the worst of all of these High Tier USN Battleships in TDS, which is comical considering what the USN actually felt about it.

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