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Joe_918145

The submarine live test has turned into a joke WG!

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Starting last night, and getting more prevalent tonight, the sub test is mostly bots in surface ships along with 3 human subs to a team.  Whomever has the best bots wins.  Add in the Personal Challenge to win 3 games in a BB and the game really becomes a joke if you are in a BB.  This not a valid test of submarine game play.  However, I guarantee you that you do not want to be the last ship alive, in a BB, facing multiple enemy subs. 

I did learn you can ram one of the little pests if he comes up to periscope depth.    :Smile_teethhappy:

On a serious note, it looks like WG is attempting to neuter BBs with subs exactly like they did DDs with CVs.  It's really a shame, IMO, where we all appear to be heading.

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6 minutes ago, Joe_918145 said:

Starting last night, and getting more prevalent tonight, the sub test is mostly bots in surface ships along with 3 human subs to a team.  Whomever has the best bots wins.  Add in the Personal Challenge to win 3 games in a BB and the game really becomes a joke if you are in a BB.  This not a valid test of submarine game play.  However, I guarantee you that you do not want to be the last ship alive, in a BB, facing multiple enemy subs. 

I did learn you can ram one of the little pests if he comes up to periscope depth.    :Smile_teethhappy:

On a serious note, it looks like WG is attempting to neuter BBs with subs exactly like they did DDs with CVs.  It's really a shame, IMO, where we all appear to be heading.

Apparently in standard battles if you are Ina BB you can force the sub to surface by getting in their cap.

If you keep moving anyway & make it hard for them to reset you w/torps they need to surface to stop the cap & you can blap them pretty easy...suggest arming HE for that (actually I haven't played any ships in months so only have forum posts to go by...not sure if HE is best for them or not).

Do subs have citadel's or are they cit free like DDs?

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13 minutes ago, Joe_918145 said:

the sub test is mostly bots in surface ships along with 3 human subs to a team. 

So basically, it appears very few want to play in or against subs... shame... if so that would mean a lot of wasted dev time.

 

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Compared to the CV rework, I'll take this any day.

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4 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

So basically, it appears very few want to play in or against subs... shame... if so that would mean a lot of wasted dev time.

Quite the contrary, based on the queue numbers from tonight (1 to 2 each for CVs, CAs, BBs, and DDs; 60+ for subs) people REALLY want to play subs to the point of excluding other classes. This is why they did the random bundles, so that-at least for a short time-only a few people would have access to subs and thus more people playing sub battles would be in surface ships.  That is after all the best way for them to get data on how subs work with a full team of players. I get the feeling they'll be looking closest at the second or third day of testing, when people were starting to get the hang of sub combat and ASW, but there were still hardly any surface ship bots to be seen.

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16 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

the sub test is mostly bots in surface ships along with 3 human subs to a team.

????

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In a way this makes it EASIER to play a regular ship. Bots as targets are less difficult to hit than humans.

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For the next test I strongly encourage wargaming to ration sub attempts by making people play 3 non-sub driving sub games to earn a single sub attempt. This would keep the ration of 1/4 of the players playing subs or max 3 per match. couple this with a much longer queue timer before filling with bots and most people should be able to get into a match in about 1 minute.

We really need to stop getting useless matches such as I just had. Each side had:

Human BB
BOT BB
BOT BB
Human CA (Me in a RN heavy cruiser)
BOT CA
BOT CA
Human DD
BOT DD
BOT DD
Human Sub
Human Sub
Human Sub

Wargaming can learn nothing useful from such a game so we have to have better testing protocols!

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10 minutes ago, Landsraad said:

Quite the contrary, based on the queue numbers from tonight (1 to 2 each for CVs, CAs, BBs, and DDs; 60+ for subs) people REALLY want to play subs to the point of excluding other classes. This is why they did the random bundles, so that-at least for a short time-only a few people would have access to subs and thus more people playing sub battles would be in surface ships.  That is after all the best way for them to get data on how subs work with a full team of players. I get the feeling they'll be looking closest at the second or third day of testing, when people were starting to get the hang of sub combat and ASW, but there were still hardly any surface ship bots to be seen.

It's a shame, because they could just have given better rewards and made the mode a lot more exciting to play surface ships.

Imagine T6 premiums as rentals for the week, a longer combat mission chain to obtain some T6 premiums (play 100 games as a bb, get a Dunkerque), flags/camos, steel, so many easy options. Instead xp for a tier that many/most players already have researched.

Edited by enderland07
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What will happen is WG will do the same thing they did with CV when not enough tested and they needed numbers. They will push Subs to live to get the testing numbers they need and they will stay on live while WG patches in changes. 

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8 minutes ago, Ellyh said:

For the next test I strongly encourage wargaming to ration sub attempts by making people play 3 non-sub driving sub games to earn a single sub attempt. This would keep the ration of 1/4 of the players playing subs or max 3 per match. couple this with a much longer queue timer before filling with bots and most people should be able to get into a match in about 1 minute.

We really need to stop getting useless matches such as I just had. Each side had:

Human BB
BOT BB
BOT BB
Human CA (Me in a RN heavy cruiser)
BOT CA
BOT CA
Human DD
BOT DD
BOT DD
Human Sub
Human Sub
Human Sub

Wargaming can learn nothing useful from such a game so we have to have better testing protocols!

IMHO, WG insn't interested in learning anything from this. They've already made up their minds and will release this joke as is no matter what kind of feedback the players give them.

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20 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

????

You already quoted & responded to that comment from the person that actually made it...why did you requote his statement from where I quoted it & spam me w/question marks about it?

????

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8 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

IMHO, WG insn't interested in learning anything from this. They've already made up their minds and will release this joke as is no matter what kind of feedback the players give them.

