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After playing subs a bunch..

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1- I see very few subs top list at the end of game even with bot BB in game.

2- Skill level is kind of high, it does take some learning but for some easy others well ... refure to number 3

3- I am seeing a divide like I saw in old RTS CV. There are real good players with subs and real bad players with not much in between.

4- If you are bad at setting up attacks and or have bad awareness you will die pretty easy to DD/CL.

5- The depth charge exploit needs to be fixed. This is where at above a certain depth they will not hurt your sub. 

6- Sub vs Sub is pretty tough when two good Sub players VS each other... good sub player vs bad.... good-bye bad most of the time. But, yes you can sink a sub with another sub under water. Kind of fun really. 

7- I think ships with no depth charges should be given depth charges. Even more so if subs are brought into randoms. 

8- I think the removal of air replenish is fine, but batteries should run out if under water using battery powered engines forcing you to surface till charged. Being able to stay underwater the way it is now is stupid. 

9- Learning how to stay away from or deal with  DD and CL is a must if you want to be any good. Depth charges are killer .. 

10- Radio location skill on captain is a must. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Gospel_
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I figured #6 would be a focus by the devs... you know, the hunter/killer subs feature big in post-war subs... 
Agree with #7 - my Graf Spee can almost do nothing. Sure, I can hydro them but someone else has to drop on 'em. 

#10 - I'm surprised they allow it on subs. 

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22 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I figured #6 would be a focus by the devs... you know, the hunter/killer subs feature big in post-war subs... 
Agree with #7 - my Graf Spee can almost do nothing. Sure, I can hydro them but someone else has to drop on 'em. 

#10 - I'm surprised they allow it on subs. 

RPF should be removed. It's a passive detection system. No ship should have it. A DD or a cruiser that needs longer range detection systems uses RPF. But 4 points can be used for a lot of skills that have a way better impact on your game.

Right now, RPF is a crutch.

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8 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Right now, RPF is a crutch.

Even now, the Terminators are closing in on SRR for advocating removal of their sole real advantage...

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Radio Direction Finding works on submarines that are surfaced or able to extend radio antennas & periscopes from less than 6 meters of depth.
Deeper and Radio Direction Finding ceases to function.

CV's cannot use Radio Direction Finding, period.  At least Submarine Commanders have some options available.

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1 hour ago, Gospel_ said:

 

3- I am seeing a divide like I saw in old RTS CV. There are real good players with subs and real bad players with not much in between.

 

Official training videos are few & far between, and are lacking in "how to" details.  Submarine players have had to learn by trial & error and attempting to apply classic WW-I & WW-II tactics to WOW's faster paced gaming environment.
Also, people have been exchanging information on the forums and in chat during battles.
Given enough time and effort, I figure people will become competent at driving their Submarines.

Some things have worked.  For example, surfacing boldly to avoid depth charges = risk of exposure to gunfire and surface torpedoes.  But, if you've got some "fish" ready and have the sub pointed in the right direction... you might be able to give the opposition a "pretty present".

Movie reference:  "The Enemy Below"
Von Stolberg: [listening on hydrophone] "Now American, turn the right way and I'll give you a pretty present."
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050356/quotes/

 

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I’ve got to wait until I get my first six daily coal containers before I get my submarine before I find out what all the hub bub is about driving a submarine.

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My biggest question after playing is about the sonar. It appears I am able to lock on a ship before firing the torpedo. If locked on before firing will the torpedos acquire the target?  Do I need to re-acquire the target AFTER firing the torpedos?  Do I need to lock on to BOTH the bow and the aft for the torpedos to acquire the target? It would be great for a submarine tutorial so we could actually test the developers ideas and design.  THANK YOU FOR FINALLY ADDING SUBMARINES. Can't have WWI-WWII naval battles without aircraft carriers AND submarines. 

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45 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

I’ve got to wait until I get my first six daily coal containers before I get my submarine before I find out what all the hub bub is about driving a submarine.

....yes the endless coal for tokens is starting to annoy me. random my a**

 

 

from the PTS, the thing that erked me is there is no 'true' periscope depth. If you are too shallow, your conning tower sticks out in addition to your periscope. Too deep, yeah your periscope is out, but your zoom in view is the 'underwater' view.

I also was annoyed at the zooming in and out, you zoom out too far it automatically sets you back to default view.

