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axlevought

Depth Charges Don't Damage Surfaced Submarines?

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Is it a bug that a surfaced submarine cannot be damaged by depth charges or is this intended?

-- (edit) In order to be more clear: This was not a request.  This was an inquiry.  I just wanted to make sure as I didn't notice this in videos or other written statements on subs.  It is now answered.

-- (edit #2) In case anyone thinks I was complaining, I was not complaining.  Thanks.

Edited by axlevought
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12 minutes ago, axlevought said:

Is it a bug that a surfaced submarine cannot be damaged by depth charges or is this intended?

You would have to ram them to get the depth charges dropped.  And why use depth charges when you can use main guns on a surfaced submarine?

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20 minutes ago, axlevought said:

Is it a bug that a surfaced submarine cannot be damaged by depth charges or is this intended?

At surface lvl, you can shoot at a Sub... You can torp it... You can't Depth charge it...

Its been that way since PTS.

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It isn't a bug. The issue is that people can stay at 5.9 depth when depth charges are being dropped, and move to 6.1 depth pretty much instantly when the player starts firing at them (because subs can't be damage by shells when they are under 6.0 m).

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It is intended but it is a poor design decision that is the number 1 thing about subs that needs changing. It leads to what is called "Porposing" where the sub can be immune to everything by instantly going above or below the magic 6m depth line to avoid whatever ordinance is being deployed right now. Dropping depth charges pop up to 5.9 m and be immune. Target starts gunning you? drop down to 6.1m and be immune to that too.

This is not hard to do and is the preferred technique of sub players to avoid damage. Subs can also do a pop-up blind fire attack on heavy ships using this technique and dumb fire torps and be below the retalliation line before the opponent can fire. As in up - fire - down in about 3 seconds.

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45 minutes ago, Ellyh said:

It is intended but it is a poor design decision that is the number 1 thing about subs that needs changing. It leads to what is called "Porposing" where the sub can be immune to everything by instantly going above or below the magic 6m depth line to avoid whatever ordinance is being deployed right now. Dropping depth charges pop up to 5.9 m and be immune. Target starts gunning you? drop down to 6.1m and be immune to that too.

This is not hard to do and is the preferred technique of sub players to avoid damage. Subs can also do a pop-up blind fire attack on heavy ships using this technique and dumb fire torps and be below the retalliation line before the opponent can fire. As in up - fire - down in about 3 seconds.

It's a tactic, and no it doesn't make them immune. Shoot, depth charge, shoot.. simple.. either way they are taking damage.

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47 minutes ago, Ellyh said:

It leads to what is called "Porposing" where the sub can be immune to everything by instantly going above or below the magic 6m depth line to avoid whatever ordinance is being deployed right now

Have you played Subs ??? They're by far the fragile class, so fragile in fact,  the humans on the red fleet are considered OP, While the bots are not...

The OP just needs to shoot at the sub or torp it... Once on the surface, its like any other ship class in the game..

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Are we sure DCs don't damage surface ships?  I ask because of an experience I had on the PTS.  I was driving Dallas.  I saw an enemy sub ahead, who has actually gotten within our friendly fleet and has no immediate backups protecting him.  One of our DDs also saw him.  We both moved to attack, and we both reached the sub at virtually the same time, but coming at him from opposite directions.  We passed each other close aboard, but not actually scraping paint, on reciprocal courses, and we both dropped DCs.  Sub died, but I also got a "disciplinary warning" for causing damage to an allied ship.  I didn't actually see the damage, but it almost had to be from my DCs.  I know we were pretty close, but I'm PRETTY sure we never actually touched.

But if it's true, and DCs don't damage surfaced subs or other ships, that should change.

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1 hour ago, The_Jolly_Scourge said:

It is called a Depth charge for a reason.

lol so true. Next thing you know people will want depth charges to shoot down planes. Depth charges explode from submerging. The damage comes from the pressure of the shockwave. That effect doesn't happen on the surface. 

The OP can't have it both ways so if he is given what he wants then why not have the damage other types of ships in the surface?

Op needs a reality check to realize how dumb the request sounds.

Edited by Ban_CV_Complainers

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dude common its in the name!!!! its a depth charge not a surface charge!!!:fish_palm:

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While "but it's a depth charge" makes for a cute semantic quip, it's not true. 

Set a charge off underwater near a surfaced object, and it still takes damage via the same effects.  

For one example, Mythbusters did one of their typical over-the-top tests trying to blow a boat out of the water in one piece (with a charge somewhat larger than a typical DC), and the effect just obliterated the boat.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWIqhSOrNcM

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lady_Athena said:

It's a tactic, and no it doesn't make them immune. Shoot, depth charge, shoot.. simple.. either way they are taking damage.

Timed right you can mitigate a lot of damage and is very easy to go for a ram against the DD for a last kiss goodbye

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15 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

While "but it's a depth charge" makes for a cute semantic quip, it's not true. 

Set a charge off underwater near a surfaced object, and it still takes damage via the same effects.  

For one example, Mythbusters did one of their typical over-the-top tests trying to blow a boat out of the water in one piece (with a charge somewhat larger than a typical DC), and the effect just obliterated the boat.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWIqhSOrNcM

 

 

Can you tell me how you dont blow up your own ship at the same time?

