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CV in separate mode - why not?

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Disclaimer: I know this topic (or banning CV) have been brought up multiple times and multiple times threads with it were locked. I don't want to stir up any holy war.

Suggestion: move CV in separate mode like the one with submarines.

Rational: (I think this is very good idea since) it will force WG to rework CV to the point where interaction with them by other classes of ships will not be one-way beating. Until people would like to play that mode - CV is just doesn't worth randoms (just like submarines are not worth randoms right now just because there's almost none human-driven BB in the sub-mode). This is very good mode to test how good implementation is - if your implementation suck - nobody would want to play it. Simple and effective - go rework it until people are interested in it. No other class is avoided like CV - there are people who play all 3 (CA/BB/DD) and/or some combination or just one, but there's no such thing as hated class. Just CV (and soon subs). 

Questions: Just curious - why can't WG make this move? How will this hurt the game? I can see upside - lot of frustrated with CV people will not uninstall but keep playing and spending some money on game.  A lot of people who already left would come back. What is downside?

 

please don't turn this into another holy-war few minutes and locked thread. this is reasonable proposition without any toxicity intended

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Just look at the sub only game mode, currently there are mostly only human sub players and mostly bots for the other ship. CV's would only be the only humans with lots of bots. 

That is one reason why that game mode will not work.

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Just now, Drago25x said:

Why not.. just look at the sub only game mode, currently there are mostly only human sub players and mostly bots for the other ship. CV's would only be the only humans with lots of bots. 

This is exactly my point: until they fix it so more people will be interested to be involved - it needs rework. Right now BB doesn't have way to deal with subs and people don't want to play them, overall interest in subs is just to play them not to play against them (though as DD main I've played dozen sub battles and it was ok). The rational here is that moving bad class into separate mode work as an indicator - until people are interested, - implementation is bad.

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13 minutes ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

This is exactly my point: until they fix it so more people will be interested to be involved - it needs rework. Right now BB doesn't have way to deal with subs and people don't want to play them, overall interest in subs is just to play them not to play against them (though as DD main I've played dozen sub battles and it was ok). The rational here is that moving bad class into separate mode work as an indicator - until people are interested, - implementation is bad.

Yeah it’s subs that is one of the reasons I am regrinding my CVs after selling off when Rework happened. Because unlike  BBs that I have long heavily used the CVs can instead sink the subs more reliably and safely.

While DDs and CLs are the most devastating to subs, they are also the most at risk while doing so because the subs sees them coming from good ways off and allows for enemy fire to sunk the DD hunters while the hunters search for the sub.

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1 minute ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah it’s subs that is one of the reasons I am regrinding my CVs after selling off when Rework happened. Because unlike  BBs that I have long heavily used the CVs can instead sink the subs more reliably and safely.

While DDs and CLs are the most devastating to subs, they are also the most at risk while doing so because the subs sees them coming from good ways off and allows for enemy fire to sunk the DD hunters while the hunters search for the sub.

So if subs will enter randoms we pretty much will have 2 master races and the double toxic environment. That's just bad

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12 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah it’s subs that is one of the reasons I am regrinding my CVs after selling off when Rework happened. Because unlike  BBs that I have long heavily used the CVs can instead sink the subs more reliably and safely.

While DDs and CLs are the most devastating to subs, they are also the most at risk while doing so because the subs sees them coming from good ways off and allows for enemy fire to sunk the DD hunters while the hunters search for the sub.

In their current form good luck hitting a sub, they dive so fast that they can dive to a safe depth before you can complete your attack run.

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18 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

In their current form good luck hitting a sub, they dive so fast that they can dive to a safe depth before you can complete your attack run.

I have had high rates of success in hitting subs both with HE and AP Bombs. Rockets can only be used if the sub player is dumb enough to stay surfaced. Torpedoes bombers really no chance of success.

The trick is spotting the sub with the dive bombers, drop fighters to keep sub spotted and make quick turn around and drop bomb run after bomb run.

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36 minutes ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

So if subs will enter randoms we pretty much will have 2 master races and the double toxic environment. That's just bad

Good grief.  So... you're afraid that CV's and Subs will overthrow the two current master races of BBs and fire breathing CLs?