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Even now, the Terminators are closing in on SRR for advocating removal of their sole real advantage...

LOL, I think you might be right.

I find it quite unusual that I can get target locked by 6 when I enter a cap. Shooting well past cruisers that are clearly shooting at them.

The bot love for my immediate demise is very strong.

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2 hours ago, Gospel_ said:

7- I think ships with no depth charges should be given depth charges. Even more so if subs are brought into randoms. 

 

Giving ship's depth charges that did not have them is a game breaker for me. I know this is an arcade shooter, but that's jumping the shark. Why not give DDs a float plane?  At the same time, a ship shouldn't be defenseless. Which has never stopped WG before, as DD vs CV. I know subs are coming to randoms, but they're a terrible fit. Especially if BBs and Carriers get depth charges. 

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Tomorrow, I get my rentals.

Captains, I sail in to history.

Because either I am going to be meh with the ship type, or ...

"He broke the subs. Now nobody wants to play against him. Run, hide, it doesn't matter. He will find you, and sink you. He is a hunter killer. He must be stopped. We need to distract him or something or players will be complaining."

I reckon I will break out the chronograph and see how many I get. I loaded my boat with a few brooms. (Eats an 🍎)

Meanwhile in botland..."Ohhhhhh,  Nooooooo! Mr Bill!

 

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6 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Tomorrow, I get my rentals.

Captains, I sail in to history.

Because either I am going to be meh with the ship type, or ...

"He broke the subs. Now nobody wants to play against him. Run, hide, it doesn't matter. He will find you, and sink you. He is a hunter killer. He must be stopped. We need to distract him or something or players will be complaining."

I reckon I will break out the chronograph and see how many I get. I loaded my boat with a few brooms. (Eats an 🍎)

Meanwhile in botland..."Ohhhhhh,  Nooooooo! Mr Bill!

 

Sailed with my first rental today.  Scored no hits, sighted nothing to my knowledge, got sunk.  Ran out of battery quickly and couldn't surface because of all the enemy ships but did fire some torpedoes without ping... and saw the ship easily evade them.  And yet, I still made money and earned a dollop of experience.   I'm not expecting to use these things much... I don't feel they are worth the effort to master.

So, good luck with your rentals and I hope you do break them.

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3 hours ago, Gospel_ said:

1- I see very few subs top list at the end of game even with bot BB in game.

2- Skill level is kind of high, it does take some learning but for some easy others well ... refure to number 3

3- I am seeing a divide like I saw in old RTS CV. There are real good players with subs and real bad players with not much in between.

4- If you are bad at setting up attacks and or have bad awareness you will die pretty easy to DD/CL.

5- The depth charge exploit needs to be fixed. This is where at above a certain depth they will not hurt your sub. 

6- Sub vs Sub is pretty tough when two good Sub players VS each other... good sub player vs bad.... good-bye bad most of the time. But, yes you can sink a sub with another sub under water. Kind of fun really. 

7- I think ships with no depth charges should be given depth charges. Even more so if subs are brought into randoms. 

8- I think the removal of air replenish is fine, but batteries should run out if under water using battery powered engines forcing you to surface till charged. Being able to stay underwater the way it is now is stupid. 

9- Learning how to stay away from or deal with  DD and CL is a must if you want to be any good. Depth charges are killer .. 

10- Radio location skill on captain is a must. 

 

 

 

 

Sorry to disagree:

1. New class, dpm is on the low side. Not indicative.

2-3. Maybe not as easy as airplanes. Still very easy.

4. Dying is easy in any ship in the wrong circumstances.

5. Better still, when you are cornered wait at 6 mts for the DD to pass over you and go up for insta ram damage on the DD. New fresh absurd meta for an absurd mechanic.

6. Right, very hard. Ping-drop torps-ping... Wait isn't the same thing as fighting ships? Yes it is, same dumb idiotic mechanic.

7. As idiotic as ASW is, why not?

8. Cool, you took your time but you finally found something stupid.

9. Yeah, lets play ships tag. Hilarious.

10. Right, better start grinding one. Real one won't be a 19 pointer. 

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40 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

Giving ship's depth charges that did not have them is a game breaker for me. I know this is an arcade shooter, but that's jumping the shark. Why not give DDs a float plane?  At the same time, a ship shouldn't be defenseless. Which has never stopped WG before, as DD vs CV. I know subs are coming to randoms, but they're a terrible fit. Especially if BBs and Carriers get depth charges. 