Sad, but probably true.

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26 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

It's a shame, because they could just have given better rewards and made the mode a lot more exciting to play surface ships.

Imagine T6 premiums as rentals for the week, a longer combat mission chain to obtain some T6 premiums (play 100 games as a bb, get a Dunkerque), flags/camos, steel, so many easy options. Instead xp for a tier that many/most players already have researched.

This is a fantastic idea. Currently however, it's proving a prime opportunity for players to complete their tier VI CV grinds. :Smile_sceptic:

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42 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Apparently in standard battles if you are Ina BB you can force the sub to surface by getting in their cap.

If you keep moving anyway & make it hard for them to reset you w/torps they need to surface to stop the cap & you can blap them pretty easy...suggest arming HE for that (actually I haven't played any ships in months so only have forum posts to go by...not sure if HE is best for them or not).

Do subs have citadel's or are they cit free like DDs?

Sitting in a cap or moving away won't do anything.  Subs don't need to surface to stop a BB from capping.  Subs will just move up close to a BB and torp it.  The BB won't be able to hit it, so there is no danger to the sub.  If the BB has to move away to stay safe, then they won't be able to cap themselves.

I can see it as a stalemate if a BB and a sub are last in the game.  There might be a change in outcomes depending on where each ship is relative to each other.  If the sub has to chase and catch the BB, the BB will have the upper hand.  If the BB has to find the sub or  capture a cap where the sub is located, then the sub has the upper hand.  A sub can kill the BB, but the BB can't kill the sub unless the sub player does something really stupid.

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13 minutes ago, Murcc said:

Sitting in a cap or moving away won't do anything.  Subs don't need to surface to stop a BB from capping.  Subs will just move up close to a BB and torp it.  The BB won't be able to hit it, so there is no danger to the sub.  If the BB has to move away to stay safe, then they won't be able to cap themselves.

I can see it as a stalemate if a BB and a sub are last in the game.  There might be a change in outcomes depending on where each ship is relative to each other.  If the sub has to chase and catch the BB, the BB will have the upper hand.  If the BB has to find the sub or  capture a cap where the sub is located, then the sub has the upper hand.  A sub can kill the BB, but the BB can't kill the sub unless the sub player does something really stupid.

Guess it depends on the BB you're in...somebody in a Dunkirk posted a replay of him staying mobile & dodging all of the subs torps & forcing the sub to need to surface to stop the cap from finishing & getting the kill when the sub surfaced.

Didn't watch the replay but he said he was staying straight on to the sub & it allowed him to dodge his torps pretty easily.

And based aren't small caps like in domination mode.

 

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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I played about 3 games in the US sub. Meh. I will try again later. I am playing cold as I never went in to the test server. Maybe next week I will figure it out.

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whether or not it is a joke as you infer is immaterial.

 the beating (test) will continue because Subs will be added to the game.

it's like the Borg - assimilation will be total :Smile_playing:

Edited by Antean
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I'm seeing about 2 bots per match only, usually in cruisers.

maybe its a time of day thing?

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1 hour ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

So basically, it appears very few want to play in or against subs... shame... if so that would mean a lot of wasted dev time.

 

I'm personally annoyed because they added the subs while a ranked season is going on. Hard for me to do both, but I guess it didn't really matter to them because most people aren't interested in ranked. 

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3 minutes ago, Dareios said:

I'm seeing about 2 bots per match only, usually in cruisers.

maybe its a time of day thing?

Seemed to get worse as the week has gone on, at least for me. When it started, it was full 12v12. day two, you might get a bot or 2 on a team, usually in a battleship.

Today, it was basically full bot on bot combat, with 3 human submarines per side, and maybe a handful of other human players otherwise scattered between both sides.

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Right now, after a handful of matches driving a sub, I don't really care about subs one way or another. They are weird to operate. They definately don't feel overpowered in my sub-noob hands. They handle horribly despite being a little faster than you'd think. The concealment on surface seems ok-ish for the HP given. The torps seem a bit long ranged for such good concealment. They dive and surface way too quickly. On surface graphics look good but underwater graphics could use more detail. The ping, launch, homing, repinging thing isn't intuitive and I was often wondering "what next". There are no tutorials or training missions I am aware of. I think the Sub GUI is a let down. The aim view, minimap view and drive view are too conventional. This is a very unconventional boat and deserves very distinct and more "integrated" views. I think they should work only as weapon systems or as a vessels separately like carriers. I don't think they should be able to be piloted and fought with like a regular ship. The targeting is more involved so it should be devoted full attention until shots fired and then captain can resume driving controls during reload.

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10 minutes ago, Dareios said:

I'm seeing about 2 bots per match only, usually in cruisers.

maybe its a time of day thing?

You're lucky.   I'd get 2 CA's, 2 BBs, and sometimes a DD in my games. When I ran my Furious, sometimes I'd get more human players.

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Right now, after a handful of matches driving a sub, I don't really understand why this double posted....

Edited by thebigblue
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1 hour ago, ReddNekk said:

WG insn't interested in learning anything from this. They've already made up their minds and will release this joke as is no matter what kind of feedback the players give them.

that is the perception I have too. 

more to the point of the post: there were a lot of surface ship bots, especially BBs. I found the mode boring as a sub and Boring as a BB. there was a lot of spotting, I could not hit anything, i felt like pushing in the BB was dumb until the end, I had the experience were the sub went directly under my BB. we waved at each other. as a sub player i didn't see much, i knew i was spotting a lot, in the german sub i never really got into range to use the torps. the subs were not as fun as i thought they might have been.  The subs spotted everything the CV left remaining. so no more concealment for any ships. the DD was extremely exposed trying to take out subs... 

Edited by skillztowin
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