Why not just say that no navy ever used subs or carriers?  Why not just say they are science fiction?

Or... why not ask WG for a BB ONLY Mode?  This would be especially appreciated in a Co-op form since DDs kill most of the bots before the BBs can even start their engines.

I'm guessing that battleship players don't want a BB only mode because then they must be willing to die first instead of the DDs and the CLs.  That's my guess.

Personally, I would enjoy a BB only mode just so that I could use the awesome secondaries on Bismarck.  Maybe I will ask for it.  :Smile_great:

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Why put them in separate mode? Subs exp show that the players are submarines with one or two other ship and the rest of the team is made of bots.

Its easy to play against cv. You need to play as a team. The problem is, as someone say in other topic, that WoW rewards solo players more than teamplayers

Putting them in other mode wont solve anything, unless you only play with a dd in smoke

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1 hour ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

So if subs will enter randoms we pretty much will have 2 master races and the double toxic environment. That's just bad

Just two?

LOL 😎

I already have the name for new CV mode: Hell.

Send players that are reported for bad gameplay in Randoms to this place.

Then let CV players use RTS CVs on them.

That will give many players incentive to not play bad in Randoms.

They have timeout for bad kids, well this would be fitting for warships and hilarious. Letting CV mains RTS bomb poop players is actually doing a public service.

I can already imagine how many DD mains shivering in the dark.

Imagine 6 Kagas, and rest Hakuryus. Then punished players are on other side.

"Wait, AA is still nerfed, RTS CVs, oh no Mr Bill!"

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24 minutes ago, Nordlaender said:

Good grief.  So... you're afraid that CV's and Subs will overthrow the two current master races of BBs and fire breathing CLs?

Why not just say that no navy ever used subs or carriers?  Why not just say they are science fiction?

Or... why not ask WG for a BB ONLY Mode?  This would be especially appreciated in a Co-op form since DDs kill most of the bots before the BBs can even start their engines.

I'm guessing that battleship players don't want a BB only mode because then they must be willing to die first instead of the DDs and the CLs.  That's my guess.

Personally, I would enjoy a BB only mode just so that I could use the awesome secondaries on Bismarck.  Maybe I will ask for it.  :Smile_great:

Lol you forget the third one the Torpedo Boat DDs that strike fear into the hearts of BB players and a single DD can sometimes cause an entire team of BBs to cover in fear. :cap_haloween:

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1 hour ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

So if subs will enter randoms we pretty much will have 2 master races and the double toxic environment. That's just bad

2 things you are not taking into consideration:

1st- Before the rework there were players that spent money on premium CVs...some of those players still play those CVs & not only enjoy running the in random battles but have paid for the right to do so.

That is the reason that CVs never got their own test mode on the live server. You can't sell somebody a ship in a game that is centered around 1 major game mode for grinding XP on ships & then tell them they are restricted to from playing that mode for even 1 day...let alone (as you are proposing) permanently.

2nd- As for subs...nobody owns them...so they can test them on a separate test mode...for as long as they like...& for as many different iterations as they seem fit to balance them.

Basing opinions on a completely new ship class (that I can almost guarantee you haven't even tried out yet based on your immediate opinion of them) on the 1st round of a potentially unlimited amount of test rounds before they are released in random battles is just doom & gloom spreading w/nothing but emotions to be base it on.

BTW: Basic test policy for any new product...make the item being tested as easy as possible to use so you can entice the most amount of people as possible to test it out (example: CV rework version 0.8.0.).

Subs are nowhere near where they will be when they drop live & BBs will not be the sitting ducks they are being reported to be by all of the BB mains that have never even run them in the test mode.

Most that have actually tested them in the sub mode reported that it was not that hard to fight against subs if you Judy contribute to eliminating their support throughout the battle & a few even reported being able to win in 1 on 1 endgames in BBs against subs by forcing them to surface to stop the BBs from capping.

Do don't declare subs a master race based on 1st round testing reports unless you actually have a basic idea how testing works.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
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1 hour ago, Nordlaender said:

Good grief.  So... you're afraid that CV's and Subs will overthrow the two current master races of BBs and fire breathing CLs?

