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Estimated_Prophet

Yeah, not seeing that 'fun' so much... (subs)

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Yeah, not really seeing that fun.

Five games tonight. Can't take any more of this.

Pretty much all like this. One game a low health DD rammed me and it died.

https://replayswows.com/replay/94291#stats 

Other than that, nothing of any real note happened. Next to impossible to control depth; next to impossible to keep oriented when trying to ping, versus which way your topedoes are pointing; no 'excitement;' plenty of frustration.

@Pulicat, @Antean, not really seeing why that frustration is worth dealing with.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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3 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Yeah, not really seeing that fun.

Five games tonight. Can't take any more of this.

Pretty much all like this. One game a low health DD rammed me and it died.

https://replayswows.com/replay/94291#stats 

Other than that, nothing of any real note happened. Next to impossible to control depth; next to impossible to keep oriented when trying to ping, versus which way your topedoes are pointing; no 'excitement;' plenty of frustration.

@Pulicat, @Antean, not really seeing why that frustration is worth dealing with.

not to sound mean or anything, but it can just be either a skill oriented class, or you must need more time to allow yourself to adjust to the systems.

I don't have any of these issues, and i find the class a lot of fun. When you get into the thick of it, there's a lot you got to keep track of.

This class can be considered an inverse of carriers, requiring low amount of attention, since all you pay attention to is the direction you want to attack from and flak.

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10 minutes ago, Pulicat said:

This class can be considered an inverse of carriers, requiring low amount of attention, since all you pay attention to is the direction you want to attack from and flak.

RTS carriers were easier than this.

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7 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

RTS carriers were easier than this.

probably, because they were at your leisure.

Everything else you've dumped thousands of games into, that all play on a similar field. subs, you've barely put in effort.

These aren't meant to be a quick thrill right out of the gate. If you don't want to put in the time to learn, then decline the challenge.

But don't make it out to seem they're near impossible.

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Try playing closer to periscope depth. It’s hard to land pings at first if you can’t see where they hit. Once you get the hang of it you’ll be landing them deeper and further. Go slow so you don’t over commit and viola! Took me a few games to learn but I’ve had a few 5 kill games and some over 100k. Support, positioning, and target selection matter. They’re not easy to play well though. My brother tried 3 times and threw in the towel. He just couldn’t manage navigating depth.

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This will be how WG deals with this problem, first they will buff the crap out of subs to the point they are OP, then they will have some type of "Sub RW" that will calm the players down enough so all the sub fan boys can crap on the players trying to point out that subs don't work.  The Sub RW will then make subs so op for a short time (while WG says they are "collecting data) that they will be able to sell premium Soviet subs, then the will slowly roll back subs in till a new group of players play the game and wont know about how fun it was before subs infested it.

So glad I stopped paying any money in to this game.

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3 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Next to impossible to control depth; next to impossible to keep oriented when trying to ping, versus which way your topedoes are pointing; no 'excitement;' plenty of frustration.

Once you dive, if you take your finger off the C key the Sub levels out - I don't yet do depths well other than just 'diving'.

Pinging underwater is difficult.

On the contrary, I find there's plenty of excitement playing Subs.

Frustrating? Yes, until one starts getting the 'hang' of the things, lol.

3 hours ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Try playing closer to periscope depth.

This is what I am doing tho I need to learn more to be an underwater Sub.

3 hours ago, Pulicat said:

These aren't meant to be a quick thrill right out of the gate

Agreed, they certainly are not. Like the old RTS CVs (as opposed to the simpleton farce reworked CVs).

 

3 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

RTS carriers were easier than this.

Yes, I would agree with you here. Subs likely have even a steeper learning curve than RTS CVs. Nothing inherently wrong with exercising some brain cells  :Smile_glasses:.

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6 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Yeah, not really seeing that fun.

Five games tonight. Can't take any more of this.

