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Landsraad

0.9.5, More details on UU changes

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So this particular Dev Blog entry hasn't gotten an official post yet, I figure that I may as well put it here for more generalized consumption. Now obviously people that read the entry itself can and likely will have different opinions on it than me, I know that I tend to overlook things so I've come to accept that this is a thing that happens. But before getting into the meat of it, I'd just a moment to tell Wargaming "thank you, more of this please" because this isn't just a dev blog where they say what the upcoming changes are. Instead they actually lay out the reasoning behind their decision and the actual numbers to support it. This is lovely! We need more of this kind of transparency given the fiascos and unpopular changes of the last year or so.

The tl;dr here is that Wargaming wants the Unique Upgrades to be alternative playstyles for their tier 10 ships, good enough to be desirable, but not overpowered. So they looked at each ship and two stats for each of them in particular: Percent of players using the UU, and the difference in winrate between ships with and without the UU. Which is a pretty good way to tell if the module is too enticing or overperforming, or in-the case of ships like Shimakaze, Worcester, and Republique-seen as not worth it. Heck they even admit that by this metric Henri IV is doing fine and thus its UU will not be changed at this time.

So yeah, color me pleasantly surprised by all this!

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7 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

 

The tl;dr here is that Wargaming wants the Unique Upgrades to be alternative playstyles for their tier 10 ships, good enough to be desirable, but not overpowered.

That's always been the stated idea. Now, implementation-wise that's not always been the case but it's always been the idea.

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If WG wanted "alternative" playstyles, then they should rework captain skills and ship modules, instead of a dumb system where you have to regrind multiple lines for a single module upgrade.

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1 hour ago, macktkau2 said:

If WG wanted "alternative" playstyles, then they should rework captain skills and ship modules, instead of a dumb system where you have to regrind multiple lines for a single module upgrade.

Damn right.  Captain skills is where the change of operation for a ship should come from, not abstract balancing and UU's etc.  That will never happen until WG allows free respecs of captains of course.  $$$$

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3 hours ago, macktkau2 said:

If WG wanted "alternative" playstyles, then they should rework captain skills and ship modules, instead of a dumb system where you have to regrind multiple lines for a single module upgrade.

How about, If WG wanted "alternative" playstyles, then they should bring in new nations with new ships?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, madgiecool said:

How about, If WG wanted "alternative" playstyles, then they should bring in new nations with new ships?

 

 

I think they have been doing that. The UU may be a way to entice older (err. "more experienced players") to grind the lines.

 

3 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

A 1 point captain skill that removes RNG and no matter the ship type, guns, bombs hit with no dispersion ellipse. WG can remove RPF.

:cap_haloween:

The removing  RPF might make some players happy. I have read Kuro (spell) doesn't think it should be in the game.

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5 hours ago, Landsraad said:

So this particular Dev Blog entry hasn't gotten an official post yet, I figure that I may as well put it here for more generalized consumption. Now obviously people that read the entry itself can and likely will have different opinions on it than me, I know that I tend to overlook things so I've come to accept that this is a thing that happens. But before getting into the meat of it, I'd just a moment to tell Wargaming "thank you, more of this please" because this isn't just a dev blog where they say what the upcoming changes are. Instead they actually lay out the reasoning behind their decision and the actual numbers to support it. This is lovely! We need more of this kind of transparency given the fiascos and unpopular changes of the last year or so.

The tl;dr here is that Wargaming wants the Unique Upgrades to be alternative playstyles for their tier 10 ships, good enough to be desirable, but not overpowered. So they looked at each ship and two stats for each of them in particular: Percent of players using the UU, and the difference in winrate between ships with and without the UU. Which is a pretty good way to tell if the module is too enticing or overperforming, or in-the case of ships like Shimakaze, Worcester, and Republique-seen as not worth it. Heck they even admit that by this metric Henri IV is doing fine and thus its UU will not be changed at this time.