Why not just say that no navy ever used subs or carriers?  Why not just say they are science fiction?

Or... why not ask WG for a BB ONLY Mode?  This would be especially appreciated in a Co-op form since DDs kill most of the bots before the BBs can even start their engines.

I'm guessing that battleship players don't want a BB only mode because then they must be willing to die first instead of the DDs and the CLs.  That's my guess.

Personally, I would enjoy a BB only mode just so that I could use the awesome secondaries on Bismarck.  Maybe I will ask for it.  :Smile_great:

sorry but I don't think you have any point here. 3 classes presented in game are balanced against each other, DD eats BB, BB eats CA, CA eats DD. there are deviations, but they are mostly with bad players

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why not? simple, it'd show WG what they fear most, that they were wrong about the rework being a success because next to no one would be playing that mode

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1 hour ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Just two?

LOL 😎

I already have the name for new CV mode: Hell.

Send players that are reported for bad gameplay in Randoms to this place.

Then let CV players use RTS CVs on them.

That will give many players incentive to not play bad in Randoms.

They have timeout for bad kids, well this would be fitting for warships and hilarious. Letting CV mains RTS bomb poop players is actually doing a public service.

I can already imagine how many DD mains shivering in the dark.

Imagine 6 Kagas, and rest Hakuryus. Then punished players are on other side.

"Wait, AA is still nerfed, RTS CVs, oh no Mr Bill!"

last i checked, cruel and unusual punishment was illegal

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41 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

2 things you are not taking into consideration:

1st- Before the rework there were players that spent money on premium CVs...some of those players still play those CV

2nd- As for subs...nobody owns them... I can almost guarantee you haven't even tried out yet based on your immediate opinion of them

3 Subs are nowhere near where they will be when they drop live

4 Most that have actually tested them in the sub mode reported that it was not that hard to fight against subs 

5 Do don't declare subs a master race based on 1st round testing reports unless you actually have a basic idea how testing works.

Wow, - there's a lot of assumptions here

1. Lots of people spent money on this game - but you cannot make everybody happy. Many premium ships, which I bought are know port queens because of power creep. Sorry, but that's the way things done by WG and I don't see why CV have to be different. Nobody over Balans, kamarad.

2. You assuming - you wrong. I played subs (funny story - I actually had my first sub token open all the subs, so yeah - I played quite few games and deleted BB's without problems)

3. Another assumption - there are no facts supporting this (WG said they gonna test CV but we all know how it ended up)

4. I would go ahead and say this is lie. Do you have any proof behind this "most". "most" streamers I watch says otherwise

5. This is not 1st round of tests - there were PT test (3) and I do have basic (few battles in subs and dozen in every other class in subs mode) idea how this works

So ...

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25 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

why not? simple, it'd show WG what they fear most, that they were wrong about the rework being a success because next to no one would be playing that mode

I agree with this 100%.

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Sounds reasonable to me.

Maybe if WoWS had a Grand Battle Mode or something similar. Here's how it could work:

All ship types allowed including CV and Subs (thus precluding these two classes from random battles)

There are maybe three or four entirely new maps that are larger than normal maps (just by a little bit). Team size would be adjusted accordingly. (This would also make it easier for devs as they only have to worry about a few maps being made for subs and not all of them)

It would work like a normal random battle but with limited respawns per player and a much higher point cap. Maybe you could swap ships after a death?

 

As much as I enjoy some of the dynamics of CV play, I am tired of seeing people so upset about them that they end up uninstalling. WG could handle this a lot better if they made separate game modes. This would do a lot to alleviate low-tier predator CVs and the soon-to-be sealclub submarine divisions

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58 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

last i checked, cruel and unusual punishment was illegal

You know, many players think my Hakuryu rocket planes are cruel to DDs, so I only hit them two times and let the team finish them off.

I occasionally slip in a torpedo to DDs.  Even if I miss, just making them dance is well.. amusing.

