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TinCanMan_

Rocket Planes out of control

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I discarded this once because I know we got here for some well thought out reason.  Then I took my Gearing and kitted him with Massive AA as a Captain skill and took it for a spin.  Literally in 2 minutes, I was attacked by rocket planes from a Midway.  I did not smoke up because I wanted to see what my massive AA could do and engaged my AA only after I was discovered.  I killed 2 planes and suffed 10k of damage (!!!!) on my 22k Gearing.  3500 of those points are from Survivability expert.  Then I went into a cap to sieze it and was spotted by planes (yes I failed to turn my AA back off so drew him in from 5ks away, I smoked up but was killed at the 1630 mark.  Was this the intention of rocket planes?

I played a unicum CV player once 3 times in the same afternoon.  All DDs destroyed in 10 minutes or less every time.  I know my one anecdote is not an outlier.  

So I went and looked up US Navy destroyers, destroyed in WWII by rockets from planes.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II#Destroyers_(DD) A fair number (DDs and DEs) were destroyed by kamikazes and a couple by land based planes but maybe there is one or two in the list from a CV.   For all of WW2, the US lost at most 2 DDs or DEs by planes from a CV.  Then I looked up results for the US air to ship rockets (Tiny Tim) developed in time for Okinowa.   https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/tiny-tim-missile/nasm_A19660030000  There is actually one on display at the Simthsonion National Air and Space Mueseum.  The Meusem states, "Tiny Tims sunk at least one Japanese ship and seriously damaged another." 

I understand this is a make believe universe and its a business to keep customers engaged.  

Still, I wonder what the desired outcome was and is it having that effect.  I think you have options to reduce the effect or reduce the number of rocket planes available in this universe and urge you to consider them.  


 

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My first question is if you decided to sail bow in into the rocket planes.  If they were Tiny Tim's and you were bow in the CV player is thanking you for making his job easier. 

I feel like their is some exaggeration and you should post the replay.

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7 minutes ago, TinCanMan_ said:

I discarded this once because I know we got here for some well thought out reason.  Then I took my Gearing and kitted him with Massive AA as a Captain skill and took it for a spin.  Literally in 2 minutes, I was attacked by rocket planes from a Midway.  I did not smoke up because I wanted to see what my massive AA could do and engaged my AA only after I was discovered.  I killed 2 planes and suffed 10k of damage (!!!!) on my 22k Gearing.  3500 of those points are from Survivability expert.  Then I went into a cap to sieze it and was spotted by planes (yes I failed to turn my AA back off so drew him in from 5ks away, I smoked up but was killed at the 1630 mark.  Was this the intention of rocket planes?

I played a unicum CV player once 3 times in the same afternoon.  All DDs destroyed in 10 minutes or less every time.  I know my one anecdote is not an outlier.  

So I went and looked up US Navy destroyers, destroyed in WWII by rockets from planes.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II#Destroyers_(DD) A fair number (DDs and DEs) were destroyed by kamikazes and a couple by land based planes but maybe there is one or two in the list from a CV.   For all of WW2, the US lost at most 2 DDs or DEs by planes from a CV.  Then I looked up results for the US air to ship rockets (Tiny Tim) developed in time for Okinowa.   https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/tiny-tim-missile/nasm_A19660030000  There is actually one on display at the Simthsonion National Air and Space Mueseum.  The Meusem states, "Tiny Tims sunk at least one Japanese ship and seriously damaged another." 

I understand this is a make believe universe and its a business to keep customers engaged.  

Still, I wonder what the desired outcome was and is it having that effect.  I think you have options to reduce the effect or reduce the number of rocket planes available in this universe and urge you to consider them.  


 

Stop frustrating yourself with Factual history.

I play CVs once in a while and the easiest thing to use on a CV are the rockets.. then the Dive Bombers THEN the Torps.  If CV drivers didn't have a way to do massive damage easily then no one would play them.  Sorry but that is a fact.

Great CV players will delete you with all three but the VAST majority of them can't.