So yeah, color me pleasantly surprised by all this!

I’m just glad they laid out the reasoning in a simple to understand way. Before it seemed very arbitrary. Two issues though:

 - I think they make a logical fallacy in not considering how some ships are underpowered/power crept in why people select certain UUs. I think the Kurfürst is one of the lower performing T10 BBs so that is why the buff was so popular. Nerfing it just makes the Kurfürst more likely to underperform IMHO. They need to look at some of the older T10 ships and consider buffing them.

- Second, I just ground out the Des Moines UU a month ago through the research bureau and with the changes I’d like to trade it back and use the research points for other items. @Hapa_Fodder any likelihood of WG allowing that?

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I was quite surprised by the uu changes. Certain ones that got buffed like the yy, shima, repub, and Worcester made sense. Those ones are universally acknowledged as being bad or even not useable. So them getting changed is a good thing. However, the "popularity" of a few made no sense. The uu's for the khaba, gearing, conquerer, and worst of all hindenburg being used at a rate of over 50% was very surprising. At best, the khaba and conquerer could be considered sidegrades and many would consider them bad or worse than the normal upgrade. The gearing uu would at best be considered niche.  Its strength is best used in a competitive environment, but heavily decreases a players ability to do damage in random battles. The hindenburg uu however is probably one of the worst in the game and it remaining the same is quite baffling. Maybe to the average player it would look quite strong, but in practice, it is awful. It would be interesting to know if the "popularity" percentage was total usage, or if it was a control group. My guess is, a lot of players would equip the uu regardless of its useability. Of course, using it regardless of its useability would heavily skew the popularity data. 

Edited by eagle_lance

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I got the ones I have for all my T10s that had them before the changes (two T10s do not have any, Daring and Audacious-I'm pointing the finger at YOU WG for this lapse). I have never found any of them to be useful except in Ranked and Clan battles to a limited degree. They are essentially useless in Randoms because MM selects your team mates, you don't, even with Divisions. Your choice...

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8 hours ago, Landsraad said:

So this particular Dev Blog entry hasn't gotten an official post yet, I figure that I may as well put it here for more generalized consumption. Now obviously people that read the entry itself can and likely will have different opinions on it than me, I know that I tend to overlook things so I've come to accept that this is a thing that happens. But before getting into the meat of it, I'd just a moment to tell Wargaming "thank you, more of this please" because this isn't just a dev blog where they say what the upcoming changes are. Instead they actually lay out the reasoning behind their decision and the actual numbers to support it. This is lovely! We need more of this kind of transparency given the fiascos and unpopular changes of the last year or so.

The tl;dr here is that Wargaming wants the Unique Upgrades to be alternative playstyles for their tier 10 ships, good enough to be desirable, but not overpowered. So they looked at each ship and two stats for each of them in particular: Percent of players using the UU, and the difference in winrate between ships with and without the UU. Which is a pretty good way to tell if the module is too enticing or overperforming, or in-the case of ships like Shimakaze, Worcester, and Republique-seen as not worth it. Heck they even admit that by this metric Henri IV is doing fine and thus its UU will not be changed at this time.

So yeah, color me pleasantly surprised by all this!

Were are the rest of them?  Where are the CV, Itialian, French

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2 hours ago, jags_domain said:

Were are the rest of them?  Where are the CV, Itialian, French

Yeah where is my Kremlin upgrade. I think it needs a UU that makes it tankier to enable a more close-in playstyle.

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41 minutes ago, macktkau2 said:

Yeah where is my Kremlin upgrade. I think it needs a UU that makes it tankier to enable a more close-in playstyle.

Isnt tanky enough?  It does deserve one.

The UU do give it somthing different.  I rushed the CV lines before the time ran out and nothing.

Guess they were busy... :cap_old:

The Itialian could have somthing lome 3 less km range for 3 sec off reload.  

The CB they could just bring them back as they were.

 

Edited by jags_domain
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