So I made a Wooster hump a map edge a few times. Every CV player does that. I just laugh doing it

 Okay, I probably torpedo the sterns of BBs more than anyone else. That does not make me a twisted player, just a creative one.

I may have dropped AP in a manner of Thor hammer drop a few times leaving a player or two pondering their existence. It's not being mean, I just like to deliver messages. It's just players don't see the humor.

Sure I do sneaky CV stuff like spot a cruiser to death rather than attack it. But that's because I want BB players on my team to get some. I am generous.

I do protect DDs on my team. Even if they call me an expletive CV bastard. They usually lighten up when they survived the whole match and we win.

Cruel and unusual would be putting Smolensk players in a mode all by themselves against 11 Conquerers firing HE at them. And the captains all respond as Jingles.

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9 minutes ago, captain_fearless said:

If they nerfed rocket damage against destroyers and made rocket planes hard to use, CVs would be fine. You just gotta make sure your in a group

I'm sure balancing out CV might get to the point when it's not master-race class. But I was making other point - balancing should be performed in separate game mode. This way WG would stop alienating biggest part of the player base (and yes they did and they keep doing this)

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1 hour ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

I'm sure balancing out CV might get to the point when it's not master-race class. But I was making other point - balancing should be performed in separate game mode. This way WG would stop alienating biggest part of the player base (and yes they did and they keep doing this)

Well that's a valid point isn't it?

When rework hit, the whole player base went sideways.

I guess a separate mode of a RTS hybrid would work. Then just have it stay as a standalone mode until such time as it's polished.

Because it's been over a year and we are no where close to happy players on both sides of the issue.

But while we are at it, WG could make an open map Randoms mode so players can't camp. It's basically a shootout. No cover, radar is useless, DDs don't have CVs hounding them, and it's get some or get wrecked. This mode will make shimakaze players happy again. BB players will like it, but will have to keep moving. Cruisers will have to adapt to standoff shooting and be constantly on the move.

Meanwhile the campy, Biff, bamm, take that, I can see you, oh goody I found cover, feed me a sandwich while I wait to farm, Randoms, can be left to players that probably will never change. This mode should have really high mountains, fog, submarine bots that drop if the match is getting boring.

Another mode is low islands, capture zone oriented matches. This would be ideal for DD players. Natural fog banks will be additional features to keep DD players hidden.

Middle weight mode is for cruiser players. Straight up Pew Pew.

Heavy weight mode is for BBs. Just slug it out in a formed up Battleship squadron. Line up old school and Duke it out at long and eventually close quarters. Here, legends are made and with no squishy ships in the way, it's just a monster match. Not for the faint of heart. And few islands in the combat engagement zone. It's open water steel rain. An artillery enthusiast dream.

There are many possibilities for game modes and variations. WG should consider it as a fun factor thing.

After all, fun is what it's all about.

 

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13 hours ago, SlartiBartFastE2 said:

sorry but I don't think you have any point here. 3 classes presented in game are balanced against each other, DD eats BB, BB eats CA, CA eats DD. there are deviations, but they are mostly with bad players

As far as I know regarding naval history, it was never a "rock, paper, scissors" game.  If that is all you can handle, then perhaps you should go back to playing solitaire.

Solitaire is a straight forward game that is easy to play and easy to cheat at.  You should do well there because you will always win, which I think is your whole point.

I would prefer a game with more suspense, no guarantee of victory using bizarre non naval maneuvers like "bow tanking in reverse while hugging an island", no spamming of endless torpedoes, and no computer generated "sixth sense" because I can use my own sixth sense based on experience of playing the game.  And if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.  You learn from that.

I don't think you own this game, so claiming that other players have no point is extremely arrogant.  I have a very valid point.  There were more than three classes of ships represented in naval warfare during the first half of the 20th century.  I shouldn't even have to say that.  Incorporating them into the game is important to show what really went on during this time period.

If you want to play rock, paper, scissors, then my suggestion to you is... well... go play rock, paper, scissors with someone.  See how long your interest in that lasts.

Please don't change a naval warfare game into a child's game.  Some of us actually enjoy the challenge presented by something more complicated than a rock, paper, scissors game.

Thanks.

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