Even I can do major damage with rockets and I SUCK!

I play DDs at T10 OFTEN.  It's easy once you learn.  Just have to be sneaky. I get spotted far more often by another DD or Radar than the CVs.

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I have to call exagerations, and or missplays by you...

Rocket planes for IJN and U.S. planes are different. One is vertical shots one is horizontal.. if you don't angle your ship right you're going to have a chance of taking huge damage... If you angle correctly. you'll almost always take almost no damage...

 

I assume you potatoed and have no idea how to defend yourself against planes, therefore you got smacked.. Like any ship would vs any other ship who have no clue how to defend yourself against it..

 

The CV's are balanced just fine..

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its called CV tax, this is where you make the mistake of taking a dd into a cv game and not dodging them in queue by backing out of queue when you see cv numbers appear and lose half your hp at the start of the game because "cv are balanced just fine".

The best way to just dodge cv is to have your finger ready on the esc key as you enter matchmaking queue and slam that button if there are cv numbers, who would willingly want to play against such a terribly balanced class.

 

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17 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

its called CV tax, this is where you make the mistake of taking a dd into a cv game and not dodging them in queue by backing out of queue when you see cv numbers appear and lose half your hp at the start of the game because "cv are balanced just fine".

The best way to just dodge cv is to have your finger ready on the esc key as you enter matchmaking queue and slam that button if there are cv numbers, who would willingly want to play against such a terribly balanced class.

 

Or you could get better at the game, and learn how to play around them...
 

But why do that when you can cry on the forums the big bad CV touched me wrong there's nothing I can do! is so easy while the minority pat you on the back and give you a sucker to make you feel better...

 

I rather get better, and enjoy the different dynamics in the game, such as Submarines, CV's, and different engangements vs different ships... I guess some things are just too far over some peoples heads.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Lady_Athena said:

Or you could get better at the game, and learn how to play around them...
 

But why do that when you can cry on the forums the big bad CV touched me wrong there's nothing I can do! is so easy while the minority pat you on the back and give you a sucker to make you feel better...

 

I rather get better, and enjoy the different dynamics in the game, such as Submarines, CV's, and different engangements vs different ships... I guess some things are just too far over some peoples heads.

 

 

7b530f6e463b6c9edffcd4c0e17bebbd.pnghere are my stats as you can see i am not bad at the game.

0637512cf0cb8a2874704bbea2661f41.png super uni cv player across about 700+ cv games

i guess i am just a bad player that does not understand basic game mechanics, i should play cv to learn them and how to counter them instead of complaining right?

crazy how every good player in this game dislikes cv?

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6 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

7b530f6e463b6c9edffcd4c0e17bebbd.pnghere are my stats as you can see i am not bad at the game.

0637512cf0cb8a2874704bbea2661f41.png super uni cv player across about 700+ cv games

i guess i am just a bad player that does not understand basic game mechanics, i should play cv to learn them and how to counter them instead of complaining right?

crazy how every good player in this game dislikes cv?

 

tenor (4).gif

tenor141414.gif

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18 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

7b530f6e463b6c9edffcd4c0e17bebbd.pnghere are my stats as you can see i am not bad at the game.

0637512cf0cb8a2874704bbea2661f41.png super uni cv player across about 700+ cv games

i guess i am just a bad player that does not understand basic game mechanics, i should play cv to learn them and how to counter them instead of complaining right?

crazy how every good player in this game dislikes cv?

Well done Commander, maybe some people learn humility now. +1

:cap_horn::Smile_teethhappy:

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:)

Edited by ITZ_ACE_BABY

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28 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

7b530f6e463b6c9edffcd4c0e17bebbd.pnghere are my stats as you can see i am not bad at the game.

0637512cf0cb8a2874704bbea2661f41.png super uni cv player across about 700+ cv games

i guess i am just a bad player that does not understand basic game mechanics, i should play cv to learn them and how to counter them instead of complaining right?

crazy how every good player in this game dislikes cv?

Prince called, he wants his color back.