USS_Pringle_(DD-477)_underway_in_Decembe
 

Ask, and you shall receive.

USS Pringle

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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Made the mistake of taking my Queen Elizabeth into a sub battle instead of my Leander. I've never felt more like a cow in an abattoir.

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2 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

RPF should be removed. It's a passive detection system. No ship should have it. A DD or a cruiser that needs longer range detection systems uses RPF. But 4 points can be used for a lot of skills that have a way better impact on your game.

Right now, RPF is a crutch.

Rpf was instituted a long time ago to shorten matches..... It was horrible having a lone ship at the end of the game tying it up in an obvious loss for 5 minutes, people complained how bad it would be but surprisingly it fell on deaf dev ears if you could imagine that. Many had the simple solution that if a ship was the last left detection went way up, problem is Solo Warrior would have been impossible and the running sometimes was the tactic to win.
 

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58 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

USS_Pringle_(DD-477)_underway_in_Decembe
 

Ask, and you shall receive.

USS Pringle

Yeah but it couldn't recover the plane if I recall. Funny, though.

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41 minutes ago, HMS_Hoodwink said:

Made the mistake of taking my Queen Elizabeth into a sub battle instead of my Leander. I've never felt more like a cow in an abattoir.

Used Ark Royal and Barham, (QE.)

Guess I just like to live on the edge...

In any case; more wins than losses; but I still don’t like subs.

2 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

Yeah but it couldn't recover the plane if I recall. Funny, though.

Maybe if a cruiser or battleship with a crane came along, but yeah...

It’s kind of like a division of MN Sorcouf, and IJN I-400; with the later spotting, and the former shooting.

Sure it wouldn’t really last very long, but a Fletcher island shooting with its own spotter plane would be a hoot!

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1 hour ago, HMS_Hoodwink said:

Made the mistake of taking my Queen Elizabeth into a sub battle instead of my Leander. I've never felt more like a cow in an abattoir.

Ewww.  I'm sorry.   For me personally, I always thought of the QE as Warspite's awkward sister.   

 

Anyway, I've done Leander, Fusou,  Warspite, Ranger, Furious, and HSF Graf Spee in sub battles.  Still coal.  Might stick with Graf Spee for now or go back to Leander tomorrow.

Edited by Ann_Darrow

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1 hour ago, Ann_Darrow said:

Ewww.  I'm sorry.   For me personally, I always thought of the QE as Warspite's awkward sister.   

 

Anyway, I've done Leander, Fusou,  Warspite, Ranger, Furious, and HSF Graf Spee in sub battles.  Still coal.  Might stick with Graf Spee for now or go back to Leander tomorrow.

Actually, QE is Warspite's angry sister. I tried torpedoes on her from my DD and they should have hit that Royal posterior, but instead, she wiggled as if her corset popped off and dodged them.

Then as if I did something horrible, she fired back with HE and I detonated like a lightning strike hit my scotch stash.

Don't mess with the Queen.

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5 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

Actually, QE is Warspite's angry sister. I tried torpedoes on her from my DD and they should have hit that Royal posterior, but instead, she wiggled as if her corset popped off and dodged them.

Then as if I did something horrible, she fired back with HE and I detonated like a lightning strike hit my scotch stash.

Don't mess with the Queen.

I get ya.  After having Warspite, getting QE felt a little off.  Not bad, mind you.  If I had QE first, I would have thought that Warspite felt weird instead.

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4 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Sorry to disagree:

1. New class, dpm is on the low side. Not indicative.

2-3. Maybe not as easy as airplanes. Still very easy.

4. Dying is easy in any ship in the wrong circumstances.

5. Better still, when you are cornered wait at 6 mts for the DD to pass over you and go up for insta ram damage on the DD. New fresh absurd meta for an absurd mechanic.

6. Right, very hard. Ping-drop torps-ping... Wait isn't the same thing as fighting ships? Yes it is, same dumb idiotic mechanic.

