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Lady_Athena

How to fight and win against Submarines in Battleships (and any ship) 101 Hand book. + Balance Suggestions

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I've been playing against, and as submarines for awhile now through the tests, and on the live server on several accounts. (I have friends all over the world which I play with on other accounts in other regions.. Except Australia.. cuz.. the ping is horrible :Smile_veryhappy:)

I play all ship types, and many of you will know how pro submarine I am to your extreme displeasure :Smile_glasses:. The biggest argument against submarines being that any ship without ASW is a free kill, and there's NOTHING you can do against that submarine. This post is both to teach you how to fight submarines without ASW, and how to make their lives miserable.

------------------------------------

Things to Remember while reading:

1) Winning or Losing are not the only 2 viable, and helpful things to a team. There is also cancelling each other out, and or simply countering each other. (Example is a battleship tieing up an enemy submarine when your team has no ASW left on the team, but the remaining ships on your team can still cap, and counter whatever else is left. This can still result in a huge boon for your team and a win, even if you can't outright kill it yourself).

2) I'm going to be explaining this from a Battleship point of view, specifically the Fuso, as that's the majority of my games as a Battleship in the submarine games, however every tactic and point I make can be copied for any ship class. Cruisers, and Destroyers can especially benefit from these.

3) Nothing in this game is 100% fool proof, nor is it 100% auto win tactics. Neither are these pointers or tactics against submarines. Yes you can outplay these as a submarine, just like any ship can outplay any other ship. That's not proof for submarines being OP.

4) The "choices" I give you below are all suggestions, tactics, etc. which you should do If it's both safe to do so, and would be a good call.    When I say something like "Sail over the submarine". Please don't be one of those people who responds with "But then the enemy team just focuses you because you're too far ahead and you're dead!" Obviously then that was a stupid decision to make, and I'm not telling you to sail into the middle of the enemy team.. Obviously you should make a different choice at that point. Every tactic I say, and give is under the assumption you know this is the good call, and it's a safe one to make given the circumstances. Sometimes there is no safe call, and sometimes there is no good way to attack and you just need to run away. That's World of Warships.. 

 

In a Fuso I'm averaging about 30% Kills on submarines in a 1v1. 50% canceling each other out, and 20-30% actually being killed by the submarine. This is extremely good averages in a slow, cumbersome, easy target ship with zero direct way to combat a submarine, and these averages get much higher and better in cruisers, and destroyers.

 

Now onto the meat of the post.

----------------------------------------------

 

How Submarine Torpedoes Work:

Submarines can "Ping" a ship, on the Bow, and Stern. When these sections are hit, they keep a lock on the ship, and the torpedoes will aim for these marks. * Citation needed1

When a submarine "pings" both the Bow and Aft of a ship, the torpedoes home in on the center of the two marks. Or rather, home in on the center of the ship itself.

Hitting ANYTHING else of the ship will cancel the ping and no lock will happen. (Current locks stay in place until the timer runs out).

The torpedo turn radius, homing time, and agility is directly dependent on how many locks are in place on the ship. Torpedoes get a much wider, slower, and lazy turn radius when only 1 lock is present.

Very Important -> Once a torpedo turns and is pointed at the target or central point of the lock, or locks. A hidden timer starts to count down, during this count down the torpedo will continue to stay locked onto the point and follow it. (Again with only 1 lock this can easily be avoided as the turn radius is very very wide and slow). Once the timer finishes, the torpedoes go "Dead" and run straight. *Citation needed2

* Citations: 1: Not sure if the torpedo is aiming directly for the mark.
                     2: I can't figure out exactly why some torpedoes seem to go "stupid" almost immediately, while others seem to stay locked for an extended period. I'm assuming this is the case of what is written from my experiments.

Avoiding Submarine Torpedoes:

This is the meat and largest portion of this thread, and my biggest pet peeve. Countless times I've seen threads open where DD's and other players are proclaiming Submarines are OP because they point blank bop them with torpedoes and kill them.. I do not want to be hearing this crap from destroyers that can yolo torp a battleship point blank and come out alive with a high% chance in a 1v1. Cruisers, and DD's have no excuse to be getting killed by Submarines. Unless that said submarine caught you off guard and got a perfect lock on you broadside, and even then it's questionable depending on the ship, distance, etc. (sometimes you will get killed and it was just a good kill by the submarine. It happens.) Alright, so how do you avoid this?