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3 hours ago, The_Jolly_Scourge said:

It is called a Depth charge for a reason.

You are assuming things are named for logical reasons  or reflecting real life behavior in this game.

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Just now, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Can you tell me how you dont blow up your own ship at the same time?

At least on PTS, depth charges didn't seem to do team/self damage -- I dropped them on a bunch of green and red subs slapfighting underwater a couple times, and only the red subs took damage.  

Now, whether THAT is "realistic"...  :Smile_teethhappy:

I was just pointing out that there's nothing special about being on the surface that will protect a boat from the effects of a barrel of explosives going off nearby. 

 

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17 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

When it's on the surface you shoot it with your guns genius :fish_palm:

You can just ram them with any cruiser or some DDs. Subs HP is so low most all other ship classes outlive the ram trade.

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Depth charges could be used on surfaced or shallowly submerged targets, the fuses could be set for very shallow depths, which combined with the area of the pressure wave could absolutely damage a surfaced submarine. In fact most ASW attacks by aircraft using dropped charges were most effective when catching the submarine on the surface. 

The ability for the submarine in game to effortlessly skip from one damage zone to the other without overlap is fairly absurd, especially given the issues of traversing and aiming at submarines at the close range where you might run over them to use depth charges.

Depth charges were even used to scuttle surface ships by dropping shallow patterns near them, and on occasion dropping shallow patterns even damaged the launching ship. 

 

Waiting at 6.1m deep for the destroyer to get within ~1.5km range and start dropping charges, only to skip up to 5.9m as it goes over and struggles to bring guns to bear seems a pretty easy submarine mitigation and unintended consequence of the system. Depth charges should be able to damage surfaced submarines.

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4 hours ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

lol so true. Next thing you know people will want depth charges to shoot down planes. Depth charges explode from submerging. The damage comes from the pressure of the shockwave. That effect doesn't happen on the surface. 

The OP can't have it both ways so if he is given what he wants then why not have the damage other types of ships in the surface?

Op needs a reality check to realize how dumb the request sounds.

This is not a request, but rather an inquiry.  I'm not sure how it came across as a request.

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1 hour ago, mofton said:

Depth charges could be used on surfaced or shallowly submerged targets, the fuses could be set for very shallow depths, which combined with the area of the pressure wave could absolutely damage a surfaced submarine. In fact most ASW attacks by aircraft using dropped charges were most effective when catching the submarine on the surface. 

The ability for the submarine in game to effortlessly skip from one damage zone to the other without overlap is fairly absurd, especially given the issues of traversing and aiming at submarines at the close range where you might run over them to use depth charges.

Depth charges were even used to scuttle surface ships by dropping shallow patterns near them, and on occasion dropping shallow patterns even damaged the launching ship. 

 

Waiting at 6.1m deep for the destroyer to get within ~1.5km range and start dropping charges, only to skip up to 5.9m as it goes over and struggles to bring guns to bear seems a pretty easy submarine mitigation and unintended consequence of the system. Depth charges should be able to damage surfaced submarines.

I have wondered about this and perhaps the solution is to make submarines take much more damage when surfaced than they do currently. It's actually relatively difficult to quickly kill submarines with destroyer guns even at close range (particularly before they would be able to torp you). 

Either way the 6.1m vs 5.9m thing is really lame from a gameplay perspective too, it really needs to be a sliding scale or something.

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In fairness, and for the sake of balance, anything that makes subs more vulnerable than they currently are is probably not the best thing at this point.

Subs are already very easy to take out.

 

Edited by Kuckoo

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3 hours ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Can you tell me how you dont blow up your own ship at the same time?

Same reason a depth charge didn't have to strike the hull of a submarine to damage it. Water doesn't compress.
Ships deploying depth charges either did so at speed or launched them via mortars, far enough away from the ship to minimize damaging themselves.
There are some horrific stories of rescue attempts from sinking ships where depth charges hadn't been secured or disarmed properly.

DISCLAIMER: I know this is a video game, not a sim, yadda yadda yadda....

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2 hours ago, enderland07 said:

I have wondered about this and perhaps the solution is to make submarines take much more damage when surfaced than they do currently. It's actually relatively difficult to quickly kill submarines with destroyer guns even at close range (particularly before they would be able to torp you). 

Either way the 6.1m vs 5.9m thing is really lame from a gameplay perspective too, it really needs to be a sliding scale or something.

I think one solution might be for instance to have the sub only get the 'surface' benefits of speed and recharge to 3m, but then be vulnerable to gunfire down to 10m, and depth charges should work on surfaced ones. 

That way there's no skip-between immunity, and the sub can't just hang at 5.9m, but must dive X meters to reach immunity from surface fire. 

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11 minutes ago, mofton said:

I think one solution might be for instance to have the sub only get the 'surface' benefits of speed and recharge to 3m, but then be vulnerable to gunfire down to 10m, and depth charges should work on surfaced ones. 

That way there's no skip-between immunity, and the sub can't just hang at 5.9m, but must dive X meters to reach immunity from surface fire. 

Plus there needs to be a better way for the surface ship to get at least some info on which way the sub is going. 

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