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spmdougherty

German Battlecrusiers! 'Vorwarts Seydlitz'!

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A modest proposal for a German Battlecruiser line, starting at tier 4. Any suggestions for play style, consumables etc extremely welcome.

Tier 4

SMS Seydlitz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Seydlitz

 

Tier 5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derfflinger-class_battlecruiser

 

Tier 6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ersatz_Yorck-class_battlecruiser

 

Tier 7

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scharnhorst-class_battleship (Gneisanau is then replaced in the main BB line by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L_20e_α-class_battleship)

 

Tier 8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-class_battlecruiser

 

Tier 9

? (any suggestions welcome)

Tier 10

? (any suggestions welcome)

 

I was thinking that the bottom tier (4-6) is slightly slower than a cruiser, more tanky than the UK battlecruisers and even battleships, and with better armor than average, with higher tiers being similar to Odin and Scharnhorst.

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Battlecruisers don't work above tier 7 or 8 and with better and better engines the fast battleship replaced them while giving up little protection in the process. The Scharnhorst and the Dunkerque are examples of how the fast battleship became the new battlecruiser.

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3 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

Battlecruisers don't work above tier 7 or 8 and with better and better engines the fast battleship replaced them while giving up little protection in the process. The Scharnhorst and the Dunkerque are examples of how the fast battleship became the new battlecruiser.

not necessarily, when you consider Alaska, Soveitsky Soyuz, and the design that formed the basis for Azuma

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12 minutes ago, spmdougherty said:

Soveitsky Soyuz

She is an actual battleship, just like Iowa, Nelson, and Yamato. I believe the ship your looking for is either Kronstat (someone correct me if I spelt it wrong) or Stalingrad. 

 

15 minutes ago, spmdougherty said:

the design that formed the basis for Azuma

I'm pretty sure Azuma is the original design, Yoshino is the WG refit.

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1 hour ago, spmdougherty said:

not necessarily, when you consider Alaska, Soveitsky Soyuz, and the design that formed the basis for Azuma

They only work in the upper tiers by putting them in the cruiser tree. If they were put in the BB tree they have to be down tiered.

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I just don't know why you'd skip Mackensen since one of her sisters is a T6 premium. Yorcks got the Hoods armament too, too powerful for a T6 IMO. QE and Bayern got 15's but they aren't fast, Izmail's got 14 inchers,is slightly slower too. Would put Yorck at T7. 

T1 Scharnhorst

T2 Blucher

T3 Von Der Tamm

T4 Moltke or Seydlitz work at T4 prefer Seydlitz cause we can eventually get Moltke's sister under the Ottoman or Euro flag some other time

T5 Derflingger

T6 Mackensan

T7 E Yorck

T8 "O class"(this thing could go 35 knots jesus christ)

Would put T1/T2 as the best German armored cruisers the WW1 Scharnhorst at T1 then Blucher at T2. While BC tech trees are fun, they aren't really distinguished enough from BB's to be their own type(stopped existing even in terms of paper designs after T8) and given that Kongo, Hood and Izmail are already in BB tech trees think BC's are going to be dropped as premiums one by one rather than as their own lines. If they gave them all to us in tech tree they'd be almost no BC's to make into premiums, while with other types this just isn't true. Besides UK/Germany most BC's even the paper ones would have been the only examples of those for their countries. Still want to see all of these of course. 

For some reason the battlecruiser like ships in the higher tiers get classified as cruisers though even though they clearly aren't. WG just has shown with ships that don't fit 100% in one type they're going to put them into an established type not make a new one. 

 

Edited by Aristotle83

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6 hours ago, Aristotle83 said:

WW1 Scharnhorst at T1 then Blucher at T2

I feel as though your severely underestimating both ships capabilities. While the WW1 Scharnhorst isn't an amazing ship she isn't so pathetic that she's T1 material that would be more fitting for an older pre dreadnought such as Indiana. Meanwhile Blucher is a direct response to the Invincible class so your really under selling her ability to kill things.

Edited by skytank_invader

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Blucher would be better at tier 4, I think. She has 9.4 inch guns, iirc, so she can't be too far down.

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I've been down this path before... and it's a dead end. O-class is already in-game as a tier 9 cruiser (Siegfried enters stage left) and the fast battleship designs ended with WW1. Just a tip (no need to take offence, just for future reference): always provide the basic characteristics of the ships you are proposing. Never just give names and tiers, provide something to show other players you have devoted some time into planning this, and most lazy people (like me) can't be bothered to click on a link and read every single reference. I only say this because I did the same thing once, and got lots of kickback for the above reasons. Here's an example: I'm working on a different German battlecruiser line, only this one is in line with Admiral Graf Spee and Agir. I'll provide stats such as damage per shell type, shell velocity, maximum range and dispersion, the various armour thicknesses, consumables, etc. I will NOT be providing AA stats, cause who cares about those? :cap_old: All that being said, show me what you can come up with! Impress me!

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21 hours ago, skytank_invader said:

Here are a tier 9 and 10 respectively.

image.thumb.jpeg.a98a8be13ab4f7e8f33f5fc43e89eeb4.jpeg

 

Where did you find this? I can NEVER find any historical documents regarding German Plan Z ships... Would you be kind enough to telling me where you found this? Thanks in advance!

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I think Panzerschiffe like Graf Spee (or more likely the Deutschland) are better in their own class. It is relatively easy to do if you have the right resources. 

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3 hours ago, Grand_Admiral_Murrel said:

Where did you find this? I can NEVER find any historical documents regarding German Plan Z ships... Would you be kind enough to telling me where you found this? Thanks in advance!

I found this, while looking through the forum. It was posted by @AL_Yuudachi who subsequently found it on the German speaking EU forums. I believe it's on the tenth page of this sub forum. 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/203490-panzerschiffe-entwurf-p-ii/

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