Basically.. you want to get close.. even in ships that have no ASW. close distance is the enemy of a submarine, and that is the only place they can actively engage you. Weird, I know, their engagement area is their counter.

You always want to stay Bow or Stern on to a submarine, resulting in them only being able to ping you once, and staying at an angle to them. (The awesome part of submarines, is that all of these tactics I'll explain work the moment the submarine is within engagement distance). Keeping your bow or stern dead on to a submarine cancels its ability to double lock you. Resulting in their torpedoes turn radius being a non factor in 90% of the cases, even for slow dumb battleships. (I've rarely gotten hit with torpedoes engaging a submarine in a Fuso for example).

 

1887975394_AvoidingSubmarines.thumb.jpg.490e877fdf99e83fff5dc175142e8ee6.jpg

Fig 1: Is what I see DD and cruiser players do when trying to engage a submarine. STOP DOING THAT. of course you're going to get killed if you run straight at it.. There is no time to avoid if the submarine is patient.

Fig2a: Coming straight at a submarine from an angle (again keeping your bow, or stern pointed mostly directly at him), will result in a very low chance he torpedoes you, unless he waits for the very last second, and even then can result in a high chance of a miss.

Fig2b: Result of the torpedo unable to track and turn sharp enough due to only 1 lock even when point blank.

Note: Battleships actually get a benefit others don't in this scenario, as they can be at more extreme angles, and turns and still the submarine will be unable to hit their stern marker due to how "fat" Battlehips are in general. Their bulge, torpedo protection, and simply wider middle will often times negate the sonar ping until the Battleship is nearly 20-40 degree's in the turn. (Depending on distance and Battleship. Some are much wider than others, while some are slim).

 

Closing the Distance: How to engage a submarine, even without ASW.

So why close the distance? There are several reasons.

1) It becomes increasingly dangerous for the submarine. The submarine must be at periscope depth to replenish batteries (unless its going at a quarter speed), and at this depth and a little under it, it is susceptible to even secondary batteries, and HE shells, etc. (Cool fact: Submarines can stay on fire even while submerged. :Smile_glasses:

2) You can keep your eyes and spot it much easier if it tries to porpoise (Bop up and down between periscope depth and under).

3) Allows you to keep it on the defensive, and allows you to better control the engagement.

4) Submarine torpedoes do not ascend, and descent well, making it much more difficult for them to hit you. Especially with only 1 lock.

 

Note: "Engaging" a submarine does not outright mean destroying it. Simply keeping yourself the aggressor, and keeping the submarine on the defensive. Battleships will have a much more difficult time destroying a submarine, and should expect mostly to simply keeping the submarine annoyed and helpless to his team, due to the fact the submarine can more easily play around your horribly slow turret traverse speeds. (Secondaries are still very dangerous to a submarine though). Cruisers without ASW are still very dangerous to a submarine using the tactics described here, as they can keep their guns pointed and quickly swing them around (most cruisers anyway), and keep pelting the submarine with HE.

It's still very much a whack a mole event, but the submarine will have extremely difficult time avoiding and getting away for an extended period, since it will not be able to replenish his batteries much, giving him almost no chance of torpedoing you unless he really outplays you. As he cannot even lock you more than once.  Which he deserves the kill at that point.  (This is mostly how Anti Submarine warfare worked.. Whack a mole style find you, try to whack you, and find you again, rinse repeat.)

1302215965_SubmarineDepth.thumb.jpg.9fd451b09bd0cab95e6cc8020c4cbc7f.jpg

Fig 3: Allowing a submarine to stay at periscope, or shallow depth allows the torpedoes to have easy shots at any range as depth is no factor. (Refer to Fig 1)

Fig 4: By forcing the submarine to submerge to even 20m and closing the gap, results in the torpedoes over shooting the target. (Keep in mind the depth, and nationality of submarine matters. U.S. Submarines have 10km range so you'll need to close the gap a bit more. While Russian, and German Submarines you are already at the proper ranges nearly the moment they go below 10m, as their engagement ranges are 6km and 5km each. Only needing to close the gap another 2km to start being immune to their torpedoes.