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2 hours ago, Col_Nasty said:

If CV drivers didn't have a way to do massive damage easily then no one would play them. 

You say that like it would be a bad thing.

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59 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Or you could get better at the game, and learn how to play around them...
 

But why do that when you can cry on the forums the big bad CV touched me wrong there's nothing I can do! is so easy while the minority pat you on the back and give you a sucker to make you feel better...

 

I rather get better, and enjoy the different dynamics in the game, such as Submarines, CV's, and different engangements vs different ships... I guess some things are just too far over some peoples heads.

 

 

Please come back to the thread.  Pretty please.

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34 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

:)

Here is what I dont understand then. If you are sooo good then whats the problem you are complaining about with CVs. Are you saying though you have good stats you still cant figure out how to counter a CV? If so can you detail the specific issues without generalizing what the problem is. One would think CVs as bad as you make them out to be your DD stats would be poor since CV are such an unstoppable terror. Your inflammatory postings are just useless posture if you dont add substance. 

Edited by Ban_CV_Complainers
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1 hour ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

7b530f6e463b6c9edffcd4c0e17bebbd.pnghere are my stats as you can see i am not bad at the game.

0637512cf0cb8a2874704bbea2661f41.png super uni cv player across about 700+ cv games

i guess i am just a bad player that does not understand basic game mechanics, i should play cv to learn them and how to counter them instead of complaining right?

crazy how every good player in this game dislikes cv?

No it's not crazy.

It's the same reason most good players hate snipers in shooters, etc. Because they are something which is out of your direct control.

You're a good player yes.. but apparently horrible when it comes to defending against CV's. As you say yourself AA is weak I do believe you said.

It's not weak, you just aren't playing as a team then. It really is that simple.

Refusing to use what's at your disposal to defend yourself against something, then claiming there is no defense is a fallacy argument.

 

You don't like CV's, I get it.. Deal with it or move on lol.. But stop the fallacy arguments..

Also what Ban_CV said:

 

Quote

Here is what I dont understand then. If you are sooo good then whats the problem you are complaining about with CVs. Are you saying though you have good stats you still cant figure out how to counter a CV? If so can you detail the specific issues without generalizing what the problem is. One would think CVs as bad as you make them out to be your DD stats would be poor since they are such an unstoppable terror. Your inflammatory postings are just useless posture if you dont add substance. 


If you're struggling so much I'm more than happy to help you.

But to claim CV's are such a horrible design, and nothing you can do to stop them, and they kill DD play, yada yada then to have the stats as good as yours are.. well.. actually directly contradicts your arguments.. You can do great with CV's in the game, and can still work around them and have great games... So.. thank you for winning my argument for me with your own personal stats.

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Wow!  That was interesting.  

My bad for telling an anecdote of one game but it was a decent hook. 

Let me reframe this.  I am not a unique nor exceptional dd player but I play hellova lot of dd.    

I have played 1,818 dd games of which 578 are Gearing games in the last two months. I have a 52% win rate (Gearing and overall) and I survive nearly 1/3 of the time.  Every now and then I have great games and even killed 28 planes (in a Gearing) in one game.   Every now and then, I suck and occaisionally I eat torpedoes.  As a reaction to rocket planes, I have grinded the Euro line and recently earned the Halland.   If I am not qualified to speak up now, when will I be?  If I get called a potato, so be it.  

My observations are rocket planes are noticeably stronger. then other planes  In addition, the attacks by the CV early in the game seem much more effective then late in the game.  In other words, I take 5-7k of damage per strafing and kill a few airplanes in early action.  In more than one game, I have died to 2 strafings of 2 wings of 5 rocket planes within 6 minutes.  Late in the game, I might kill 20 planes on a drive to their carrier.  If your in a dd that doesn't heal and you lose 50% or more hp early you're probably failing to meet your team mates expectations. A selfish player could hide early and score late but while it may not always look like it, I try to be a good team player.  

I appreciate the comments on angling but sometimes your just stuck when the planes arrive and it they are targeting you (loitering over your smoke, etc...) its tough to angle.    