Pretty much all like this. One game a low health DD rammed me and it died.

https://replayswows.com/replay/94291#stats 

Other than that, nothing of any real note happened. Next to impossible to control depth; next to impossible to keep oriented when trying to ping, versus which way your topedoes are pointing; no 'excitement;' plenty of frustration.

@Pulicat, @Antean, not really seeing why that frustration is worth dealing with.

I beg to differ (yes this is from pts. But they are identical builds and I have done this several times in live to players.)

https://clips.twitch.tv/IncredulousPiercingElephantFrankerZ
 

go read up on Dudley Morris (sp). 

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7 hours ago, Pulicat said:

These aren't meant to be a quick thrill right out of the gate. If you don't want to put in the time to learn, then decline the challenge.

Then perhaps yourself and others who apparently have found them so easy to use should stop making them out to be so?

It great that you have, but not everyone is you.

Quote

But don't make it out to seem they're near impossible.

After the three PT and now, I’m not so sure.

7 hours ago, KnifeInUrNeck said:

Try playing closer to periscope depth. It’s hard to land pings at first if you can’t see where they hit. Once you get the hang of it you’ll be landing them deeper and further. Go slow so you don’t over commit and viola! Took me a few games to learn but I’ve had a few 5 kill games and some over 100k. Support, positioning, and target selection matter. They’re not easy to play well though. My brother tried 3 times and threw in the towel.

22k games and I still can’t consciously position strategically.

Tactically I do well enough, but I almost never have big games like players who seem to rack up Confederate and High Caliber like it’s nothing.

Quote

He just couldn’t manage navigating depth.

Biggest issue for me.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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4 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Then perhaps yourself and others who apparently have found them so easy to use should stop making them out to be so?

I never said they were easy, I said they have a lot of advantages against other ships currently and they are fun when aggressive. 

Am I making them out to be easy because I play them well? Nothing I can do about that.

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She: "Jingles says they're fun."

He: "He's easily amused."

She: "Well, maybe.  I wonder if Rita likes them."

He: "Hmm. If subs attract women, I might have to re-think my position."

She: "Hound!"

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1 hour ago, Pulicat said:

I never said they were easy, I said they have a lot of advantages against other ships currently and they are fun when aggressive.

Of course. The same with any ship.

Quote

Am I making them out to be easy because I play them well? Nothing I can do about that.

I actually considered you might say such. Very true. Nothing can really be said, as there isn’t any legitimate counter.

(-)

As to an early comment you made;

Starting out I had to write down referencing for all the controls and hotkeys on index cards, and refer to them in the middle of games to not completely potato.

I took me a year or more of beating my head against a wall to be able to use RTS carriers, starting back in 2016; and I never did really learn to effectively use any of the manual attacks.

It’s taken me another year to get back to anything close to effective with the current mess; and dodging AA and slingshot are still a mostly pointless endeavor.

Subs are more of the same.

Hooray you and others take to them so well; but as I said; I am not you; because of how my thinking is wired or whatever.

I like my little small part of the game, and I’ll not quit like many have said; but my head is sore, and I’m tiered of having to spend a year or more learning some new mechanic.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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Subs are a really cool concept, and yes they're not polished yet. That being said, they are also a royal pain in the [edited]. Locking targets with the pings takes a bit to try and figure out as unlike surface ships, there is not range finder and that makes it difficult for someone like myself who's not very experienced and basically relies on the rangefinder. Once locked, you've also got to continue to ping the target which that really doesn't make sense since when they get within 1km they act like normal torpedoes again anyways. The only time I personally have had the torpedoes actually hit something was from periscope depth or on the surface and I gave up on pings to use the torpedoes like any other surface ship.  Every time I lock on and fire from the deeps, the torpedoes go off and do some random stuff instead of going to the target. My biggest issue though is the fragility of them. A single destroyer with depth charges will destroy you with a single round of depth charges. You can't out run the destroyer, you maneuver underwater like you're the offspring of a battleship and a carrier, and even going to max depth with the consumable you're still taking a lot of damage with flooding and fire from the charges. As someone who's waited for subs for a long time, I'm very disappointed in them. The frustration of trying to use them when you haven't had the ability to spend hours/days playing it till you tell everyone else it's easy, makes it so people don't really want to bother with them. Personally, I play this game for the fun of it. I'm not spending all my time every day trying to be the best, or have the coolest ship, because honestly that doesn't interest me. I just want to play the game and have a fun time rather than getting mad because my sub is basically anti-newbie. I get it, they're not a ship for starting off right out the door, but this isn't old school EVE online and should have the learning curve they did. Estimated_Prophet makes a lot of valid points where the controls and gameplay of the ship should be so complex that it requires note cards and study time. Sure, you should need time to get really good with any ship, but that doesn't mean you need to devote hours to just be able to do the basics with it and be at least okay enough to not be the bottom of your team scoreboard.