Note to submarine captains: One way you can outplay this is by surfacing quickly. Your submarines nose will start pointing up giving the torpedoes an already upwards angle making their time to surface much shorter. Be very careful doing this, as this will result in you surfacing right next to your opponent in most cases, and if you need to do this tactic you're already at dangerously close distances. The window for this opportunity is extremely short It's usually just a better choice to dive as deep as possible and attempt to break contact. You'll also need to be moving forward (or reverse) as fast as possible to make the nose bank up at a high enough angle.

 

Fighting an invisible enemy:

Ok, so that's all great, but now he's dived down and is invisible to me. What now? Now you're fighting as historical as this game will ever be, and has ever been. You're playing cat and mouse, and will be using similar tactics actual Anti submarine captains used. Except in this case, you have one major advantage they didn't have. You can force your opponent to show himself. Even if it's for a short duration.

If he's been firing frequently, and pinging. He's going to be low on batteries, and you just closed the gap making it very difficult for him to regenerate it.  He now has 2 options. Dive deep and stay slow at a quarter speed to regenerate his battery, or go full flank and attempt to break contact, swing around and attempt another strike.

This is the point where both captains can outplay each other (or even outplay themselves).

If you know he's low on battery, you want to slow down and attempt to stay as close to over top of him as possible. Forcing him into Option 2.

If he stays in Option 1, you've already mostly won this engagement, or canceled him out if you're in a Battleship. He won't have the ability to conduct an attack on you until he has enough battery to ping you at least once, and avoiding torpedoes without a lock, or 1 lock is very simple even for a battleship. (Unless he severely outmaneuvered you). Cruisers will be able to ghost him more easily and punish him if he surfaces enough to try to get a shot off. This is important, as you're trying to keep him low on battery, and slow, giving yourself the advantage. Why is this so important to play his battery? It's your main way to outplay him.

On one hand, if he tries to ping you and use up his battery he'll be forced to go to periscope depth for an extended period to replenish batteries enough, and only 1 ping won't be enough to really be a cause for concern.

On the other hand, if he refuses to ping you, he still needs to surface to periscope depth or higher again making him a prime target and hittable to any ship in range to allow his torpedoes to have the proper depth to even trigger and explode.

Cool Fact: Torpedoes will not ascend or descent without a lock. A Dumb torpedo (torpedo with no locks), will continue traveling straight at the depth they were launched.

 

Note: At this point don't go too fast, but don't go too slow either. It will take practice to find that right speed, but it's more than possible. Too fast you can over shoot, or create too much distance with yourself and him too quickly giving him a better chance and opportunity to get a good torp shot off, even if its 2 dumb torpedoes with no locks. Going too slow makes it easier for him to again gain distance, and get those easy shots off.

 

Note 2: Your main goal is making him WANT to take Option 2, but you not allowing him too... Don't let him break off, and get the distance, just make that be his only real option.

 

Note 3: Battleships and cruisers with spotter, or fighter planes, can use these to spot the submarine from farther away if he tries to surface just outside of his detection ranges.

 

Closing Points:

You will not always be able to engage, or handle a submarine 1 on 1. Sometimes his teammates are too close, or he or you are not in a position to do so. If that's the case, back off. Especially if you're in a battleship.  Keeping your stern to him and running away will be very easy to dodge his torpedoes as their locks will be nearly non existent. Keeping that in mind, always, always try to play with teammates around you. This isn't just for Anti Submarine safety, but it's just in general better to do regardless. You'll find yourself in much more interesting, fun, and memorable moments when you play as a teammate. Even teammates who aren't trying to play as a teammate will by proxy end up doing it in most cases (sometimes you still get those completely oblivious players). It ultimately makes the game far more enjoyable and fun, and submarines become almost a non factor at that point until end game, where all of my tactics and strategies will be easy and safe to pull off.

 

Finishing Points and Remembers:

- Always assume the submarine will be shooting at you.

- Always be ready to avoid it, and be in a position which you can should it shoot on you.

- Always try to be bow, or stern on to a submarine at all times when in its kill zone. (THe distance and angles which it can shoot at you).

- Always watch the mini map for its facing direction.

 

 

Balance Suggestions:

- The only real balance change I'd give WGing to bring submarines more in balance is the battery regeneration. Battery regeneration should only happen at periscope depth or higher. quarter speed underwater to preserve battery is fine for balance reasons, (as the submarine still needs to use that battery to ping to be of any real threat). Meaning Quarter speed under periscope depth your battery is neither depleting, or gaining. This allows the battery to be a mechanic which players can play around even without ASW (As my post above explains how), without neutering and killing the class entirely, and still allowing it to have some teeth against ships it should counter.