My message is I think the rocket planes are OP.  WG has the data and there are more options available to the game designers that don't dramatically alter the game.  

Its great to see a super unicum player sharing his knowledge and just the other day I saw a minotaur get 9 kills.  Its definitely makes the game more fun to see some of the really good players out there doing it and then in this forum sharing some thoughts.  

Thanks.  
 

  

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1 hour ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

7b530f6e463b6c9edffcd4c0e17bebbd.pnghere are my stats as you can see i am not bad at the game.

0637512cf0cb8a2874704bbea2661f41.png super uni cv player across about 700+ cv games

i guess i am just a bad player that does not understand basic game mechanics, i should play cv to learn them and how to counter them instead of complaining right?

crazy how every good player in this game dislikes cv?

Standing ovation!!

Or may be there is still a 0.05 improvement to do and you are a whiner who just don't adapt and overcome!

07 sir

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1 hour ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

The best way to just dodge cv is to have your finger ready on the esc key as you enter matchmaking queue and slam that button if there are cv numbers, who would willingly want to play against such a terribly balanced class.

Me. Because seriously, who clicks escape before the MM? If you do that then you shouldn't have clicked Random Battle in the first place.

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Not going to comment further than this .. " Massive AA" Skill is really a terrible choice for improving AA on a Gearing.   In essence you are seriously hampering your AA aura for a one time burst and completely eliminating if from the off side of your sector which a CV must utilize in order to continuously attack a DD..  in essence  you made a Midway's job even easier..  when it's easy anyway.    Midway with HVARs are probably the most devastating plane against DDs period.   1/2 decent pilot and caught alone with no smoke..    meat.    

 

Editing to add note from Wiki with regards to Massive AA commanders skill   

"The behavior of this skill is not intuitive. On ships with decent AA, it removes most of the bonus of Sector Reinforcement. MAAF is useful only on ships with weak AA, where Instantaneous Damage exceeds what could be done by the increase in continuous damage. In general, use only below Tier V on commanders that are not scheduled to move to higher-tier ships."

Edited by iRA6E
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36 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Here is what I dont understand then. If you are sooo good then whats the problem you are complaining about with CVs. Are you saying though you have good stats you still cant figure out how to counter a CV? If so can you detail the specific issues without generalizing what the problem is. One would think CVs as bad as you make them out to be your DD stats would be poor since CV are such an unstoppable terror. Your inflammatory postings are just useless posture if you dont add substance. 

Because there are not CVs in every game, and thankfully most of the people driving CVs are pretty bad (even then, many have a better WR in a CV than other ships). 

I'm sorry, if the only defense against CVs is to stay near your team for AA coverage (which is a gameplay style that most players, even CV players, hate with a passion), there is a problem.

But...WG seems to be taking the side that CVs are balanced...so maybe the lady is right.  Deal with it or move on.  Bring on the subs.....

Edited by Old_Baldy_One

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3 hours ago, TinCanMan_ said:

I discarded this once because I know we got here for some well thought out reason.  Then I took my Gearing and kitted him with Massive AA as a Captain skill and took it for a spin.  Literally in 2 minutes, I was attacked by rocket planes from a Midway.  I did not smoke up because I wanted to see what my massive AA could do and engaged my AA only after I was discovered.  I killed 2 planes and suffed 10k of damage (!!!!) on my 22k Gearing.  3500 of those points are from Survivability expert.  Then I went into a cap to sieze it and was spotted by planes (yes I failed to turn my AA back off so drew him in from 5ks away, I smoked up but was killed at the 1630 mark.  Was this the intention of rocket planes?

I played a unicum CV player once 3 times in the same afternoon.  All DDs destroyed in 10 minutes or less every time.  I know my one anecdote is not an outlier.  