7. As idiotic as ASW is, why not?

8. Cool, you took your time but you finally found something stupid.

9. Yeah, lets play ships tag. Hilarious.

10. Right, better start grinding one. Real one won't be a 19 pointer. 

 I gave my opinion after playing pretty much nothing but subs the last 3 days. I find them fun, but yes there are some things that need changing and or ajusting. I would have to say you are on the side of no subs in game and that is fine, of course I could be wrong on that, just a guess by your post. I was like that at first, but subs are kind of growing on me the more I play them. Subs are easy to kill for any DD or CL players who are not brain dead. Sure there will be some sub players who are hard to kill do to being good and that is the same for any ship in game, but on the other hand I am seeing sub players who are having huge problems playing them and just can not figure them out. As far as giving BB and CA depth charges, thier lack of them seems to be one of the sticking points many players have about subs being in game. I have no issue with them having them and if it make some of the I don't want sub crowd chill a bit, cool. 

Edited by Gospel_

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11 hours ago, Ridlim said:

My biggest question after playing is about the sonar. It appears I am able to lock on a ship before firing the torpedo. If locked on before firing will the torpedos acquire the target?  Do I need to re-acquire the target AFTER firing the torpedos?  Do I need to lock on to BOTH the bow and the aft for the torpedos to acquire the target? It would be great for a submarine tutorial so we could actually test the developers ideas and design.  THANK YOU FOR FINALLY ADDING SUBMARINES. Can't have WWI-WWII naval battles without aircraft carriers AND submarines. 

1 "if locked on before firing will the torpedoes acquire the target?"
~I've been wondering that myself, and based upon my game play experience... still not sure, but I'm leaning towards "no".
2.  Lining-up a shot so the torpedoes are traveling on an intercept course, and then Ping-ing the target has worked best for me, so far.  The torpedoes don't turn sharply, their turns are gentle.  So a target may still out-maneuver a torpedo, even a "homing" one.
3.  Keeping the target-homing refreshed with pings as the torpedoes travel towards it has improved the odds of my torpedoes traveling to the target.  The ping/homing effect fades after 25 seconds, if I recall correctly.
4.  Getting a successful ping on both the bow and stern aiming points of a target is desirable, so that the torpedoes bypass torpedo-protection belts on a target ship.  But, keeping just one of the targeting points "pinged" is sufficient to get the torpedoes to home-in on the target.  Hits count more than misses, so a hit that doesn't bypass the torpedo-protection belt/armor is better than no hit at all.  While in-game and playing a Submarine making a torpedo attack, there are messages that display on the screen when you've successfully pinged a target.  "Torpedoes homing ..." and "torpedoes will now bypass torpedo protection of target" or some similar texts.
5.  Knowing the "range to target" is helpful, when aiming a ping.  The ping takes time to travel to the target, and *guesstimating* how much one needs to aim ahead of the target to have the ping intercept and hit the target depends upon how far away the target is and how fast it is moving.
6.  Bigger & slower targets that don't turn quickly are easier to hit.  But even they can dodge some or all of a torpedo salvo on occasion.
7.  Islands show-up on the mini-map, but aren't easily seen while under-water.  Positioning the submarine so that the torpedo travel path won't hit an island before hitting a target is important.  (I know this from personal experience.)

Other thoughts:
I've seen some people get pretty competent with Submarines (when I'm sunk, I might as well enjoy some camera-theater, eh?).
~Some are good at "point-blank" delivery of their torpedoes to surface ships and submarines.  There's no arming distance, it seems.  So, launching just prior to "ramming" seems to be working for some people in underwater "dogfights".
~Some people remember that they have both forward and aft tubes, and use all of them to launch attacks.
~Some people surface their submarine just as they're about to get depth-charged by a surface ship.  They don't take depth charge damage.  The risk is the exposure to naval gunfire, surface torpedoes and any aerial ordnance that happens to be nearby.  Win or lose, the action is bold.  :-)

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10 hours ago, HMS_Hoodwink said:

Made the mistake of taking my Queen Elizabeth into a sub battle instead of my Leander. I've never felt more like a cow in an abattoir.

I was putting my Mutsu in to Submarine-battle-mode, yesterday.
I tanked a lot of damage, and on a few occasions survived the entire match.

Point is:
1.  BB's can still contribute during a submarine battle mode and...
2.  The XP/CXP bonuses were great for getting my Commander from 12 to 13 skill points.
  Then I used Free-XP to get them to 14 skill points and add Advanced Firing Training to their skill repertoire.
  So I had goals in mind and was able to fulfill them while tanking damage and getting sunk by being focus-fired-upon from time-to-time.
After getting AFT, I managed to sink a heavily damaged cruiser by finishing it off with secondary battery fire.

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