 

 

If you have any suggestions, comments, fixes for things I got wrong, or additions. Please leave a comment!

 

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Questions:

1.  As torps stops tracking at 1 km (they continue on their last computed turn rate), does anyone know what (if anything) a ping gives you on torp launched at or inside of 1km?  Does it give a turn rate out of the tube that is locked thereafter, or does it just fire straight? 

2. Is the second ping just a binary that tells a torp to ignore the torp belt (even it it hits the torp belt)?  As such, does a second ping on a torp fired inside of 1 km, even if no tracking is conducted, still get the benefit of the ping?

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24 minutes ago, Soshi_Sone said:

Questions:

1.  As torps stops tracking at 1 km (they continue on their last computed turn rate), does anyone know what (if anything) a ping gives you on torp launched at or inside of 1km?  Does it give a turn rate out of the tube that is locked thereafter, or does it just fire straight? 

2. Is the second ping just a binary that tells a torp to ignore the torp belt (even it it hits the torp belt)?  As such, does a second ping on a torp fired inside of 1 km, even if no tracking is conducted, still get the benefit of the ping?

These are all questions I've of tested myself if we would be allowed to bring submarines into a custom battle. Which we sadly cannot. (I'm assuming its because some maps still have haven't been converted for underwater).

Until we can do this, those questions, and my guide will have to be assumptions on some things when it comes to the exact workings of submarine torpedoes, and the pings.

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Was looking to learn something and then your own bias started to show through, where rather than be impartial, you started saying things like 'I don't wanna here this crap'.

And then I thought oh well...and am moving on.

 

If only you'd stuck to just letting us know what you'd learnt. :Smile_honoring:

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13 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Was looking to learn something and then your own bias started to show through, where rather than be impartial, you started saying things like 'I don't wanna here this crap'.

And then I thought oh well...and am moving on.

 

If only you'd stuck to just letting us know what you'd learnt. :Smile_honoring:

If only you had kept reading, and realize it wasn't bias at all. I simply don't want to hear bad arguments when it's so easy to not die (as I continue to explain, which... if you had kept reading. You'd realize the only real bias here is you refusing to change your perspective).

 

Your loss in the end. Stay ignorant friend. :Smile_honoring:  (Not calling you stupid, or over all ignorant.. but you're refusing to learn and screaming bias keeping yourself ignorant of tactics..)

 

 

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If you are in a fast BB consider out capping the sub, if you are faced with an endgame one on one. This is actually easier to win than if you were against a DD one vs one.

If you are in a slow BB one v one against a sub well.... just like against a DD you are in deep trouble.

As the op posted keep your eye on the mini map. I have deleted subs from across the map. RN BB's are exceptionally good at this as you may all ready have HE loaded.

 

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8 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

"How to tolerate bad game design 101 -- it's never the game's fault, always yours."  

:Smile_sceptic:

The failure here is your perception that the game must only ordain to your personal exact feelings of what "good game design" is, and it's bad otherwise, and shame on anyone else who likes it, and finds strategy to it, and deep game-play.

 

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Just now, Lady_Athena said:

The failure here is your perception that the game must only ordain to your personal exact feelings of what "good game design" is, and it's bad otherwise, and shame on anyone else who likes it, and finds strategy to it, and deep game-play.

 

Yeah, that's "the failure".  :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Yeah, that's "the failure".  :Smile_teethhappy:

Yes it is :)

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3 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

The failure here is your perception that the game must only ordain to your personal exact feelings of what "good game design" is, and it's bad otherwise, and shame on anyone else who likes it, and finds strategy to it, and deep game-play.

 

because this exact line doesnt apply to your idea that subs and cv are fine.

Что означает KEKW? (RU)

 

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Just now, Lady_Athena said:

If only you had kept reading, and realize it wasn't bias at all. I simply don't want to hear bad arguments when it's so easy to not die (as I continue to explain, which... if you had kept reading. You'd realize the only real bias here is you refusing to change your perspective).