So I went and looked up US Navy destroyers, destroyed in WWII by rockets from planes.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Navy_losses_in_World_War_II#Destroyers_(DD) A fair number (DDs and DEs) were destroyed by kamikazes and a couple by land based planes but maybe there is one or two in the list from a CV.   For all of WW2, the US lost at most 2 DDs or DEs by planes from a CV.  Then I looked up results for the US air to ship rockets (Tiny Tim) developed in time for Okinowa.   https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/tiny-tim-missile/nasm_A19660030000  There is actually one on display at the Simthsonion National Air and Space Mueseum.  The Meusem states, "Tiny Tims sunk at least one Japanese ship and seriously damaged another." 

I understand this is a make believe universe and its a business to keep customers engaged.  

Still, I wonder what the desired outcome was and is it having that effect.  I think you have options to reduce the effect or reduce the number of rocket planes available in this universe and urge you to consider them.  


 

Sounds looke great play from the CV player.

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3 hours ago, TinCanMan_ said:

  I killed 2 planes and suffed 10k of damage (!!!!) on my 22k Gearing.

Then you did something wrong because I can shoot down 2 planes in an Isokaze & take 100 dmg. Honestly Massive AA might be a bad idea since it decreases your Priority AA Sector.

40 minutes ago, TinCanMan_ said:

My observations are rocket planes are noticeably stronger.

How? They don't have the striking power of bombs or torpedoes, and the airframes aren't nearly as durable as dive bombers. Their boost is nowhere near that of torpedo bombers.

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33 minutes ago, TinCanMan_ said:

Wow!  That was interesting.  

My bad for telling an anecdote of one game but it was a decent hook. 

Let me reframe this.  I am not a unique nor exceptional dd player but I play hellova lot of dd.    

I have played 1,818 dd games of which 578 are Gearing games in the last two months. I have a 52% win rate (Gearing and overall) and I survive nearly 1/3 of the time.  Every now and then I have great games and even killed 28 planes (in a Gearing) in one game.   Every now and then, I suck and occaisionally I eat torpedoes.  As a reaction to rocket planes, I have grinded the Euro line and recently earned the Halland.   If I am not qualified to speak up now, when will I be?  If I get called a potato, so be it.  

My observations are rocket planes are noticeably stronger. then other planes  In addition, the attacks by the CV early in the game seem much more effective then late in the game.  In other words, I take 5-7k of damage per strafing and kill a few airplanes in early action.  In more than one game, I have died to 2 strafings of 2 wings of 5 rocket planes within 6 minutes.  Late in the game, I might kill 20 planes on a drive to their carrier.  If your in a dd that doesn't heal and you lose 50% or more hp early you're probably failing to meet your team mates expectations. A selfish player could hide early and score late but while it may not always look like it, I try to be a good team player.  

I appreciate the comments on angling but sometimes your just stuck when the planes arrive and it they are targeting you (loitering over your smoke, etc...) its tough to angle.    

My message is I think the rocket planes are OP.  WG has the data and there are more options available to the game designers that don't dramatically alter the game.  

Its great to see a super unicum player sharing his knowledge and just the other day I saw a minotaur get 9 kills.  Its definitely makes the game more fun to see some of the really good players out there doing it and then in this forum sharing some thoughts.  

Thanks.  
 

  

I believe that I've play with and against you before and remember that you were at least better average in DDs. 

....and at least for DDs, of course rocket planes are OP.  Hoping that the CV player isn't a very good shot isn't exacly what I'd call good strategy, but often that's what it is reduced to.  Otherwise, you hope there some BB somewhere that has his attention.  The only other thing you can do is be in a Halland or Friesland.

Maybe one day they will make the dispersion envelope larger so that rocket runs on DDs are more proportional to their hit pool size, while not affect attacks on larger vessels too much.

 

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1 hour ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

7b530f6e463b6c9edffcd4c0e17bebbd.pnghere are my stats as you can see i am not bad at the game.

0637512cf0cb8a2874704bbea2661f41.png super uni cv player across about 700+ cv games

i guess i am just a bad player that does not understand basic game mechanics, i should play cv to learn them and how to counter them instead of complaining right?

crazy how every good player in this game dislikes cv?

How much better can you get—after all that is clearly what you need🙄

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