 

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All well and good...  a brand new vessel to test with 19 point captains to max out their abilities.  Anyone play them with the basic 3 point skill package most premium ships begin with, or do you thing WoW will give all new subs 19 point captains?

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If one can get the pings to lock and home torps, they're real strong.  But judging by the amount of torpedoes that harmlessly criss-crossed around my BBs, that seems to be the rare case.

 

It would be fascinating to see WG release ship stats from Submarine Battles.  I wonder how the various ships are doing in this mode.

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The subs are fine for the time. They could use a working player control deck gun and auto controlled AA if the model have it. The fun part is learning how to hunt in the sub and not getting spotted while learning the controls. Yes every moment in the sub is not action packed. The submarine is the sniper and scout of the fleet  I do not want them to make the subs a point and click ship. So two things will happen with the current system? Either you get good with the subs or you play another ship and complain about how subs are killing the game. BB and CV's have been doing that since day one and guess what? They are still here. They did dumb down the CV's which I think was a bad move on their part. No need to dumb down the subs. They did that with Cv's and looked how that turn out. Now any player in a cv can use them like a pro. Before, you usually came across vets players who were good. I came over from steel ocean when that was online. It had sub play and it worked there. BB's complained there as well about subs but they could one shot things just like here. Must be nice to one shot things and heal too..LoL..Seriously The subs are fine and it take a certain person and mindset to use them properly just like the old  CV's.

Edited by darkgriffin_24

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The deeper you go the harder for ASW to find you, but that not the case, in this game.

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Am close to giving up on subs, as I'm having difficulty adjusting to the mechanics. I fire.  Ping.  Tag the bow target. Ping runs out before I can  tag the rear target.  Torps vanish into the deep.   Rinse, repeat.  No hits.  Meanwhile, the bote seesaws up, down (with no clear WOWS explanation about the difference between C/control C etc.) The whole sub system doesn't seem to work for me.

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On 6/3/2020 at 12:48 AM, Estimated_Prophet said:

Five games tonight. Can't take any more of this.

Only five games, and you already are saying they are not any fun?

 

Play some more games, and you may change your mind.  

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28 minutes ago, Admiral_Mudkip said:

Only five games, and you already are saying they are not any fun?

Play some more games, and you may change your mind.  

According to the records I've kept, 15 total, plus however many I played in the PTs; (15? 20?)

The sub rentals have been wasted on me, maybe ten days left on them?

Not even the attempted bribes bonuses offered by WG have been enough to overcome the negative experience so far; and get me interested in playing any more.

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8 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

According to the records I've kept, 15 total, plus however many I played in the PTs; (15? 20?)

The sub rentals have been wasted on me, maybe ten days left on them?

Not even the attempted bribes bonuses offered by WG have been enough to overcome the negative experience so far; and get me interested in playing any more.

I am sorry to hear that.  

 

I hope that you will eventually find some appreciation for WOWS submarines in the future.  

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Yeah Subs are not for everyone just like how I think DDs are boring :fish_sleep:Yes I think playing DDs is boring that whole sneak around torping everyone is kind boring for me :Smile_hiding:

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There is no escaping for a sub from ASW. It can go deep as it can and you can still find, and sink.

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