 

Your loss in the end. Stay ignorant friend. :Smile_honoring:

 

 

So you refusing to hear anything you don't believe is true (or that you believe is crap) - isn't being bias....and me not wanting to listen to you preach, but wishing you had just given the facts is me being bias? :Smile_amazed: :Smile_teethhappy:

Remain ignorant.....there are plenty of other people who are giving advice, but maybe you think you are the only one worth listening to?

Please stick to your bias, don't bother to listen why someone who wanted to learn from what you had to offer, turned away because of your attitude - the attitude you continued to show in your reply to me.

Believe me, it is no loss. :Smile_honoring:

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1 minute ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

because this exact line doesnt apply to your idea that subs and cv are fine.

Что означает KEKW? (RU)

 

Of course it does..
 

Which proves my exact point that your failure is exactly what I said it was :) You fail to understand you are not the center of the universe, and your perception of what is fine for the game is not the holy trinity of truth.

The fact you couldn't figure that simple comment out amazes me..

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Just now, _WaveRider_ said:

So you refusing to hear anything you don't believe is true (or that you believe is crap) - isn't being bias....and me not wanting to listen to you preach, but wishing you had just given the facts is me being bias? :Smile_amazed: :Smile_teethhappy:

Remain ignorant.....there are plenty of other people who are giving advice, but maybe you think you are the only one worth listening to?

Please stick to your bias, don't bother to listen why someone who wanted to learn from what you had to offer, turned away because of your attitude - the attitude you continued to show in your reply to me.

Believe me, it is no loss. :Smile_honoring:

1) I did just give facts....

2) I never said I wouldn't listen to anything... only that I don't wanna hear that 1 thing, when I just proved it's wrong...

 

I'm sorry you can't see that.

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2 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

I

Things to Remember while reading:

1) Winning or Losing are not the only 2 viable, and helpful things to a team. There is also cancelling each other out, and or simply countering each other. (Example is a battleship tieing up an enemy submarine when your team has no ASW left on the team, but the remaining ships on your team can still cap, and counter whatever else is left. This can still result in a huge boon for your team and a win, even if you can't outright kill it yourself).

4) The "choices" I give you below are all suggestions, tactics, etc. which you should do If it's both safe to do so, and would be a good call.    When I say something like "Sail over the submarine". Please don't be one of those people who responds with "But then the enemy team just focuses you because you're too far ahead and you're dead!" Obviously then that was a stupid decision to make, and I'm not telling you to sail into the middle of the enemy team.. Obviously you should make a different choice at that point. Every tactic I say, and give is under the assumption you know this is the good call, and it's a safe one to make given the circumstances. Sometimes there is no safe call, and sometimes there is no good way to attack and you just need to run away. That's World of Warships.. 

 

There are two key issues with subs as they stand, and they are easily addressed in above quote:

1) Cancelling out a player is not fun. People play games to have fun, so any game mechanic that forces you to do something boring is a bad mechanic. Nobody has been clamoring for a mini game of "sit on top of a sub while your teammates maybe do something useful to secure a win" 

4) Yoloing into anything is a bad idea, but the methods of dealing with subs in a non-ASW kitted ship in the current Submarine Battles mode is essentially suicide in random battles unless you and the sub are the last two boats left alive. While bots may be content to shoot at the maneuvering ships closest to them, human players will immediately change targets to the stationary/quasi-stationary BB/CA sitting on top of the sub. Also, while charging the sub is suicide for you, if there are no ASW boats on your side of the map, the sub is free to push as much as it pleases, meaning you now need to move into enemy fire, or away from objectives. This goes back to  point one, where the sub mechanics create an unfun situation. 

On the other hand, your suggestions for countering a sub are spot on, and definitely work 1 vs 1 much of the time. 

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9 minutes ago, paradat said:

If you are in a fast BB consider out capping the sub, if you are faced with an endgame one on one. This is actually easier to win than if you were against a DD one vs one.

If you are in a slow BB one v one against a sub well.... just like against a DD you are in deep trouble.

As the op posted keep your eye on the mini map. I have deleted subs from across the map. RN BB's are exceptionally good at this as you may all ready have HE loaded.

 

Thank you, I forgot to add about end game and capping.

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Just now, VeatherVitch said:

There are two key issues with subs as they stand, and they are easily addressed in above quote:

1) Cancelling out a player is not fun. People play games to have fun, so any game mechanic that forces you to do something boring is a bad mechanic. Nobody has been clamoring for a mini game of "sit on top of a sub while your teammates maybe do something useful to secure a win" 

4) Yoloing into anything is a bad idea, but the methods of dealing with subs in a non-ASW kitted ship in the current Submarine Battles mode is essentially suicide in random battles unless you and the sub are the last two boats left alive. While bots may be content to shoot at the maneuvering ships closest to them, human players will immediately change targets to the stationary/quasi-stationary BB/CA sitting on top of the sub. Also, while charging the sub is suicide for you, if there are no ASW boats on your side of the map, the sub is free to push as much as it pleases, meaning you now need to move into enemy fire, or away from objectives. This goes back to  point one, where the sub mechanics create an unfun situation. 

On the other hand, your suggestions for countering a sub are spot on, and definitely work 1 vs 1 much of the time. 

 

1) Not true always. I find it fun engaging a submarine and keep it occupied while I lob shells across the map in a BB. Knowing you're being hella frustrating for another player can give you quite the good feeling.

 

Also, yes you can't always deal with a submarine right off the bat. All these tactics have to do with mid/late game of course, and that's perfectly fine to me.

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1 minute ago, Lady_Athena said:

Thank you, I forgot to add about end game and capping.

No prob. There are always options lol. Some one on one just suck but that existed before subs and really should exist. If every one on one was "fair" this game would get very boring very quickly. 

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1 minute ago, Lady_Athena said:

1) I did just give facts....

2) I never said I wouldn't listen to anything... only that I don't wanna hear that 1 thing, when I just proved it's wrong...

 

I'm sorry you can't see that.

I'm sorry too!

That's what I've been trying to tell you; if you'd just given the facts I'd have happily read on.

 

On another note, if you can, step away and look at the thread and your interaction with others, you have attacked those that have made a negative comment about subs. However much you like subs, some will not, addressing them negatively only brings your own thread down. :Smile_honoring:

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tbf, i wouldnt call closing the distance so they cant hit you with torps "fighting" them, its more mitigating them to do damage to you than anything, fighting would entail that you were doing damage to them, which BBs and CAs are only able to do by shelling them on the surface and ramming and thats easily avoided by subs 

although if its a BB or CA with Hydro it can sit on top of the sub and keep it Hydro'd until a DD or CL can get there and DC it

f2ztJTB.gif

Edited by tcbaker777

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6 minutes ago, Lady_Athena said:

Of course it does..
 

Which proves my exact point that your failure is exactly what I said it was :) You fail to understand you are not the center of the universe, and your perception of what is fine for the game is not the holy trinity of truth.

The fact you couldn't figure that simple comment out amazes me..

i will save these comments for every time you try to tell someone they are wrong and you are correct about everything :)

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Just now, Lady_Athena said:

Yes it is :)

Since you fail to grasp sarcasm, no, it's not. 

The failure in this community is that no matter how objectively fundamentally bad and broken some aspect of the game is, there will be those who make every effort to point the finger not at problem, but at anyone who "dares" criticize it.  

Leaving the majority of surface ships functionally unarmed against a new unit type is fundamentally, objectively bad design.  BBs, CAs, CVs, and most CLs, have no functional means of fighting back against submarines.

Allowing the new unit type to easily manipulate its novel mechanics to avoid risk is fundamentally, objectively bad design.   The submarines at present are easily able to change depths to avoid damage, and are immune to the fire from most surface ships at a very shallow depth.  

You can post all the mitigation tactics you want, it won't change the real problem or make the design better.  You can blather on about "teamwork" all you want, it won't make any real teamwork exist in this game.  You can pretend that it's possible to keep your "teammates" alive, it won't make that true, either.   You can insult everyone who doesn't share your own personal little opinion, and it won't change the facts. 

 

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2 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

tbf, i wouldnt call closing the distance so they cant hit you with torps "fighting" them, its more mitigating them to do damage to you than anything, fighting would entail that you were doing damage to them, which BBs and CAs are only able to do by shelling them on the surface and ramming

It's "fighting" them in the same way that "just dodge" is the supposed "counterplay" against enemy aircraft.  

 

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1 minute ago, KilljoyCutter said:

It's "fighting" them in the same way that "just dodge" is the supposed "counterplay" against enemy aircraft.  

 

Well it is tactically sound idea. Particularly if you are in a slow BB and you have wandered into the torp window of a sub. 

Dodging does work better than sailing strait lol. 

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